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Post pics of your watches Part II
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59003
That seems to have been the idea alright. Catch minor ingress before it gets major. If it failed entirely they'd know quick enough. In most cases the military dive teams would be, well teams so the buddy system would be in play.On the internal moisture indicator, is that not just a bit too late? Is it a ' hello user,you've left the crown out and then gone for a swim' indicator. I suppose the sooner you get it stripped and serviced the better.
Materials seems to have been the main issue in the very early days of "waterproofing". They didn't have rubber or the type of rubber required for such seals, so used a combination of extremely fine metal to metal tolerances usually with deeply threaded cases and seals of impregnated leather and lead. They were using lead seals well into the 1940's as two of my German military issued examples still have them.From an engineering perspective how difficult is it seal a watch for submersion? Cousteau and Gagnan came up with the aqualung in '43 and scuba kicked off in the Fifties. Dive watches followed as the sport took off and the equipment developed to extend dive duration and depth. The watch being used for risk management meant it was pretty important that it stayed functioning whilst underwater. A canteen crown is a good start, sealing a pressfit crystal probably a bit more challenging.
Oddly enough sealing the crystal didn't seem to be a big issue for them. The biggest issue was the stem/crown. This was solved back in the 19th century with like you say screw on covers for the crowns on "Explorer" pocketwatches. That was still in use into the 1950's and the British "Panerai" type was one of those cases with a Longines movement and lugs welded on. The first screwdown crown alos on pocketwatches came along in the 1880's but it had issues as it didn't have a clutch.
The first decent attempt at water resistance was the Borgel case. Here's one of my examples.
Where the caseback is deleted entirely and the whole movement is incased in a deep threaded case and the bezel and crystal seals the front. When new these would have been perfectly splash proof and would have likely survived a dunking in a river. Indeed one advert for the case told a tale of a pocketwatch example that had lain in a river for weeks and though it had corroded shut the movement was working and keeping time. As it happens surviving Trench watches in Borgel cases tend to have better preserved movements.
The first truly waterproof wristwatch the Tavannes "Submarine"(also the first antimagnetic watch) of 1917 had a screwback and front and a compressed by a thread seal in the pendant. This had the advantage that unlike the screwdown crown it remained watertight when winding or setting.
Another was the Depollier case of 17 which had the screwback and front, a very inventive way of sealing the crystal by pressure at assembly, to the degree they claimed it would resist gas. An issue in the trenches. The crown was a screwdown bayonet affair.
Then the brands went for the "hermetic" style case, where the whole watch including crown was encased in a screwed outer case. This worked well, for a while, but having to unscrew the case every day to wind and set it meant the metal to metal seals wore quickly. The cases being usually silver didn't help. The first true dive watch designed for that specific purpose was the Omega Marine of 1932 used this principle in a Tank style watch, where an inner case with the movement and dial slid into an outer case where it was locked tight.
The Rolex Oyster of the late 20's finally solved the screwdown crown problems by buying an existing patent and Rolex's own engineers perfected it. But until they came out with their version of the automatic movement the crowns tended to wear quickly because of winding.
Diving was not on anyone but Omega's radar at that time. That came later with WW2, but the designs were large, utilitarian and not "sporty" and most of all didn't have any way to time a dive precisely. The dive watch we think of today originated with Blancpain, who used a Longines idea of a rotating bezel to time dives. Longines had patented and used the rotating bezel on their pilots watches of the 20's and 30's for navigation timing.
A Longines "dive watch" of the late 30's that wasn't one
Again sadly, NOT my watch. The bezel could also be locked on those particular examples, something that the early dive watches of later years never seemed to consider in the design.
But it took BP to have the lightbulb moment. Omega, Rolex and Longines(ironically) copied BP's design and gave us the (diver)Seamaster, the Sub and the Skindiver.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
It seemed to work well enough NJ, at least for the standards of the time such as they weren't.I can't imagine a time when lead was your best option for a watch seal. Vanishingly few people were divers and what divers were around were mostly connected to a surface air supply. People would take watches off before swimming or bathing as a matter of course to protect what was an expensive purchase for most working men. So "waterproof" was more like splashproof and would take an occasional dunking. 20ATM rating today I suppose? A fair number of watches advertised as "waterproof" used it as a material. Most have long since been replaced by rubber in the interim during services, but occasionally you see one were the original lead "O ring" survived. Like this one of mine.
TBH I only noticed it because of its lack of lustre and grey tone compared to the base steel. There was a newer rubber seal sat on top of it.
I presume when the seals were new they were lead wire, circular in cross section and compressed into place by the caseback. Being such a ductile material it should provide a decent enough seal alongside the threaded caseback.
I know, just a little mad. They also sold "shrapnel guards" to clip over a watch, or integrated into the design. If gas or shrapnel was hitting your watch, well it really doesn't bear thinking about.I think if you are being Chlorine gassed in the trenches, watch corrosion is the least of your problems.
Though as usual the horrors of war drove so much innovation and technology we take for granted. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59003
That's a lot of it too NJ. The water resistant ratings have become a bit of a marketing arms race. In my humble once watch design got to a point of say 50ATM "waterproof"(even 20ATM) reliably, outside of actual specialised pursuits like diving it was all just numbers. So the lead seal on the 80 year old watch was "waterproof" enough for the average man of the time and what he needed. I've worn that particular watch when going fishing in rivers, catching and releasing fish and it's definitely been splashed and even under water at times and held up fine even all these years later. I've also worn it for a couple of outings of clay pigeon shooting(and missing at firstand of course a human has no need of that kind of depth rating.) and no bother. A couple of weeks ago I replaced my car's brake pads using a dakadaka impact driver to get the wheel nuts off(cos lazy) and again no bother. Well it was a specific German design for a military watch, stamped on the back DH(with a serial number) which stood for Dienstuhr Heer "Service watch army" and the specs called for waterproof, antimagnetic and shockproof with a radium luminous black dial and running subseconds. And then you hear of guys wearing nice quality watches, even mad expensive brands crapping out after a couple of rounds of golf. Eh... wut?
One thing I did notice about the lead seal was it's "sticky" for the real want of a better word. If I remove it and tighten down the case back, you can unscrew it with a thumbnail. With the old and worn lead back in it is significantly tighter and needs a caseback tool and some grunting to open it.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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I threw this on this morning, a Scubapro Meridian. I own a fair bit of kit with Scubapro written on it. This, I snagged on eBay for £50, new 12 years ago they were £1100, I guess it's not an investment piece.
It does have 600 hours underwater to 70 metres by the dive instructor I got it from.
Current defect is that one of its buttons doesn't work, the backlight, luckily that's all that button does, it's not involved in the menu setting.
At a guess i'ld say the buttons are magnetic and the magnet has corroded out.
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That's a lot of it too NJ. The water resistant ratings have become a bit of a marketing arms race. In my humble once watch design got to a point of say 50ATM "waterproof"(even 20ATM) reliably, outside of actual specialised pursuits like diving it was all just numbers. So the lead seal on the 80 year old watch was "waterproof" enough for the average man of the time and what he needed. I've worn that particular watch when going fishing in rivers, catching and releasing fish and it's definitely been splashed and even under water at times and held up fine even all these years later. I've also worn it for a couple of outings of clay pigeon shooting(and missing at first) and no bother. A couple of weeks ago I replaced my car's brake pads using a dakadaka impact driver to get the wheel nuts off(cos lazy) and again no bother. Well it was a specific German design for a military watch, stamped on the back DH(with a serial number) which stood for Dienstuhr Heer "Service watch army" and the specs called for waterproof, antimagnetic and shockproof with a radium luminous black dial and running subseconds. And then you hear of guys wearing nice quality watches, even mad expensive brands crapping out after a couple of rounds of golf. Eh... wut?
One thing I did notice about the lead seal was it's "sticky" for the real want of a better word. If I remove it and tighten down the case back, you can unscrew it with a thumbnail. With the old and worn lead back in it is significantly tighter and needs a caseback tool and some grunting to open it.
Eye twitches at 50ATM (kidding) - though on the shockproofing part I think it's a lot more important (and worthwhile competing on but companies prefer to tout the "easier" WR number and just going for thicker crystals/seals/cases). Having an ad saying "our watch can even handle golfing and tennis" just doesn't have the same ring as "it can get to the bottom of the mariana trench" (even though I'd argue it's a lot more useful to the everyday person).
As for "flimsy" high end watches - I wouldn't wear my Octo golfing or doing tennis - I know they compromised elements in the pursuit for thinness - whereas a Vostok - if it stops, I'd probably bang it against a desk to restart it again - different types of watches for different purposes I think.0 -
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SNIP
Father's day?? Gotta be the Sólás
(Filter coffee, espresso, vit C and MotoGP for artsy, blurry background)
(Edit : Solpadeine not pictured
A man after my own heart!
Was gifted some lovely single origin Peruvian beans which shall be consumed watching the bikes later.
Timepiece of choice today is the Aerospace.
Happy Father's Day to all.0 -
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Got a baby for this father's day
Movement is pretty accurate - every 3 hours or so. And I don't need a "noisy lume" minute repeater now (I guess), though Eoghan here should be classified as a petite sonnerie since he chimes every 3 hours instead of on demand :pac:
edit: no coffee for me here - need to be able to sleep at a moment's notice 0 -
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Congrats on your new arrival Thirdfox We had our own land 4 weeks ago, I'm already thinking about what watches I'll give him when he's older
Congrats ElJono!
And happy father's Day to the Dad's old and new on here!
May the sprogs bring us all even more joy than sniping an eBay bid on a grail!0 -
Congrats on your new arrival Thirdfox We had our own land 4 weeks ago, I'm already thinking about what watches I'll give him when he's older Congrats ElJono!
And happy father's Day to the Dad's old and new on here!
May the sprogs bring us all even more joy than sniping an eBay bid on a grail!
Seconded! Congrats to you Eljono - baby Gs are probably "child resistant" though being able to read analogue time is useful too.
Keeping it relevant - Flikflak gets him into the same watch group as Breguet, Blancpain and Omega... Though a mechanical is always fun.
Maybe an easy to read Mondaine?0 -
Seconded! Congrats to you Eljono - baby Gs are probably "child resistant" though being able to read analogue time is useful too.
Keeping it relevant - Flikflak gets him into the same watch group as Breguet, Blancpain and Omega... Though a mechanical is always fun.
Maybe an easy to read Mondaine?
I was tempted to buy something nice this year so he'd have a birth year watch for when he's older, but think I'll wait and see what he likes in the future, then seek out something suitable from 2021. Nice to have a long-term hunt to procrastinate on!
No doubt Eoghan will have a Solás to look forward to when he grows up 0 -
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