Your New WHS Index

con___manx1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948251#Comment_121948251

What if its only a 15 hole fourball? Will it still be 8 holes ? Majority of the year in my club its 15 holes.

Innish_Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949505#Comment_121949505

From the Golf Ireland official e-mail I received today:

"Four-ball scores

A new clause has been added to the Rules of Handicapping whereby scores from Four-ball events can count for handicap purposes when a specific set of criteria are met.

The criteria is as follows:

• The team must score at least 42 points. 
• The individual player must have scored on at least 9 holes. 
• Competition Scores only.

"

If you take that as gospel - (and assuming the 9 holes requirement is based on the expected score criteria) I would think that a 15 hole four-ball tournament you would still need to meet these full criteria, not a % of the criteria.

con___manx1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949887#Comment_121949887

9 pars for a 20 or more handicapp player should be cut to ribbons for that. Hopefully that's the case. Get rid of the handicapp bandits eventually.

Ronney

What handicap are they working off…? in 4 ball its 85%, so a few less shots than normal for most.

If my partner was in for 2pts i would pick up if I cant better that in the interest of keeping up the pace of play. There could be a situation where my 2pt putt in 4 ball could be a 3 pt in singles nut I end up with a 1.5pt score….

Do clubs really play that many 4 ball Stroke play Competitions?

Lefty2Guns

Is it just 4-balls that your cut on?

I played a four man team event today, best two scores counting.

Personally, I had a great round. 42points, but because it was a 4man team event, on the card I had 36 points.

This this form of competition fall under the new WHS system?

Sausages14

https://www.golfireland.ie/2024-whs-update-resources

Course rating minus par is an odd development. Don't know what the reason behind that is.

Golfgraffix

to match the rest of the world, it’s been part of whs other than uk and Ireland since it’s launch

Sorbet

Question on general play scores - any idea whether a juvenile with a GUI etc can attest for an adult?

spacecoyote

Pretty sure anyone who's a registered player on the app should be able to?

QuickQuestion2024

hi folks, a quick one, recently joined a club and submitted my 3 cards for my handicap. I played a game today and submitted via GUI app, and it has been attested. However the score is showing as 0 and doesn’t seem to have updated my handicap. The course had 2 holes closed today due to weather so I’m wondering if that is the reason my score is 0 and my handicap hasn’t been recalculated? Sorry if a simple question but couldn’t find an answer on the GUI FAQ on handicapping.

Thanks a mill

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963248#Comment_121963248

it was a few months ago now when I researched it, but if I recall correctly, it will basically mean that

• if the course rating is less than the par of the course, then you will get less shots in future formula

• if the course rating is higher than the course par, then you will get more shots in future formula

So to expand this out, if we are both playing last week on our home courses and both shot 36 points, it’s not really comparable if one course has a significantly higher (harder) course rating than the other. Ie the 36 shot on the course with the higher course rating was in theory a better score.

Now after the changes have been made if we both shoot 36 today on our respective courses, they are in theory as good as each other

that’s my take on it anyway

Innish_Rebel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963987#Comment_121963987

I'm pretty sure yes - my son & I have attested each other on casual rounds in the past

Innish_Rebel

Holes closed is one possibility but if there are holes closed the course is probably operating under winter rules - Pick-clean-place etc; if any of these rules are in place then no rounds can be officially used for counting on the app - the club will probably delete them. We were recently sent a reminder e-mail on this (probably because for Easter break a lot of casual rounds being played & submitted).

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964924#Comment_121964924

placing on fairway only is fine for qualifying

can even add replace in the rough to that and it is also fine for qualifying

big_drive

Don't fully understand the changes that came in yesterday, but I see that I now have 2 extra shots off the back tees in my club. Will certainly make things a bit easier

Sorbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964909#Comment_121964909

Brilliant thanks

fungie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964960#Comment_121964960

Nothing really has changed though as this was always applied for whs score diff. Your competition handicap will be different but so will everyone else's.

QuickQuestion2024

Ah thank, that could be it. The score has updated with an asterisk now so likely the issue. Will double check with the club to be sure but appreciate the response!

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965084#Comment_121965084

think you are wrong there

big_drive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965084#Comment_121965084

It's changed alright since yesterday. I would always have had 5 shots playing off the blues but since yesterday I now have 7 shots without any actual change in my handicap index.

fungie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965735#Comment_121965735

That's for competitions and not WHS though

Also in the competition, everybody else would get the same adjustment so there's no relative difference. You just perceive you're X shots better off.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965744#Comment_121965744

wrong again. There is a change in the formula. It’s not just for competition.

Index does indeed stay the same, but it will be calculated based on your scores off new handicap calc going forward

REFLINE1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965744#Comment_121965744

yes but in some cases, like where you are playing an open at another club, you may have extra shots on that course that home members playing that open wont get. Depending on relative course slope ratings etc.

big_drive

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965744#Comment_121965744

I could be wrong but I interpreted it a bit differently to that in terms of WHS

Poker Face

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966190#Comment_121966190

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121965744#Comment_121965744

What Fungie has said is correct. What changed yesterday is how your Course Handicap is calculated. You may get more/ less shots in the competition you are playing in than before April 1st. Nothing has changed since yesterday as to how your Handicap Index is calculated.

Poker Face

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966130#Comment_121966130

If you are playing in an open and your are getting extra shots on that course, then the home members will also have got those extra shots from yesterday every time they play.

fungie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966190#Comment_121966190

I think you are wrong but it's so complicated.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966130#Comment_121966130

WHS is agnostic to membership and home clubs, that's the whole idea of it, to attempt normalise handicaps everywhere. Beforehand, a 5 handicap in one club might be several shots better/worse than others, assuming most counting scores for people come from home club, something that is broadly true.

REFLINE1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121966554#Comment_121966554

yes of course, that makes sense. I was basing that on an upcoming open im playing in and noticed off the same tees on that course ive two extra shots, assume because the course rating has changed? But like you point out the home players will also gain those shots.

Poker Face

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968487#Comment_121968487

It is more than likely due to this which came into effect on April 1st

"One of the biggest changes being made in GB&I is to the Course Handicap calculation. The Course Handicap calculation will now take into account the difference between the Course Rating and the Par of the course.

If the Course Rating is higher than par, you will receive more shots.

If the Course Rating is lower than par, you will receive not as many shots.

The changes will come into effect in GB&I from 1st April 2024."

big_drive

I suppose it should mean that regardless of your club handicaps should become more comparable between players. I've seen players with low enough handicaps from what would be classed as "easier" courses playing other courses and struggling with the added difficulty. You could be a 2 handicapper on the easy course but in reality a very different player to a 2 handicapper in a longer more difficult course. This adjustment I assume should in theory mean players with same handicap being equal in terms of ability.

It has also seemed to be an issue recently in the top Amatuer championships, players getting into the championship off a plus handicap. But these handicaps have been achieved through playing casual rounds on an easy home course. Then same players going out shooting in the high 80's while other genuine low handicap players failed to get a spot in championship as they didn't have a low enough index to get into it.