Gaslighting

ILoveYourVibes

Nykay wrote: »

I think it's more fun to outwit your bully without referring to the tactics they're using while you're taking them on.

I ain't got time for that.

I belt them upside the brain.

ILoveYourVibes

Nykay wrote: »

Yes but a lot of people won't even know what gaslighting is.

Manipulating someone into doubting their sanity. Manipulating someone against their own cognition.


Papal infallibility would be a great example. Its crazy to suggest that a tenet of belief must be a human man is infallible. Yet you were treated as crazy if you didnt believe it.

Magdelene laundries ..gas lighting.


Sealing of the records of the laundries .....and suggesting they are not being sealed ..gas lighting.

ILoveYourVibes

irishblessing wrote: »

11,800+ posts since May last year... Have you ever heard the phrase 'quality over quantity?' Someone needs to say it.

You must be on boards literally all day every day.

Erm no.

I actually rarely on boards. But i post a lot at a time.

It didn't need to be said really. But you said it. Well done on that. I hope you enjoyed it.

irishblessing

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Erm no.

I actually rarely on boards. But i post a lot at a time.

It didn't need to be said really. But you said it. Well done on that. I hope you enjoyed it.

Hence the reason I said what I said. Maybe when you get to a point of saying someone should spit in someones coffee covid / no covid, it's time for a break.

ILoveYourVibes

irishblessing wrote: »

Hence the reason I said what I said. Maybe when you get to a point of saying someone should spit in someones coffee covid / no covid, it's time for a break.

So who gaslighted you???

Spill we wanna know!

Necro

Mod:

Quit it with the personal comments, this will be the only warning.

ILoveYourVibes

spook_cook wrote: »

But... that's not what Papal infallibility is. And neither are the rest of your examples, actual gas lighting. In fact your post itself seems to be an example of it.

actual definition...don't worry i didn't know either until a jesuit explained it

in the Roman Catholic Church) the doctrine that in specified circumstances the Pope is incapable of error in pronouncing dogma.The doctrine of papal infallibility means that the Pope cannot err or teach error when he speaks on matters of faith and morals ex cathedra, or “from the chair” of the Apostle St. Peter

You don't think the magdelene laundries were gas lighting?

How was my post gas lighting specifically? Not sure i see how?

amadangomor

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Manipulating someone into doubting their sanity. Manipulating someone against their own cognition.


Papal infallibility would be a great example. Its crazy to suggest that a tenet of belief must be a human man is infallible. Yet you were treated as crazy if you didnt believe it.

Magdelene laundries ..gas lighting.


Sealing of the records of the laundries .....and suggesting they are not being sealed ..gas lighting.

What? It may be manipulation but all that has **** all to do with gaslighting.

I had the pleasure of living with a narcissist briefly a few years ago..he was renting a room off me..
Like, tbh for the most part I think he realised that he wouldn't get too far with me, but like a few times was trying to just wreck my head..just ringing me up with stupid bullsh*t..i was like 'that's not my problem, sorry'..everything was just manipulation..
But seeing him in action with these two women he was kind of playing off against each other was eye opening..
They were both like 10 years older than him, and tbh it was just disturbing for a finish..
When I eventually got him to move out (delicately, because at that time I thought he was a dangerous f*cker), afterwards I found out he'd broken a load of stuff too..just for the sake of it I reckon..
But yeah, everything was manipulation..

Gaslight is a good movie though..worth a watch..

I was accused of this by an ex when she completely misremembered something that happened in the past. Either I had to agree to her incorrect version of events or I am an abusive gas-lighting boyfriend.

ILoveYourVibes

spook_cook wrote: »

I know what it means. Totally different to your initial outlay.


.

I dont think you do.
From the chair of the apostle ..the pope is infallible. Its not a physical chair obv. Its Sedes ex cathedra.

Sedes (holy see of a bishop) ex cathedra (from the chair) meaning office in front of the holy see.

From his office as pope the man is infallible on any issue of morality. Since generally this is a life time position ...its rare to think of him out of his office.

This of course of the course of history has been proven false many times. But at one point Ireland was so catholic i would have you would be thought of as mad to challenge it.

Were not charges of blasphemy brought against stephen fry but 3 years ago? dropped of course. But still an example of the power of the church.

Do I think the laundries were, eh, done to make me question my sanity? No.

You have made a fallacy. Why would the laundries have anything to with you? Why would they effect you?

Gaslighting was definitely practised on the victims partic after they left and tried to speak about it.

Does gaslighting have to happen to you for it to be real?

And certainly priests did like make victims of abuse look MAD. Or make them think what happened was normal.

That is indeed gaslighting.

And the govt suggesting they are not sealing the records when they are ...is indeed gaslighting as it was from the original film ....with Ingrid bergman.


Terry Prone gaslighted the victims very definitely. As did the nuns.

Isn't Papal infallibility only around since the mid 19th century or something though?

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't Papal infallibility only around since the mid 19th century or something though?

If you want a cut and dry answer yes. 1870. there was a declaration.

But certain topics before that were things on which the pope was considered infallible. But even then the pope consulted bishops on the matter before making a decree. And i think it was only one decree that everyone agreed was infallible. Immaculate conception might have been it.

1870 was the declaration that made the pope the ruling agent of are accepted as formal acceptable beliefs of any catholic or within the catholic church. And what was heretical.

But its more like it was a slow progression incrementally to this.

The idea behind it goes back further. I mean the idea of the definition of what IS papal infallibility.


NOW the thing is .....there is HUGE argument about when and how often the pope exercises this. Some say it must be only with official invocation of papal infallibility (which is rare).

BUT others and this is used ....say its very very common. Papal encyclicals for example are often cited as infallible. By biships etc. But there is no official invocation of infallibility. Canonization for example would be an instance where no one agrees whether its invoking infallible or not.

But it IS an issue that bishops will pass down things and priests to lay people AS IF they are infallible.

So in a way ...you can think of it as being an infallible man ..WHEN THEY WANT HIM TO BE.

Or you can look at it as an infallible position. Which bishops PREFER to do when these rules apply to them!

The church floats back and forth between these two as it suits them.

amadangomor

Go on a thread about gaslighting and get the ins and outs of papal infallibility. Great

(Sorry if this is gaslighting, think it's more being a bit cranky)

Sardonicat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was accused of this by an ex when she completely misremembered something that happened in the past. Either I had to agree to her incorrect version of events or I am an abusive gas-lighting boyfriend.

So, she essentially gaslighted you? Glad you're out of that.

ILoveYourVibes

amadangomor wrote: »

Go on a thread about gaslighting and get the ins and outs of papal infallibility. Great

(Sorry if this is gaslighting, think it's more being a bit cranky)

the former is something you would need fluent latin and several clerical lawyers on hand to fully understand.

But yes its interesting.

I an no expert though.

When practiced it can seem like the church is insisting on the infallibility of the man in office at all times. Others usually on things within the church ..no the case.

Spore

Something similar happened to me a number of years ago. I was house sharing and I’d always notice that my things had been moved when I got home. They definitely weren’t where I’d left them lying around. My clothes often went missing and when I asked they would miraculously ‘turn up’ laundered! I’d fall asleep on the couch and wake up and the tele would be turned off, the light turned off and a blanket pulled around me, wtf?!!! Eventually I just had to move out of my folks house.

ILoveYourVibes

Spore wrote: »

Something similar happened to me a number of years ago. I was house sharing and I’d always notice that my things had been moved when I got home. They definitely weren’t where I’d left them lying around. My clothes often went missing and when I asked they would miraculously ‘turn up’ laundered! I’d fall asleep on the couch and wake up and the tele would be turned off, the light turned off and a blanket pulled around me, wtf?!!! Eventually I just had to move out of my folks house.

Wow ..can i live with your folks?

If i had occasion to fall asleep on the couch i would find myself rolled off it quite abruptly!

Necro

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

the former is something you would need fluent latin and several clerical lawyers on hand to fully understand.

But yes its interesting.

I an no expert though.

When practiced it can seem like the church is insisting on the infallibility of the man in office at all times. Others usually on things within the church ..no the case.

Mod:

I think you've made your point now, back on topic please.

Immortal Starlight

Went through this for years. Went from things like pretending he’d told me he was going into work earlier than usual to pretending entire conversations had never happened. Then I’d get the “oh I don’t know what’s wrong with you” and “you are loosing it” and he’d shake his head and laugh like it was the funniest thing ever. He ran rings around me and even though I absolutely knew there was nothing wrong with me when you have someone else tell you constantly that there is it’s very frustrating.
It’s chilling to realise that someone you knew for such a long time is capable of treating you like that. To others he was and still is the perfect gent. He’d get an Oscar for acting without a doubt. I’m still so angry at myself for letting it go on for so long. It’s only in the last couple of years I’ve actually come to terms with it and I try every day not to think about it and be happy. It’s definitely left a mark on me but what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger as the saying goes.

Maxpfizer

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Absolutely. More than once. Best reaction is to call them out on it directly. You just sit back and ask, "tell me, do you gaslight people often, or am I the first?". Of course, they'll deny it, at which point you say, "the fact that you don;t recognise it indictaes it's the former".

Done.

Couldn't this be a gaslighting tactic in itself?

Accusing someone of gaslighting who isn't actually gaslighting.

Even saying something like "the fact that you don't recognize it indicates blah blah" feels a bit gaslighty to be honest.

ILoveYourVibes

Necro wrote: »

Mod:

I think you've made your point now, back on topic please.

Sorryi had been asked and only responded to the asking as i was accused of gaslighting in relation to the topic ..which seemed bizaare

Back on topic.

Its more examples of PUBLIC gaslighting that interest me.

I mean personal things ..she says he says. You never know...

Trump would provide many examples of gaslighting.

He basically gaslight fauci. He gaslight the whole pandemic.

He gaslit biden for wearing a mask..then got covid.

But i mean when someone claims to have been gaslit.....you yourself can never know. Its only when it happens en masse we can know. that is what is so scary.

statto25

Maxpfizer wrote: »

Couldn't this be a gaslighting tactic in itself?

Accusing someone of gaslighting who isn't actually gaslighting.

Even saying something like "the fact that you don't recognize it indicates blah blah" feels a bit gaslighty to be honest.

In reality if you are correct it'll be denied anyway and they will in turn gaslight you once again. Gaslighting is a trait a lot of narcissists portray and they will deny and deflect all accusations that they are the ones in the wrong

ILoveYourVibes

statto25 wrote: »

Gaslighting is a trait a lot of narcissists portray and they will deny and deflect all accusations that they are the ones in the wrong

They are usually a lot less sophisticated than they think.

stoneill

Deleted User wrote: »

I was accused of this by an ex when she completely misremembered something that happened in the past. Either I had to agree to her incorrect version of events or I am an abusive gas-lighting boyfriend.

Double Gaslighting

valoren

It constantly happened to my younger brother who was groomed by his wife. This is just one example.

My brother and his then girlfriend came to visit me in London back in 2009 for a weekend. I took the Friday off and met them at the airport. They were both 25, first time in London. They were due to leave on Monday afternoon but come Sunday afternoon, with the weekend coming to an end and with me working the next day, his girlfriend said she would love to go to a cocktail bar and then go night clubbing. I was tired and wasn't interested in staying out late and suggested a quiet few drinks close by in London Bridge instead which was very reluctantly accepted. I wasn't aware of any cocktail bars but we'd see what was around. A rational type person might empathise i.e. too late, work in the morning, weekends over etc. My brother was easy going and couldn't care what we did. His girlfriend, a narcissistic type, decided to take umbrage at constantly "being told what to do". I'd asked them in advance if there was anything specific they wanted to do/see. Clubbing was never mentioned. Imagine a 25 year old Twink to get a sense of her personality. She did not like it. She was bored. Let’s do something actually fun. She couldn't see my reluctance for what it was and she'd had Friday and Saturday night to suggest clubbing and cocktails. In her unique way she became passive-aggressively difficult and volatile. She began questioning my "coolness", suggested that I truly didn't know where we could go, that considering I was always suggesting "old man" type pubs that I was boring. I was used to her being a provocative head melt as they'd been together for 6 years by then and so I didn't take the bait so to speak. It was Sunday, the place was like a ghost town and no amount of explaining this was heeded. While in a quiet bar near London Bridge, between molly-coddling her boredom, I ordered a round of drinks. She waited for me to return and then said she needed to use the toilet. Off she went and back she came within seconds. The toilets were downstairs. She was wearing heels and the steps were “too steep”. We went to take a look, it was five steps down and she was being ridiculously dramatic. In hindsight it was her way of getting attention back on her. She said she was desperate to go and so we had to leave a round of drinks behind and we left to find somewhere suitable for her to use. Outside she started an attention seeking hissy fit about how she was bursting to go. Think someone shouting loudly about needing to piss. She was after a couple of glasses of wine and it was classless and embarrassing. My blood is beginning to boil but again I keep quiet. I take my brother aside and ask that he get her to calm down.

As we walk up the street we happen to pass a kebab shop. I spring the idea on her that we will get some food in there and she can use the toilet. Problem solved right? No. She now takes umbrage at me telling her what to do. Specifically I am told "who the hell do you think you are ordering me about?". I start getting angry now, it’s clear she is spoiling for an argument and I ask what is wrong with it? She's been bloody shouting on the street, what's the matter? Beggars can't be choosers after all, go in there and take a p*ss ffs. She says it's disgusting and dirty and that I must not think much of her to be "demanding" she use their toilet. I've finally had enough and I snap back "If you had to go that badly you'd have gone in the last place". I've now taken the bait and she just goes ape sh*t on the public street. “Who the f*ck do you think you are speaking to me like that? My dad is going to break your f*cking legs when you get back home for speaking to me like that. My brothers will kick the sh*t out of you when they see you next!” My brother went quiet, his body language suggesting he was well used to this carry on. I looked at him bemusedly and said I was heading back to my apartment, that if they wanted to try and find somewhere they could or we could all go back together and call it a night. He said we'd go back together and he corralled her, now crying crocodile tears, towards the Tube station. While walking back, with her a few yards ahead of us, she rang her mother at home and said that I had threatened her and she was frightened for her safety. I said nothing as I was never intending on having anything to do with this lunatic thereafter, so to my mind she could make up whatever she wanted. She’d been volatile and toxic for the past few years and this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. We rode the Tube back in silence, her urgent need to pee mysteriously forgotten about, I said goodnight to my brother and asked him to make sure the door was closed when they left the next day.

I was confident that my brother would finally see sense and dump her. She was a narcissistic head melt who was abusive towards him and she had now been openly abusive towards me for simply calling her out. If he had any sense then, particularly given how young he was, then he'd have ended it and found someone sane. What happened in London was the elephant in the room between us. Anytime I mentioned it he would say that I was the one being difficult, that I had started it, that I was being too aggressive. She had manipulated him into believing that. He was gullible and impressionable and her innocent victim playing was what had drawn him into her toxic orbit to begin with. This was more of the same. She could do no wrong to his mind.

Almost eight months went by with zero contact with her but he remained committed to her and was clearly discounting how she had behaved and bought into her narrative of being the wronged one. I was due to go to the US for six months work and in the days before I left, my brother said his girlfriend wanted to "explain about what happened in London" and would I be open to meet? He said I really needed to hear what she needed to say and for his sake, I said I would meet. I was expecting an apology, one I would accept i.e. sorry I lost the head, won't happen again. We all act stupidly on occasion but we have the capacity to apologise when required. I didn't get an apology. My brother was gas lighted and she intended to try the same tactic on me. She said she had acted out that night because she was nearly raped while on holiday in Turkey two years before. Her reaction in London was thus a consequence of that traumatic experience. This was news to my brother who was there when it happened. The story went that they went on a night out and at one particular bar some local man was, while my brother was conveniently out of sight, trying it on with her. He was trying to chat her up, making sexually suggestive gestures whenever my brother was either in the toilet or at the bar. This guy just wouldn't take the hint, was sexually harassing her and he ended up following her into the toilet where she had to lock herself into a cubicle to escape him while he banged continuously on the door. She wasn't sure whether he wanted to rape or kill her. Eventually he gave up and left. She never told my brother what happened as she said he might get into trouble for confronting him.

I remember her giving a vague description of him to my brother to try and jog his memory but he couldn't recall him, hadn’t noticed anything untoward at all and, given how protective he was towards her, he was put out about his apparent failure to protect her from a sexual predator. The gas lighting part is her making up a situation (which didn't happen) where he failed to protect her (which wasn't true) that under such manipulation she was grooming him to be more accepting of her obviously made up story i.e. I wasn't there to protect you but by believing what you say happened I am making amends for that failure. It was only in the past week that she finally divulged this to him and now that he had a convenient explanation for her conduct in London, I was to be told this yarn as well. So, expressly to avoid accountability, her hissy fit was now defined as a post-traumatic stress reaction because she was asked to use a toilet in a Turkish kebab shop. The prospect of lurking sexual predators had resulted in her verbally attacking me and threatening me with violent retribution from her family. I started to question her with the most prescient one being why this wasn't explained at the time or in the intervening months since? I asked why she stayed in a bar where she was, per her, being continually harassed and didn't simply leave? My brother started taking umbrage at me daring to question her at all. She was being an attention seeking tantrum throwing idiot because she wasn't getting her way but he was invested in her "I coulda been raped!" story now as it explained her toxic behaviour. I was angry that she'd managed to manipulate my brother into believing her latest victim playing story, he knew what and how it happened and knew how inappropriate it was. Ultimately, for his sake I forgot about it and maintained contact thereafter. That's just one example of the mind job she's done on him.

katiek102010

Immortal Starlight wrote: »

Went through this for years. Went from things like pretending he’d told me he was going into work earlier than usual to pretending entire conversations had never happened. Then I’d get the “oh I don’t know what’s wrong with you” and “you are loosing it” and he’d shake his head and laugh like it was the funniest thing ever. He ran rings around me and even though I absolutely knew there was nothing wrong with me when you have someone else tell you constantly that there is it’s very frustrating.
It’s chilling to realise that someone you knew for such a long time is capable of treating you like that. To others he was and still is the perfect gent. He’d get an Oscar for acting without a doubt. I’m still so angry at myself for letting it go on for so long. It’s only in the last couple of years I’ve actually come to terms with it and I try every day not to think about it and be happy. It’s definitely left a mark on me but what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger as the saying goes.

So sorry you went through that. It sounds like a horrific experience. Glad you got out.

chooseusername

chooseusername wrote: »

Gaslighters-
can sometimes claim to be victims of gaslighting.

DeanAustin wrote: »

I’m not sure if you’re on the wind up or not but it’s a very fair point. In my case, I was (am) going through a marriage breakdown so a lot of stuff gets thrown around and we inevitably had arguments over some stuff that happened because I had one view and she had another view.

I’ve asked myself the question about whether I was guilty of gaslighting her and I can hand on heart say I’ve never once made something up or never once denied something happened that actually happened. I can prove, through stuff that’s been written, that my ex-wife can’t say the same thing. That doesn’t mean I’ve always behaved in a way that I’m proud of but I’ve never lied and throughout this whole sorry mess, that’s been something I’ve clung to. If this goes the whole way to court, I don’t have to lie or try to cover my lies.

Not on a wind up,
I've seen a family torn apart by accusations of gaslighting, by someone
who ticked a good few boxes themselves.

CalamariFritti

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Are you sure you're not imagining it?

Not bad for a turing bot.

Maxpfizer

statto25 wrote: »

In reality if you are correct it'll be denied anyway and they will in turn gaslight you once again. Gaslighting is a trait a lot of narcissists portray and they will deny and deflect all accusations that they are the ones in the wrong

I have found, in online spaces, that a lot of people make an accusation of "gaslighting" to avoid accepting that they are wrong about something.

I think it can be interesting when you have a 3rd party involved, say an online psychology blog or something like that.

So you can have a situation where a writer is gaslighting their audience by asking something like "is your partner gaslighting you" which can in turn lead to the reader gaslighting their partner by falsely accusing them of gaslighting.

Then I suppose you could have someone else coming along to say "gaslighting isn't a thing" which is actually just ANOTHER disguised form of gaslighting.

Definitely when discussing this online there is a real element of only hearing one side of any given story. I'm always wary of people who seem to have a perfect psychological analysis of their opponent or antagonist or enemy in their own personal situation.