Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

Brendan Bendar

skimpydoo wrote: »

FF & FG let it go on under their watch.

Along with everyone else in the country at the time.

My friend, everybody at the time was‘culpable’ by tacitly ignoring what went on.You cannot pin blame exclusively on any one part of society.

It was the way things were at the time .

Trying to hang blame on politicians is way too simple.

It eventually evolved like most things do.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Along with everyone else in the country at the time.

My friend, everybody at the time was‘culpable’ by tacitly ignoring what went on.You cannot pin blame exclusively on any one part of society.

It was the way things were at the time .

Trying to hang blame on politicians is way too simple.

It eventually evolved like most things do.

'Everybody' was not responsible Brendi - that was the responsibility of those we elected to be responsible.
Turning around and 'blaming de people' just because you don't want to take responsibility is not good enough.
The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
The same kind of excusing is going on for what Leo confessed to - 'shure everyone does it, it's not Leo's fault', sorry lad, the buck stops with Leo on this one.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Everybody' was not responsible Brendi - that was the responsibility of those we elected to be responsible.
Turning around and 'blaming de people' just because you don't want to take responsibility is not good enough.
The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
The same kind of excusing is going on for what Leo confessed to - 'shure everyone does it, it's not Leo's fault', sorry lad, the buck stops with Leo on this one.

Can you point to any evidence, any at all that politicians at the time, hired nuns and priests to kill babies
Because that's basically what you are saying with this nonsense

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Can you point to any evidence, any at all that politicians at the time, hired nuns and priests to kill babies
Because that's basically what you are saying with this nonsense

'Hired nuns and priests to kill babies'???


Not enough coffee yet Marine? :D

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Hired nuns and priests to kill babies'???


Not enough coffee yet Marine? :D

No evidence so? Just blaze statements applying today's standards to decades ago

xl500

Marine Layer wrote: »

Can you point to any evidence, any at all that politicians at the time, hired nuns and priests to kill babies
Because that's basically what you are saying with this nonsense

No But Agents of the state ie Gardai delivered Pregnant Mothers into these homes

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

No evidence so? Just blaze statements applying today's standards to decades ago

Now we get a splash of 'the standards were different then' handwash.

What year can we apply responsibility from Marine?

xl500

xl500 wrote: »

No But Agents of the state ie Gardai delivered Pregnant Mothers into these homes

On a contract for death and torture? Have you evidence of this knowingly done?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Now we get a splash of 'the standards were different then' handwash.

What year can we apply responsibility from Marine?

What year do we not?
No prime time investigates during the Spanish inquisition either
Probably Spanish politicians fault

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

What year do we not?
No prime time investigates during the Spanish inquisition either
Probably Spanish politicians fault

Let's say we waive prosecution Marine, would you even accept that ultimately the welfare of citizens is vested in those elected to look after the welfare of it's citizens?
Or is that just (even) a modern development?
They are happy enough to blame the people for the Covid numbers around here, is there any responsibility accruing to the government and it's institutions at all?

xl500

Marine Layer wrote: »

On a contract for death and torture? Have you evidence of this knowingly done?

Dont be ridiculous of course individual Gardai didnt but the State has a responsibility to care for its citizens and the Politicians are the state legislators the book stops with them They Allowed it and Allowed the Catholic Church to almost run the Country and anyone who grew up in Ireland in the 50-60s knows exactly what a repressive society it was it was a sick society and what went on was terrible and a huge collective stain on the body politic

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Let's say we waive prosecution Marine, would you even accept that ultimately the welfare of citizens is vested in those elected to look after the welfare of it's citizens?
Or is that just (even) a modern development?
They are happy enough to blame the people for the Covid numbers around here, is there any responsibility accruing to the government and it's institutions at all?

I've no problem with the states retrospective responsibility
But this notion you're propagating that they were doing it professly for the outcomes we now know about rather than societies requirements at the time is just nonsense

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

I've no problem with the states retrospective responsibility
But this notion you're propagating that they were doing it professly for the outcomes we now know about rather than societies requirements at the time is just nonsense

Ah the misrepresentation we are all so familiar with. At no point did I say that they were doing it for the outcomes we know about now.


You are outright lying now.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Everybody' was not responsible Brendi - that was the responsibility of those we elected to be responsible.
Turning around and 'blaming de people' just because you don't want to take responsibility is not good enough.
The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
The same kind of excusing is going on for what Leo confessed to - 'shure everyone does it, it's not Leo's fault', sorry lad, the buck stops with Leo on this one.

When I say ‘everybody’ Francie , I mean is that ‘society’ and the ethos of the time allowed this stuff to happen.

The conditions which allowed these actions to occur were accepted in the society which existed at the time.

You must understand that what was completely normal and accepted in different eras would not be tolerated or accepted in today’s society.

There are numerous examples of this over the decades and to hang the ‘blame’ on a particular coterie, whilst accepting that some played a bigger part than others is frankly foolish.

Do you think that all the stuff which we accept and treat as normal today will be all accepted as normal in 2031 or 2041.

Go way out a that Francie and take off the auld wind-swept goggles off yersel.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah the misrepresentation we are all so familiar with. At no point did I say that they were doing it for the outcomes we know about now.


You are outright lying now.

This is All off topic, but why then are you referring to political parties when the retrospective body is a neutral one, owned by us all, the state
You are too fond of the lie word, you use it when you don't like the reply or reaction
I can only tell you what I think, the word opinion is in the forum title

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

When I say ‘everybody’ Francie , I mean is that ‘society’ and the ethos of the time allowed this stuff to happen.

The conditions which allowed these actions to occur were accepted in the society which existed at the time.

You must understand that what was completely normal and accepted in different eras would not be tolerated or accepted in today’s society.

There are numerous examples of this over the decades and to hang the ‘blame’ on a particular coterie, whilst accepting that some played a bigger part than others is frankly foolish.

Do you think that all the stuff which we accept and treat as normal today will be all accepted as normal in 2031 or 2041.

Go way out a that Francie and take off the auld wind-swept goggles off yersel.

So can you predict when 'leaking documents you believe to be confidential' will not be acceptable to FF FG and Greens?

Seems to me the old codgers of the power swap want to be able to throw the old hands up every time they are caught out and blame the 'times' or 'shure everyone is doing it' or anything else that removes any responsibility from themselves.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

This is All off topic, but why then are you referring to political parties when the retrospective body is a neutral one, owned by us all, the state
You are too fond of the lie word, you use it when you don't like the reply or reaction
I can only tell you what I think, the word opinion is in the forum title

Not fond of the lie word...but you did lie to try and win an argument.
If you didn't lie, show me where I said the following:

That anyone

Marine Layer wrote:

Hired nuns and priests to kill babies

or:

Marine Layer wrote:

that they were doing it professly for the outcomes we now know about

They are lies Marine Layer, nothing more and nothing less and despicable debating tbh.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So can you predict when 'leaking documents you believe to be confidential' will not be acceptable to FF FG and Greens?

Seems to me the old codgers of the power swap want to be able to throw the old hands up every time they are caught out and blame the 'times' or 'shure everyone is doing it' or anything else that removes any responsibility from themselves.

Fairly crude attempt at deflection, and ignorance of the big picture.

But we are used to that attitude from those quarters.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They are lies Marine Layer, nothing more and nothing less and despicable debating tbh.

Asking a question is a lie now?
Theres a new one
Soon you'll have me agree'ing with Brendan,that theres a lot of pent up anger here as we near the end of this boxset minus your prefered outcome

Bubbaclaus

Have we managed to pin the entire existence of Mother & Baby homes on Varadkar yet?

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Fairly crude attempt at deflection, and ignorance of the big picture.

But we are used to that attitude from those quarters.

Deflect?, it's bang on topic Brendi.

We have a Tanaiste confessing to wrongdoing some think he should face sanction for.
As you abdicated responsibility for past wrongdoings by the power swap by saying it wasn't thought of as a wrong at the time, I asked you when you envisaged leaking a document you knew to be confidential would be seen as a wrong and sanctionable offence?

FrancieBrady

You asked me to evidence something I never said. Shameful Marine, fecking shameful.

Marine Layer wrote: »

Can you point to any evidence, any at all that politicians at the time, hired nuns and priests to kill babies
Because that's basically what you are saying with this nonsense

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Deflect?, it's bang on topic Brendi.

We have a Tanaiste confessing to wrongdoing some think he should face sanction for.
As you abdicated responsibility for past wrongdoings by the power swap by saying it wasn't thought of as a wrong at the time, I asked you when you envisaged leaking a document you knew to be confidential would be seen as a wrong and sanctionable offence?

But thats the problem with your analysis
What the state did then was not illegal
It would be now
But to be comparing mother and baby homes to the gp document
Don't go on the telly or radio with that one
Matt will fleece you
I suspect this is all bluster from you today so far because the box set is ending and the Times leaked the series finale being not the ending you want
But hey thats my opinion

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

But thats the problem with your analysis
What the state did then was not illegal
It would be now
But to be comparing mother and baby homes to the gp document
Don't go on the telly or radio with that one
Matt will fleece you
I suspect this is all bluster from you today so far because the box set is ending and the Times leaked the series finale being not the ending you want
But hey thats my opinion

Ah right...tis fine coz it wasn't illegal.

:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You asked me to evidence something I never said. Shameful Marine, fecking shameful.

Actually you did blame the political classes
Like to see the quote? AT 0756 AM :

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The political class, because of curse there was a benefit to them, allowed the church the unscrutinised position they had. The buck stops with them.
.

The rest of what you are complaining about is me asking questions,how ironic
Now pop that in your pipe and smoke it

Any chance we could get back on topic,if theres anything new to say about Leo?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah right...tis fine coz it wasn't illegal.

:rolleyes:

Nope,its not fine never said that
Don't be lying

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Actually you did blame the political classes
Like to see the quote? AT 0756 AM :


The rest of what you are complaining about is me asking questions,how ironic
Now pop that in your pipe and smoke it

Any chance we could get back on topic,if theres anything new to say about Leo?

Get off the stage, that is not saying that they:

Hired nuns and priests to kill babies

You lied, in a pathetic attempt to win an argument. Own it. Don't double down on it, that is worse.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Get off the stage, that is not saying that they:



You lied, in a pathetic attempt to win an argument. Own it. Don't double down on it, that is worse.

You care to explain how asking a question is a lie? Or why you left the question mark out of the quote
Slippery when wet isn't it?

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

You care to explain how asking a question is a lie? Or why you left the question mark out of the quote
Slippery when wet isn't it?

Read slowly and stop pretending you don't know what you did.

You asked a questions about something I never said.
You lied about what I said.

A completely dis-ingenuous misrepresentation of the debate we were having.


Standard behaviour here. Invent a strawman argument on behalf of somebody and then argue against it.
A lie and despicable.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Read slowly and stop pretending you don't know what you did.

You asked a questions about something I never said.
You lied about what I said.

A completely dis-ingenuous misrepresentation of the debate we were having.


Standard behaviour here. Invent a strawman argument on behalf of somebody and then argue against it.
A lie and despicable.

1.I asked a question
A question is not a lie
2.you said I lied about something else I said when patently I didn't and I posted a quote that proved this
3.The 'debate' in inverted coma's is all off topic in a leo vradakar thread,I wonder why
4.This thread is not about me or you
Pages of garbage won't change the outcome that the Sunday times Garda source has suggested
Thats not my fault,I welcome the process playing out whatever the outcome,it's our justice system