Remembrance Sunday and no Poppy thread?

Junkyard Tom

It's no surprise that those who call for a nuanced view of the centuries of colonialist violence and oppression are the same types who are quick to label resistance to it as 'terrorism'.

weldoninhio

coolbeans wrote: »

Sidestepping the point and not so skillfully I see.

You had a point??

weldoninhio

saabsaab wrote: »

By your definition Tom Barry the most successful IRA commander in the war of independence would be a quisling and traitor! You must know that you were overstating the case somewhat at least?

He was a quisling. He more than likely knew it and wanted to make amends.

theological

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's no surprise that the same types who call for a nuanced view of the centuries of colonialist violence and oppression are the same types who are quick to label resistance to it as 'terrorism'.

I'm not suggesting that violence and oppression shouldn't be condemned irrespective of where it comes from. I'm simply suggesting that it isn't as simple as saying "good guys" and "bad guys" in a black and white way because history rarely works that way.

You're also making the assumption that everyone who arrived from Britain (at various points in Irish history) were indeed violent oppressors which I doubt to be the case.

saabsaab

weldoninhio wrote: »

He was a quisling. He more than likely knew it and wanted to make amends.

I've heard it all now. I doubt you'd get any Republican to agree with you.

Junkyard Tom

Lots of salty tears across the water over a National Trust report highlighting the links between British Big Houses and slavery.


twitter.com/christopherhope

Is that Mcbride song not an Australian one?

Snickers Man

weldoninhio wrote: »

He was a quisling. He more than likely knew it and wanted to make amends.

How many "Freedom Fighters" in history can you name who served in the very army whom they fought against on their 'own' country's behalf?

Here's a few off the top of my head:
George Washington - served in the British Army against the French only to ally WITH the French to gain independence for the US from the British
Ahmed Ben Bella - twice decorated for bravery in the French army in WWII before leading the FLN to achieve independence for Algeria
Moshe Dayan - Famous one-eyed Israeli general, lost his eye while serving in the British Army in Lebanon in WWII. In order to enlist, he had to be released from jail where the British had imprisoned him for his actions on behalf of the Jewish underground movement in Palestine, the Hagannah.
Chin Peng - Fought in the British backed Malayan People's Army against the Japanese in WWII. Then fought against the British in the communist insurgency in Malaya in the 1950s.
Then you could throw in any number of Irishmen: Tom Barry, Emmet Dalton, numerous others from the War of Independence era. You could even throw in Hugh O'Neill, Earl of Tyrone if you wanted to stretch a point.

weldoninhio

Snickers Man wrote: »

How many "Freedom Fighters" in history can you name who served in the very army whom they fought against on their 'own' country's behalf?

Here's a few off the top of my head:
George Washington - served in the British Army against the French only to ally WITH the French to gain independence for the US from the British
Ahmed Ben Bella - twice decorated for bravery in the French army in WWII before leading the FLN to achieve independence for Algeria
Moshe Dayan - Famous one-eyed Israeli general, lost his eye while serving in the British Army in Lebanon in WWII. In order to enlist, he had to be released from jail where the British had imprisoned him for his actions on behalf of the Jewish underground movement in Palestine, the Hagannah.
Chin Peng - Fought in the British backed Malayan People's Army against the Japanese in WWII. Then fought against the British in the communist insurgency in Malaya in the 1950s.
Then you could throw in any number of Irishmen: Tom Barry, Emmet Dalton, numerous others from the War of Independence era. You could even throw in Hugh O'Neill, Earl of Tyrone if you wanted to stretch a point.

Cheers for the list of Quislings. Not sure what the point of it is though.

Frankie Machine

I wouldn't say Barry was a quisling in the strict sense, since I think that is a conscious act of betrayal.

The reason he gave in 'Above all...' in his own words was

Above all I went because I knew no Irish history and had no national consciousness.

Which is no more or less an indictment of all the ones who died, as it is of the ones like himself, who came back. He was only seventeen, and went on to better things, for which he would rather be, and rightly is remembered.

I think some of the problem with the Poppy is how much more manipulative it is in the UK than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

And giving money to the RBL means it is not just about remembrance of people who died a long time ago. That's just emotive claptrap exactly like the sad puppy ads on daytime tv.

It's a ruthlessly sentimental money-gathering exercise.

Timberrrrrrrr

Frankie Machine wrote: »

I wouldn't say Barry was a quisling in the strict sense, since I think that is a conscious act of betrayal.

The reason he gave in 'Above all...' in his own words was



Which is no more or less an indictment of all the ones who died, as it is of the ones like himself, who came back. He was only seventeen, and went on to better things, for which he would rather be, and rightly is remembered.

I think some of the problem with the Poppy is how much more manipulative it is in the UK than it was twenty or thirty years ago.

And giving money to the RBL means it is not just about remembrance of people who died a long time ago. That's just emotive claptrap exactly like the sad puppy ads on daytime tv.

It's a ruthlessly sentimental money-gathering exercise.

That's your opinion which you are entitled to hold, you're opinion is wrong but I respect your right to hold it nonetheless.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Lots of salty tears across the water over a National Trust report highlighting the links between British Big Houses and slavery.


twitter.com/christopherhope

What’s that got to do with Remembrance Day?

Timberrrrrrrr

Aegir wrote: »

What’s that got to do with Remembrance Day?

Not a thing, the poppy thread is done for the year, now its just the usual armchair Republicans throwing in a few digs before it gets closed/dies off.

Frankie Machine

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That's your opinion which you are entitled to hold, you're opinion is wrong but I respect your right to hold it nonetheless.

Fascinating.


.

Timberrrrrrrr

Frankie Machine wrote: »

TRUE.


.

FTFY

Frankie Machine

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

FTFY

FY

Timberrrrrrrr

Frankie Machine wrote: »

FY

You're welcome x

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whats wrong in the post?

Seems reasonable reading of the situation....i know its difficult for yous to read critism of the poppy,but that seemed a reasonable/measured critism (particularly 2nd half)???

That's your opinion which you are entitled to hold, you're opinion is wrong but I respect your right to hold it nonetheless.

Junkyard Tom

Aegir wrote: »

What’s that got to do with Remembrance Day?

I was writing about colonialism and violence earlier in the thread, it's what built Britain and nobody wants to remember that.

Even raising the issue has the Little Englanders crying into their cornflakes and here you are, funny that.

Ekerot

Amazing how a little button can turn people, who'd normally be in agreement over many a great deal of things, so divisive and against eachother

feargale

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe the Brits should do the same when they tear strips off James McClean every year because he isn't wearing one.

Exactly. There's a pair in it. The very opening of this thread bears that out. I have observed the outrage at James McClean opting out and the outrage at the report of a woman in Cork wearing one. Maybe her brother was killed. Can she not honour him while minding her own business unlike some others?
Live and let live.

theological

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I was writing about colonialism and violence earlier in the thread, it's what built Britain and nobody wants to remember that.

Even raising the issue has the Little Englanders crying into their cornflakes and here you are, funny that.

Your first point is a straw man. Here's what I actually said if you want to engage with it.

theological wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that violence and oppression shouldn't be condemned irrespective of where it comes from. I'm simply suggesting that it isn't as simple as saying "good guys" and "bad guys" in a black and white way because history rarely works that way.

You're also making the assumption that everyone who arrived from Britain (at various points in Irish history) were indeed violent oppressors which I doubt to be the case.

Also I don't think it's really acceptable to call people "Little Englanders" because they don't subscribe to your narrow and selective version of Irish history. I've not called anyone any names and I think we deserve the same respect from you.

Junkyard Tom

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I was writing about colonialism and violence earlier in the thread, it's what built Britain and nobody wants to remember that.

Even raising the issue has the Little Englanders crying into their cornflakes and here you are, funny that.

who is crying? The legacy of slavery is being addressed in the UK.

It has nothing to do with the Poppy though.

Snickers Man

weldoninhio wrote: »

Cheers for the list of Quislings. Not sure what the point of it is though.

That fighting men often have more than one cause in their lives.

"We shall fight [the British] as if there were no Hitler and we will fight Hitler as if there were no [British]"
David Ben Gurion, 1939

OK, the actual quote is "White Paper" instead of "British", the White Paper in question being an extremely anti Jewish, or at least Anti Zionist policy statement announced by Britain over the future of Palestine over which it then ruled. But you get the gist. Or you should but maybe you're just not too bright.

Or maybe you have to Google who Ben Gurion was?

Frankie Machine

Jim Davidson, an interesting perspective given his longstanding association with British Forces and their veterans, and his general style of comedy.

He doesn't wear a Poppy. And he doesn't wear it for the kind of reasons I characterised earlier.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115261391&postcount=133

1. It is a money racket.

2. It is manipulative, because the increasing appearance of it on tv is driven by wardrobe departments, and not by the independent choice of individuals to buy or not buy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMfWQ5ktbNQ&list=WL&index=16

So yeah, a ruthlessly sentimental money-gathering exercise for the seller.

And for the buyer, a silly attention-seeking attempt to appear historically 'mature'.

saabsaab

You have to ask where does the money go. Applies to all sellers of badges etc.

Timberrrrrrrr

saabsaab wrote: »

You have to ask where does the money go. Applies to all sellers of badges etc.

It goes to the R.B.L, It's clearly stated on the website.

saabsaab

Frankie Machine wrote: »

Jim Davidson, an interesting perspective given his longstanding association with British Forces and their veterans, and his general style of comedy.

He doesn't wear a Poppy. And he doesn't wear it for the kind of reasons I characterised earlier.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115261391&postcount=133

1. It is a money racket.

2. It is manipulative, because the increasing appearance of it on tv is driven by wardrobe departments, and not by the independent choice of individuals to buy or not buy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMfWQ5ktbNQ&list=WL&index=16

So yeah, a ruthlessly sentimental money-gathering exercise for the seller.

And for the buyer, a silly attention-seeking attempt to appear historically 'mature'.

I don't know about JD's charities but he makes a very good point, also read the comments. Would make you think twice.

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except its not....just vague wishy,washy stuff with no detailed accounts


Is it normal for high profile.charities to not publish accounts

But they do

https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search/-/charity-details/219279/accounts-and-annual-returns

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.britishlegion.org.uk/docs/default-source/finance-docs/royal-british-legion-annual-report-2018.pdf%3Fsfvrsn%3D48d45072_0&ved=2ahUKEwiH4-a37ILtAhWHY8AKHUojDhEQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1wx48XyAgkhTumk01cTmB6

weldoninhio

Snickers Man wrote: »

That fighting men often have more than one cause in their lives.

"We shall fight [the British] as if there were no Hitler and we will fight Hitler as if there were no [British]"
David Ben Gurion, 1939

OK, the actual quote is "White Paper" instead of "British", the White Paper in question being an extremely anti Jewish, or at least Anti Zionist policy statement announced by Britain over the future of Palestine over which it then ruled. But you get the gist. Or you should but maybe you're just not too bright.

Or maybe you have to Google who Ben Gurion was?

Whats the founder of the Israeli state got to do with Irish Quislings?