Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Fandymo

Some amount of LV fans out for a “nothing story”. Must be a very worrying time for them.

Larbre34

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s really not a good look. Call off the dogs of war.

The pups of pique more like.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A system that see's 7000 members ignored in favour of 3000 ain't democratic no matter how you write it up. So stop calling it that.

They weren't ignored,their members vote on the rules at their Ard Fheis
Their members also vote for the Dáil and council candidates and agree that the parliamentary party who have to work with a new leader are best placed to have a bigger say in his/her election
But every step of the way the decisions are rooted in party member decisions,who also decide the delegates sent to the Ard Fheis that can change those rules
Those members decided it was important that those working directly with a new leader have a bigger say in who that is

How rooted to the members is Sinn Féins structures in comparison? I would suggest it's structured differently but similarally with members knowing and accepting for the most part the weightings ye apply including accepting no election/ordaining a leader from the top
I've no issue with either to be honest
Members aren't members for the cod

FrancieBrady

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Why do you not care about how one party leader is selected, yet seem to be obsessed with how another party leader is? Both were legitimately elected under the rules put in place by each party, and known by the members of each party.

Is it simply because of who the person is? Very odd to keep bringing up.

'Obsessed'? This is a thread about FG. Where the subject of choosing a leader came up.

FrancieBrady

Fandymo wrote: »

Some amount of LV fans out for a “nothing story”. Must be a very worrying time for them.

They've been hand-waving this story away since it began.
It's still going as a story no matter what they try though.

Noted the poll today and it shows what I think will happen between now and the next election, Leo will lead FG back to their 20% approx of the vote while FF close the gap on them.
I genuinely hope they don't get rid of Leo, he's the best bet for finally getting rid of the power swap.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Electoral college is just anther way of saying 'coronated by an elite within the party' in the case of FG.

They have reserved the right to over-rule the membership choice. In this case approx 3000 chose Varadkar and over 7000 chose Coveney. Go figure and don't be throwing stones in the greenhouse!

We have been through this already, and I wrote a detailed post about it.

As I said, stones, glasshouses indeed for many many other political parties, like FF, Labour and SF who coronated their leader without even a vote cast.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

We have been through this already, and I wrote a detailed post about it.

As I said, stones, glasshouses indeed for many many other political parties, like FF, Labour and SF who coronated their leader without even a vote cast.

10,000 votes were ignored in FG and an elite of the party decided.

It doesn't matter if these are the 'rules' or if this is 'known' by the members...it is an elite of the party deciding. Votes cast don't matter, simple as that.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

10,000 votes were ignored in FG and an elite of the party decided.

It doesn't matter if these are the 'rules' or if this is 'known' by the members...it is an elite of the party deciding. Votes cast don't matter, simple as that.

Do you know what an electoral college is?

If you are so concerned about FG and the way they elect their leaders, I hope you are astonished and ashamed at other parties and the way they coronate their leaders like a Monarchy. But I guess you don't want to talk about that.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

10,000 votes were ignored in FG and an elite of the party decided.

It doesn't matter if these are the 'rules' or if this is 'known' by the members...it is an elite of the party deciding. Votes cast don't matter, simple as that.

How are an elected group elete?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Do you know what an electoral college is?

If you are so concerned about FG and the way they elect their leaders, I hope you are astonished and ashamed at other parties and the way they coronate their leaders like a Monarchy. But I guess you don't want to talk about that.

I couldn't care less 'how' they elect their leaders, I care about lies being told about how they 'elect' their leaders.
You can call it an 'electoral college', I call it, what it is, a method of controlling who the leader is above and beyond the will and democratic vote of the membership.
If other parties do it that doesn't change the fact FG also do it.

Larbre34

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They've been hand-waving this story away since it began.
It's still going as a story no matter what they try though.

Noted the poll today and it shows what I think will happen between now and the next election, Leo will lead FG back to their 20% approx of the vote while FF close the gap on them.
I genuinely hope they don't get rid of Leo, he's the best bet for finally getting rid of the power swap.

FF close the gap? What on earth gives you the notion that FF will do something like that?

I think it says all we need to know about your political analysis skills when you say something like that.

FF are in an existential crisis and after the Taoiseach rotates in 2022 will be so engaged in a schism that growth of their vote will be the last thing on their priority list.

FrancieBrady

Larbre34 wrote: »

FF close the gap? What on earth gives you the notion that FF will do something like that?

I think it says all we need to know about your political analysis skills when you say something like that.

FF are in an existential crisis and after the Taoiseach rotates in 2022 will be so engaged in a schism that growth of their vote will be the last thing on their priority list.

I see FG in the low 20's if the government goes full term and FF in the high teens = close the gap from what it is now in the latest poll, where FG dropped 1 and FF gained 2.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't care less 'how' they elect their leaders, I care about lies being told about how they 'elect' their leaders.
You can call it an 'electoral college', I call it, what it is, a method of controlling who the leader is above and beyond the will and democratic vote of the membership.
If other parties do it that doesn't change the fact FG also do it.

The process,all democratic was outlined to you
Those 10,000 members actually get 3 voices to change leader
Via a rule change
Via electing their election candidates
Via the electoral college system

A simple one person pne vote leadership instead,rule change, is possible if theres ever a majority to do that
There isn't
Ergo your accusation is false

thomas 123

Very hard to follow the thread with all the Sinn Fein deflection.

Rows Grower

thomas 123 wrote: »

Very hard to follow the thread with all the Sinn Fein deflection.

It's pathetic the extremes some will go to.

shtpEdthePlum

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's some reverse whataboutery whataboutery!!

What has Mary Lou and SF got to do with this??

JFC put a mark on the wall

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I couldn't care less 'how' they elect their leaders, I care about lies being told about how they 'elect' their leaders.

You don't care but you do care.
I guess you care depending on what party we are talking about.

You can call it an 'electoral college', I call it, what it is, a method of controlling who the leader is above and beyond the will and democratic vote of the membership.

OK, so you don't know what an electoral college is.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

You don't care but you do care.
I guess you care depending on what party we are talking about.



OK, so you don't know what an electoral college is.

I care about the lies told about it, to try and put yourself above others.

I do know what an electoral college is.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I care about the lies told about it, to try and put yourself above others.

I do know what an electoral college is.

Classic, just classic!

If you know what an electoral college is, then there are no 'lies' being told.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I care about the lies told about it, to try and put yourself above others.

I do know what an electoral college is.

Look,the irony is not lost,with a supporter of Sinn Féin with close ties to the Cuban communist party lecturing FG on party democracy
Its another spit out my tea laughing moment for me I'm afraid

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

10,000 votes were ignored in FG and an elite of the party decided.

It doesn't matter if these are the 'rules' or if this is 'known' by the members...it is an elite of the party deciding. Votes cast don't matter, simple as that.

In the UK the FPTP system meant in 2015 that UKIP got 13% of votes with no MP's elected. In the US Donald Trump lost the popular vote by millions but still got elected president.

So here you are criticizing the FG democratic system while supporting a party that runs its own system in a similar manner as North Korea or China and where leaders can never be challenged.

People in glass houses.

skimpydoo

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

That's not what the article said last night that was linked here.

The other article is in the Sunday Times written by different journalists. Hence why it is different.

skimpydoo

mattser wrote: »

Lads up till 2am talking bs about a non story BB. Some people.

if it's a non story, why did it not die last November?

If nothing happens, it still does not paint Leo in a good light. When was the last time an Irish leader of a political party was interviewed under caution and when was the last time an Irish leader of a political party had to hand in their phone to the Guards?

Can't you at least admit it does not look good for Leo or are you too blinkered to see that.

thomas 123

Marine Layer wrote: »

Look,the irony is not lost,with a supporter of Sinn Féin with close ties to the Cuban communist party lecturing FG on party democracy
Its another spit out my tea laughing moment for me I'm afraid

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

skimpydoo

thomas 123 wrote: »

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

The Tories :rolleyes:

thomas 123

thomas 123 wrote: »

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

The DUP?

skimpydoo

skimpydoo wrote: »

if it's a non story, why did it not die last November?

If nothing happens, it still does not paint Leo in a good light. When was the last time an Irish leader of a political party was interviewed under caution and when was the last an Irish leader of a political party had to hand in their phone to the Guards?

Can't you at least admit it does not look good for Leo or are you too blinkered to see that.

Not really
Outside of Sinn Féin and those typically virulently anti Vradakar,this is spun as a process any Tom Dick or Paddy Cosgrave could get rolling against anyone including a Taoiseach
I wouldn't be at all surprised if when its concluded,several will speak to put what they see as misinformation about it to bed
Also as I said in the government thread,I think relying on it as a political football in the next election would be a mistake as its got too many angles for the then Taoiseach Vradakar to mince it,chief among them,its disgruntled originators and of course the opportunity to highlight the advantages of getting as many to sign up to the gp contract as did

jmcc

thomas 123 wrote: »

What was that party Fine Gael had ties with again?

The Nazi Party? Fought on the same side in the Spanish Civil War while SFers were fighting against the Fascists. The leader of the Blue Shirts (O'Duffy) became the first leader of the combined part that was Fine Gael? And then there was Oliver J. Flanagan and his admiration for the Nazis "routing out the Jews" speech.

Regards...jmcc

Dyr

So the Táinaiste being interviewed by the police, but no calls for him to step down.

Standards in public office, indeed.

jmcc

jmcc wrote: »

The Nazi Party? Fought on the same side in the Spanish Civil War while SFers were fighting against the Fascists. The leader of the Blue Shirts (O'Duffy) became the first leader of the combined part that was Fine Gael?

Regards...jmcc

I think the difference couldn't be more stark
One is 80 years ago
The other is very much current
But anyway,this is veering waaaaY off topic