Your New WHS Index

fungie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969353#Comment_121969353

This adjustment was always used for handicap calculation. Nothing has changed there, so this point isn't valid.

That being said, WHS attempts to normalise via course rating and slope. Key word is attempts, sometimes ratings are inaccurate, leading to differences.

Almost all courses have massive scoring datasets but as far as I know, these aren't used to compute rating and slope. Seems like an obvious thing to add.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969353#Comment_121969353

yes this makes sense and is kind of what I alluded to above.

I agree, at the moment a plus handicap founded on easier golf courses is very different to a plus handicap having played harder courses

I think when it washes out, ie everyone has 20 rounds under the new format, it will start to align handicaps somewhat.

It’s never going to be an exact science, but it will be better than it has been, and in theory even better than congu for comparing handicap indexes and scores across different courses

mjsc1970

I agree with your last paragraph there. I think your right.

On the point another poster made re casual rounds and the affect in respect of low amateur utilizing the rules to their benefit to massage a lower handicap - I just can't see how we can take casual rounds seriously. They really shouldn't be held in the same regard as counting scores in competition and the affect they have on handicap index.

It strikes me as something we've taken from the states. Should we allow gimees and mulligans next? Coz ye know, just because ?

bakerbhoy

The name of the game is putt the ball in the hole.

Before April 1st.

I was and remain 12.3 index.

CH.. 14 14 14

BLUE WHITE GREEN.

NOW

CH ..16 14 13

Just get on with it and play the game.

Free yourselves.

big_drive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972316#Comment_121972316

I was the one who mentioned low handicappers using casual rounds to achieve a plus handicap and gain entry to championship. To take it a step further I've heard about one particular +3 guy and a lot of his casual rounds are for 9 holes, played on what's seen as a very scorable 9 in comparison to the other 9 on his home course. The system I believe when calculating automatically gives you 18 points for the nine holes you don't play, so he just plays the handier nine in under par and then takes the automatic 18 points for the tricky nine where he might potentially throw in a couple of bogeys.

I don't believe casual rounds should count in any form, it's not even close to the bit of pressure you'd be under when playing well in a proper competition and trying to hold a score. And I think allowing 9 holes scores is ridiculous. It's like saying you could decide in a GAA/rugby game at halftime that you're winning so you won't bother playing the second half

blue note

The difficulty of the course is huge in getting to a plus figure handicap. If most of your scores are on an easy course you could need your best 8 to average -4 or the like to keep a handicap of +2. That's generally far harder to do than level par rounds on courses that are ranked as difficult.

Even for normal handicaps and the likes of people trying to get to single figures, I'd say it's a lot easier to do playing the harder courses.

paulos53

The rules changed last year for the elite amateur events. If an entrant has more than 4 general play scores in their 20 counting rounds then their handicap will be reviewed.

If it is found that their general play scores are 2 shots better than their competition scores then the handicap will be adjusted upwards for the purpose of gaining entry to the competition.

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973321#Comment_121973321

That is great but it doesn't do anything to address the fact that it's easier to get a very low handicap on a course that's ranked as difficult.

Innish_Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973048#Comment_121973048

Well yes I agree it has potential for exploitation - but each nine is separately rated under the WHS so playing the easier or harder nine should to some extent be considered by the 9 hole rating.

I think no matter what the handicap system there will always be examples of people who "game" the system but in my experience the vast majority of golfers do not. Maybe I'm a bit naive but in my opinion a person who is manipulating this current system would also have been/found a way to do the same with the old system.

Also on the casual 9-hole example you've put forward - not quite a fair comparison, you have to declare on the app before you tee off your intention to play 9/18 holes; you cannot decide 1/2 way through to only play 9, or in the opposite intention to play nine & then increase it to 18.

SuperSparrow1500

Is anyone else having issues logging casual rounds on Golf Ireland app lately, getting 'no marker available' message? I took a few lessons over winter and game is in a much better place vs. my current index so for the sake of integrity I want to log some or my recent midweek rounds. Im not able to play weekend comps for a few months with work commitments.

dan_ep82

Club will turn off the tees when qualifying isn’t in place.

boccy23

Just checked there this morning, I've lost 2 shots on my home course (-1.5 on Course Rating versus Par) for competitions with the 95% of Course Handicap. PH of 12 now. Same for everyone, but just interesting how it will now work for away courses.

coillcam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979026#Comment_121979026

It's pretty easy to follow tbh. If you look at the course rating and par for the tees you're playing then you'll have a fair idea.

As a general rule for most people: Course rating > par = you get shots. Course rating < par = you lose shots.

If the course rating = par or is very close to par, you should have the same number of shots as previously.

In my club the Blues are giving shots to people, the Whites are almost 95% staying the same and the Yellows are taking shots away.

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973048#Comment_121973048

Your 9 hole analogy is actually like saying at the start of the GAA match…. Look lads, we're only going to play for 35 minutes today

Fotish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973244#Comment_121973244

What you are saying there does not make any sense to me, maybe I’m missing something.

It’s not your eight best scores that are counted but your eight best “score differential’s “.

Divide your eight best “score differential’s “ by eight and you have your Handicap Index.

Score Differential on an easy course should be less than “score differential “ on a hard course in most cases.

What am I not understanding?

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992128#Comment_121992128

It's easier to have a low score differential on a course that's rated as harder. I don't have any links to back this up, but it is certainly my experience and similar to a few others I've spoken to about it. I assume no-one has figures to contradict it either.

A friend of mine was a member in a course that has been ranked as easy. It's short, therefore rated as easy. Before WHS he was around a plus 2, after it drifted back closer to scratch and he started to miss out on the big amateur comps. So having paid a hefty joining fee for his club, he left it and joined a hard rated course. He has gotten back to +2/3 now. But his problem was that his best 8 rounds had to average around 4 or 5 under on the course he grew up on to keep a handicap of plus 2. On the course he moved to he can average level par or even 1 over and keep a +2 handicap. Which he obviously feels is far easier.

I remember the breaking par podcast lad saying something similar about naas Vs the heritage. He had a handicap goal, he was going to miss it so he played a few rounds in the the heritage to meet it.

zocklie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993066#Comment_121993066

I've found this as well, some of my lower score differentials are on "harder" courses than my home course, even though the actual gross scores are a few shots higher.

Funnily enough it looks like i play better golf (going off score differential) on these harder courses than I do on my home course

thewobbler

My course is “easy”. Just about 6k off the tips, par 70. I’m a 20 index who can play to a lot less but rarely do.

That easy course is out of bounds or completely dead should you go right on 10 holes. It’s basically a lost ball waiting to happen. On repeat.

Just about every time I play an open, I make a counting score. Largely because I lose fewer balls.

Something isn’t right here.

blue note

I've I've heard a lot of people say that they're members of "easy" courses where they play away courses to keep the handicap down. I've not heard of any the other way around.

It could be because people don't want to admit their own course actually is easy. But I suspect that it's because the shorter courses tend to be trickier, but the criteria they use to rate courses don't measure tricky accurately.

Fotish

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012381#Comment_122012381

On the harder courses your Course Handicap ( and by extension your Playing Handicap ) will be higher.

This can make a significant difference.

For example a +3 Handicap Index golfer in our club will play the Yellow Tees off +6 while he will play the White tees off +3.

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122013317#Comment_122013317

The point I was making and zocklie too as I understand him is that the score differentials people are getting tend to be higher on easier courses. So the rounds on harder courses are more likely to be in your top 8. Whereas if the system was working perfectly they should be equally likely.

zocklie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122014028#Comment_122014028

Yea essentially, I'd have to play well on an easy course to get it into my 8 scores, but can play mediocre on a "harder" course and it always seems to get into my record

bakerbhoy

Rating based on scratch golfers.

We are not that good .

Handicap golfers are as likely to play well/poor on any course no matter how hard it's rated.

blue note

I think slope is supposed to adjust for that when calculating score differential. If not you could just compare gross score to course rating for a score differential.

And it's not good days / bad days we're talking about. It's the difference between the score differential on good days on easy courses Vs hard and the bad days on easy Vs hard. I was a member in an easy course. At one point I had 8 home and 12 away rounds in my last 20. All 8 counting rounds were the away ones. Right now I've 8 rounds on that course and one of them counting. And my mate leaving the easy club because his Sunday rounds were dragging his handicap up. That worked too.

I just don't believe the criteria used to assess courses work for the really short ones (which are always the easy rated ones). They're rare and unusual. And if you've criteria used to assess tens of thousands of courses, the criteria are not going to be geared towards the rare and unusual ones.

Seve OB

every few days I might open Holf Ireland App and it tell me there is a new update

I click on download

It send me to the App Store and no option to update, just open

iPhone……. Anyone else getting same,

bakerbhoy

Think you have to delete and reload.

Seem To recall this from a few months back.