Biofarm 2020

Say my name

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

What do they do in other countries with ground after cereals/crops have been harvested?
I think I saw plenty bare stubble ground in England one time when I was over there in the Autumn - but that was a good few years ago now, so maybe its changed?

They've acknowledged it in the press and with their epa's anyway.
In the U.S. in parts it's mandatory to have cover crops over soil to stop pollution of waterways.

I know in this county there's been spraying off of stubbles weeks ago, grass farms of 100 acres bought with 5 acre fields all levelled into one recently and straight into tillage.
I'm not going to throw stones to bring it on myself but any thought in environmentalism and soil health really does come very far down the list with pursuit of the mighty Euro at the head for the majority if not all.
We can't all be just thinking of ourselves and our financial prestige and to hell with everything else.

Say my name

NcdJd wrote: »

Spuds are still being harvested. The ground has to be clean for the harvester to operate properly. Unless you want to do without spuds in your diet that's the only way they can be taken up. Ground being bare is unavoidable when using a harvester to left spuds and other root groups. There has to be a certain amount of it unfortunately say my name. If you were lifting root crops by hand which is what we done then you would still have cover, with the exception of spuds obviously.

But due to pricing it's not financially sustainable to do this now except if your a small 4 to 5 acre organic enterprise selling online or through a farmers market. I see some of these places say they can make big money per acre, but i still question how much is profit out of their big turnover. Most people get their veg in a supermarket now. Most of the veg supplied years ago was through market gardening around North County Dublin but this is all now history unfortunately. Outlets are not there anymore other than direct to supermarkets or via a couple of large vegetable distribution companies. They don't want to be dealing with hundreds of small vegatable farmers like they did years ago.

From what little I know about science and I'm just looking at the differences with the pair of eyes I have, increased plant production to replace animal production to me will have devastating consequences for biodiversity and the soil on our planet. There has to be a balance between animal and plant based production. The two should work hand in hand. What is the land use required for the same amount of protein of a herd of 20 cattle compared to the plant based equivalent ? I may be a bit of a thick but what I see just doesn't add up.


Anyway I dont want to derail this thread, sounds like ye are learning loads

Jason Mauck is worth a follow on Twitter.
A real innovative farmer developing strip tillage, bringing back some livestock to the system and using biochar at sowing.

300 hp tractors spining around in fields of muck won't be tolerated in the future.

It'll take a few farmers to show a different way first before legislation rules it out.

alps

The gap to the road is on the low point of the field normally for these crop extraction purposes. It creates ruts direct to the road for all runoff..

Could they not have the exit slightly higher up and at least use the boundaries to "bund" the runoff..?

Waffletraktor

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

NcdJd

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

You'll have a field of ducks in that soon ha.

Birdnuts

Say my name wrote: »

They've acknowledged it in the press and with their epa's anyway.
In the U.S. in parts it's mandatory to have cover crops over soil to stop pollution of waterways.

I know in this county there's been spraying off of stubbles weeks ago, grass farms of 100 acres bought with 5 acre fields all levelled into one recently and straight into tillage.
I'm not going to throw stones to bring it on myself but any thought in environmentalism and soil health really does come very far down the list with pursuit of the mighty Euro at the head for the majority if not all.
We can't all be just thinking of ourselves and our financial prestige and to hell with everything else.

Do you reckon Spring tillage is better than winter crops in that regard?? What i mean is it better to leave stubbles unploughed and green over the winter till the spring sowing season?? I'm interested in this area for a good while cos data from the likes of the BTO have shown the change over from Spring crops to winter crops starting in the 1970s led to a big decline in farmland birds like Skylarks that depended on foraging on the green stubbles to get them through the winter.

Waffletraktor

NcdJd wrote: »

You'll have a field of ducks in that soon ha.

This sort of heavy land can't take the 400mm+ we've had since end of July (yearly average is 750mm). Road and field side drains are full, no where for land drains to send the water. Have had the mini digger out for the last 2 weeks cutting channels to get rid of surface water off fields. On the heavy (man's) land we've spent what's needed for drainage that can take our normal weather, with less rainfal the sheer volume of natural drainage channels of brooks/streams/rivers doesnt exist like it would in ireland.

The weather for the last 15 months has done the exact opposite of what's needed for growing crops.

Say my name

Birdnuts wrote: »

Do you reckon Spring tillage is better than winter crops in that regard?? What i mean is it better to leave stubbles unploughed and green over the winter till the spring sowing season?? I'm interested in this area for a good while cos data from the likes of the BTO have shown the change over from Spring crops to winter crops starting in the 1970s led to a big decline in farmland birds like Skylarks that depended on foraging on the green stubbles to get them through the winter.

Not really. There's places around have stubbles sprayed off two and three weeks ago for spring crops and others have them even ploughed already for the spring.
Saying that there's others have winter crops sown on spring tillage ground. Some will graze with a ruminant others will give it for the worms.
It's a whole mindset that needs to change.
The larger acreages of the farmers left now and so little time to get through it doesn't help. That and everyone loves the tractor seat.

Passed by a maize field as well today and same as well as the potato field. All the soil being washed out the field gap.
And this field even had the grass margin left around the field.

Any of the fields with green cover are not letting the same water out onto the roads and they're holding onto their soil.

To answer your question yes it's better to leave your field green and unploughed over winter. Keep your soil in the field.

Dinzee Conlee

Say my name wrote: »

Not really. There's places around have stubbles sprayed off two and three weeks ago for spring crops and others have them even ploughed already for the spring.
Saying that there's others have winter crops sown on spring tillage ground. Some will graze with a ruminant others will give it for the worms.
It's a whole mindset that needs to change.
The larger acreages of the farmers left now and so little time to get through it doesn't help. That and everyone loves the tractor seat.

Passed by a maize field as well today and same as well as the potato field. All the soil being washed out the field gap.
And this field even had the grass margin left around the field.

Any of the fields with green cover are not letting the same water out onto the roads and they're holding onto their soil.

To answer your question yes it's better to leave your field green and unploughed over winter. Keep your soil in the field.

I thought you weren't allowed plough land for spring sowing until sometime in the new year?

Cover crops after maize would be almost impossible would they - given its harvested so late?

Waffletraktor

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

Your mate could've asked Gabe Brown that, water infiltration would be part of the answer and................

five principles of soil health: no-till or minimal tillage, keeping the ground covered, diversity in plant and animal species, keeping living roots in the soil as much as possible, and the importance of integrating animals.

Say my name

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I thought you weren't allowed plough land for spring sowing until sometime in the new year?

Cover crops after maize would be almost impossible would they - given its harvested so late?

Posters on here putting in grazing crops between maize crops.

You're allowed plough from 1st Dec.

endainoz

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Out in the real world does bio farming keep the 1/3 of annual rainfall during the last 7 weeks away to help drilling and getting crops going as well? Asking for a mate...

Jim Cronin showed a field very similar yesterday and showed how it could be done. I missed the very end of it as had jobs to do but he brought the land back very well.

endainoz

So what changes have people here decided to do based on ideas discussed here or ones what were already in the head?

I'm definitely pushing on with lots of hedge planting this winter.

I also want to look into adding some diversity to the paddocks and Meadows. It would be overseeing though as opposed to a full reseed. I think I have a reasonable amount of diversity already but like to add some more herbal type plants.

I have been wondering about the idea of a relatively cheap seeding option to graze a field down low and to run a chain harrow over it, followed by broadcasting seed possibly mixed with grab lime and then a quick roll after.

I might not be as efficient as a power harrow but soil disturbance would be minimal. Any thoughts?

NcdJd

Waffletraktor wrote: »

This sort of heavy land can't take the 400mm+ we've had since end of July (yearly average is 750mm). Road and field side drains are full, no where for land drains to send the water. Have had the mini digger out for the last 2 weeks cutting channels to get rid of surface water off fields. On the heavy (man's) land we've spent what's needed for drainage that can take our normal weather, with less rainfal the sheer volume of natural drainage channels of brooks/streams/rivers doesnt exist like it would in ireland.

The weather for the last 15 months has done the exact opposite of what's needed for growing crops.

Did you get to finish sowing your winter crop ? Man here has given up now till spring. You couldn't see the top of the power harrow on his sower it was covered in so much muck on it.

Lady Haywire

Loved Gabe today, thought he was very interesting & had novel approach.
The one I really wanted to watch- Klaus, I've missed the majority of as the quad broke down when out feeding two cows :mad: Will have to watch back.

Just with trees, this is a great initiative done very year- https://www.treesontheland.com/plant-trees-2021

Interesting about the artichokes.

Waffletraktor

Deleted User wrote: »

Your mate could've asked Gabe Brown that, water infiltration would be part of the answer and................

five principles of soil health: no-till or minimal tillage, keeping the ground covered, diversity in plant and animal species, keeping living roots in the soil as much as possible, and the importance of integrating animals.

Our lighter ground has been no-til with controlled traffic for a number of years and isn't a problem. Any idiot can farm easy ground. We spread as much as can be got of compost/dung/sludge annually. Generally have cover crops in fields within 5 days after the combine and straw cleared for grazing sheep on over winter stubbles on stuff going spring, discs for stale seed beds to deal with blackgrass. We tried doing so with catlle but they just made too much mess for what we want.
Our heavy land has an average of £1,800 acre spent on drainage, has grass in it's rotation where the grazier can run cattle+sheep. We smash it when it's dry and leave it rough to weather down, it's the kind of ground you plough and come back in a month to combi-drill in ireland speak. It gets rotationally moleploughed, quasi controlled traffic and cover cropped for spring. In winter it becomes non self structuring clay gooo that too walk on is like wearing snow shoes and if it bakes, opens cracks your leg could disappear down in summer. These cracks are no use as it just forms vertically into pillars and not horizontally to bust compaction. To subsoil this just leaves clods the size of bales of turf with soil you would struggle to work to powder with a sledgehammer and an hours free time, tilt is long gone out the window.
Don't come at me with preachy wishy washy nonsense without real world experience of what to do to put it in practice please , magic bullets don't exist.

Waffletraktor

NcdJd wrote: »

Did you get to finish sowing your winter crop ? Man here has given up now till spring. You couldn't see the top of the power harrow on his sower it was covered in so much muck on it.

We went too early and got most of it in, we need 8-9 days but just got beaten by weather. That image was after a kv ts evo on a 7530 with 900's on the back on a wet headland. Was a lovelly seed bed(beans) until the tap in the sky was left going.

Waffletraktor

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Don't come at me with preachy wishy washy nonsense without real world experience of what to do to put it in practice please , magic bullets don't exist.

As Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or cannot, you're right.

You're not Gabe Browns neighbour are you?

Say my name

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or cannot, you're right.

You're not Gabe Browns neighbour are you?

What do you make of it so far today?

Say my name

Say my name wrote: »

What do you make of it so far today?

Loving Nicole Masters. Have heard GB's presentation a few times. I was expecting less of the technical HM spiel from Christopher Cook and more actual on farm stuff tbh.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Our lighter ground has been no-til with controlled traffic for a number of years and isn't a problem. Any idiot can farm easy ground. We spread as much as can be got of compost/dung/sludge annually. Generally have cover crops in fields within 5 days after the combine and straw cleared for grazing sheep on over winter stubbles on stuff going spring, discs for stale seed beds to deal with blackgrass. We tried doing so with catlle but they just made too much mess for what we want.
Our heavy land has an average of £1,800 acre spent on drainage, has grass in it's rotation where the grazier can run cattle+sheep. We smash it when it's dry and leave it rough to weather down, it's the kind of ground you plough and come back in a month to combi-drill in ireland speak. It gets rotationally moleploughed, quasi controlled traffic and cover cropped for spring. In winter it becomes non self structuring clay gooo that too walk on is like wearing snow shoes and if it bakes, opens cracks your leg could disappear down in summer. These cracks are no use as it just forms vertically into pillars and not horizontally to bust compaction. To subsoil this just leaves clods the size of bales of turf with soil you would struggle to work to powder with a sledgehammer and an hours free time, tilt is long gone out the window.
Don't come at me with preachy wishy washy nonsense without real world experience of what to do to put it in practice please , magic bullets don't exist.

+1.
Easy for lads to wax lyrical about soil conservation (etc) when on boys ground and a dry climate.
We have been soil farming here for over a decade. Last Autumn/Winter all that was forgotten about, ploughs tackled on 900s fitted on tractors, and mauled in the crops.

I can see that the posters here are taken by the novelty of soil conservation but there are many more things that can be put in place that are equally (or more) important than DD, CC, CTF etc.

Waffletraktor

Deleted User wrote: »

As Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or cannot, you're right.

You're not Gabe Browns neighbour are you?

I don't think you have any institutional knowledge to even understand half of what i told you, do you. We've been doing your spiel for years, it doesn't always work.

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

+1.
Easy for lads to wax lyrical about soil conservation (etc) when on boys ground and a dry climate.
We have been soil farming here for over a decade. Last Autumn/Winter all that was forgotten about, ploughs tackled on 900s fitted on tractors, and mauled in the crops.

I can see that the posters here are taken by the novelty of soil conservation but there are many more things that can be put in place that are equally (or more) important than DD, CC, CTF etc.

Get me 30,000 tons of shyte a year and a few million tons of sand and we'd have a farm worthy of getting people to come and wax lyrically about.

Say my name

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I don't think you have any institutional knowledge to even understand half of what i told you, do you. We've been doing your spiel for years, it doesn't always work.

Ah jasus.

Sign up to feck to watch the speakers.
Gwan you know you want to.
John Kempf on the Friday and John Geraghty on finding biological ways to beat flooding should be worth it alone.

Gawddawggonnit

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Get me 30,000 tons of shyte a year and a few million tons of sand and we'd have a farm worthy of getting people to come and wax lyrically about.

Yep.
I’ve completely changed my thinking on tillage.
I think the most sustainable way are mixed farming enterprises. We have between 3-5000t of fym plus duck shyte and poultry litter to apply every year. We honestly couldn’t manage without it. Land that was only 5yrs in DD, no-till, CC etc that was ploughed last Autumn had about 5-6 inches of pure black soil on top. You could see it plainly in the furrow wall.

NcdJd

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yep.
I’ve completely changed my thinking on tillage.
I think the most sustainable way are mixed farming enterprises. We have between 3-5000t of fym plus duck shyte and poultry litter to apply every year. We honestly couldn’t manage without it. Land that was only 5yrs in DD, no-till, CC etc that was ploughed last Autumn had about 5-6 inches of pure black soil on top. You could see it plainly in the furrow wall.

Black gold.

Waffletraktor

Say my name wrote: »

Ah jasus.

Sign up to feck to watch the speakers.
Gwan you know you want to.
John Kempf on the Friday and John Geraghty on finding biological ways to beat flooding should be worth it alone.

It's so abnormally wet, we got the mower stuck last week. It'd usually go anywhere!!

Say my name

Waffletraktor wrote: »

It's so abnormally wet, we got the mower stuck last week. It'd usually go anywhere!!

Ah ffs!!

Recreational fossil fuel usage.

* There's either winter with northerlies or high pressure arriving on the 20th.

Water John

endainoz wrote: »

So what changes have people here decided to do based on ideas discussed here or ones what were already in the head?

I'm definitely pushing on with lots of hedge planting this winter.

I also want to look into adding some diversity to the paddocks and Meadows. It would be overseeing though as opposed to a full reseed. I think I have a reasonable amount of diversity already but like to add some more herbal type plants.

I have been wondering about the idea of a relatively cheap seeding option to graze a field down low and to run a chain harrow over it, followed by broadcasting seed possibly mixed with grab lime and then a quick roll after.

I might not be as efficient as a power harrow but soil disturbance would be minimal. Any thoughts?

Have a dairying neighbour, would have been simply inproving/reseeding. He ran a leveller over it about fives times, scattered seed and rolled it and it did fine. He didn't want to kill all the old grass, just stunt it and raise a bit of red for the new seed.

wrangler

endainoz wrote: »

So what changes have people here decided to do based on ideas discussed here or ones what were already in the head?

I'm definitely pushing on with lots of hedge planting this winter.

I also want to look into adding some diversity to the paddocks and Meadows. It would be overseeing though as opposed to a full reseed. I think I have a reasonable amount of diversity already but like to add some more herbal type plants.

I have been wondering about the idea of a relatively cheap seeding option to graze a field down low and to run a chain harrow over it, followed by broadcasting seed possibly mixed with grab lime and then a quick roll after.

I might not be as efficient as a power harrow but soil disturbance would be minimal. Any thoughts?

I don't think Granlime at time of sowing is available quick enough to neutralise the ph of the rotting material that's affecting germination. I believe it should be spread 3wks before sowing, It has to breakdown and spread through the soil before it's available to the seed, where as if you put 1ton/acre of ground lime, it leaves a lot of lime in the top couple inches immediately and available to neutralise the debris.
I often saw grains of granlime n the field a month after spreading, That's no help to breaking down the debris, maybe I'm buying rubbish granlime