Des Bishop falls foul of the Traveller lobby

.anon.

For the benefit of any racists who want to split hairs. A definition of racism from the OED:

Spanish Eyes

This is hilarious.

Those who think Travellers are holy and all that should live beside them in a halting site or in a house. But they won't and don't want them anywhere near them and rightly so, I wouldn't like it either to be honest. And in the real world I reckon most people think like that too. Apart from those who actually live next door and have a positive experience, which is fine, they are not ALL reprobates. But most of them are to be fair.

They don't have any experience of the real world of work, just scamming, drug dealing, beating people up and sending their daughters into early marriage without any education apart from the Gypsy Wedding fantasy, and cleaning and bearing multiple kids while the sire is in jail over and over.

Anyway. The Traveller movement has made a handy niche for itself. They can do what they like, because the R word silences any criticism now. They might not be educated but they are cute huurs.

suicide_circus

.anon. wrote: »

For the benefit of any racists who want to split hairs. A definition of racism from the OED:

Is it racist to notice trends and stats within a population?

.anon.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is it racist to notice trends and stats within a population?

If it is, then I'm a racist for acknowledging that a disproportionately high amount of Travellers are involved in crime. The thread is full of people going on about how much they hate Travellers in general though. Is it racist to call for the eradication of an ethnic group?

skooterblue2

suicide_circus wrote: »

Is it racist to notice trends and stats within a population?

Only if you notice 80% that have criminal records.

Spanish Eyes

Personally I would shiver and move if I thought there was any chance of a Traveller being next or near our house.

Go on, have a go at me, reckon most people earning a crust or stuck on the PUP think the same.

There are rarely any good news stories about Travellers are there? Well apart from the revolving door of two or three of them doing Social Studies or Racism Awareness who are then employed by the very entities that promote gagging the rest of us. Perfect circle.

Wibbs

.anon. wrote: »

If it is, then I'm a racist for acknowledging that a disproportionately high amount of Travellers are involved in crime. The thread is full of people going on about how much they hate Travellers in general though. Is it racist to call for the eradication of an ethnic group?

This pretty much. Saying and thinking "Travellers are more likely to be involved in criminality" is uncomfortable, but true and OK, saying "all Travellers are criminals" is not true and not OK.

pgj2015

You know when Ireland are playing a soccer match do Irish travellers watch it or support it? or are any of them into GAA, do they watch it on tv, go to matches etc?

iamwhoiam

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Personally I would shiver and move if I thought there was any chance of a Traveller being next or near our house.

Go on, have a go at me, reckon most people earning a crust or stuck on the PUP think the same.

There are rarely any good news stories about Travellers are there? Well apart from the revolving door of two or three of them doing Social Studies or Racism Awareness who are then employed by the very entities that promote gagging the rest of us. Perfect circle.

There are many settled travellers living quietly in houses around the country . You dont hear about them because they are simply living their lives .
A family live beside a member of my family and are polite , helpful , thoughtful and spotless . They dont get press coverage because they do nothing extra ordinary . They are just like the rest of the families on the road actually

blackbox

pgj2015 wrote: »

You know when Ireland are playing a soccer match do Irish travellers watch it or support it? or are any of them into GAA, do they watch it on tv, go to matches etc?

I'm not a traveller and I don't do any of these things.

What is your point?

Rubberchikken

Ggg we saw traveller funerals in our town with upwards of 100 people attending in the first weeks of lockdown.

No gardi , no complaints from anyone. Nobody seems to have the bal#s to do so.

statesaver

They are not an ethnic group, incestuous group probably but definitely not ethnic.

pgj2015

blackbox wrote: »

I'm not a traveller and I don't do any of these things.

What is your point?

you might not but a lot of our population do. im just curious to see if they partake in things a huge part of our population do. like are they proud to be Irish? do they want share the island with the rest of us or do they just want to do their own thing and have nothing to do with us?

.anon.

statesaver wrote: »

They are not an ethnic group, incestuous group probably but definitely not ethnic.

Whether racists like it or not, Travellers are legally recognised as an ethnic group in this country.

gormdubhgorm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Travellers have been a trendy pet group for liberals for year's

Why do you think the media tribe love them so much?

The 'media tribe' as you call them do not love travellers. They are thrown a few bones for appearances sake.

Boards.ie is a snapshot of Irish society and it proves that travellers are the last minority group who are fair game. In other words it is socially acceptable to denigrate them and disparage them.

Part of the problem is the 'traveller lobby' as the OP terms them are not as educated and integrated as other minority groups. Such as the LGBT groups of which many who are highly educated and involved in the arts and upper echelons of society etc. It gives the LGBT community a loud voice disproportionate to thier number.

In contrast the traveller lobby is weak and is not helped by lack of integration with the settled community.

tayto lover

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The 'media tribe' as you call them do not love travellers. They are thrown a few bones for appearances sake.

Boards.ie is a snapshot of Irish society and it proves that travellers are the last minority group who are fair game. In other words it is socially acceptable to denigrate them and disparage them.

Part of the problem is the 'traveller lobby' as the OP terms them are not as educated and integrated as other minority groups. Such as the LGBT groups of which many who are highly educated and involved in the arts and upper echelons of society etc. It gives the LGBT community a loud voice disproportionate to thier number.

In contrast the traveller lobby is weak and is not helped by lack of integration with the settled community.

LGBT groups don’t break into old people’s houses and rob them though.
They don’t fight at funerals, weddings and christenings either and I’ve never heard of a town having to shut down because of the funeral of a LGBT member.

statesaver

.anon. wrote: »

Whether racists like it or not, Travellers are legally recognised as an ethnic group in this country.

Racists :rolleyes:
You cannot be racist to white people. Travellers are above the law in this country.

Remember, whites cannot be racist to whites whether fools like it or not.

Wibbs

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Part of the problem is the 'traveller lobby' as the OP terms them are not as educated and integrated as other minority groups.

And where does the blame lie there G? Yes of course there is discrimination, but there is also the Traveller culture that doesn't value education and takes kids out of school early and has them married off young. Not a lot of options for third level. And as iamwhoiam notes and it has been my experience too, there are quite the number of settled Travellers out there and people who have been "settled" for generations. People who saw the leg up of free education and subsidised housing back in the 50's and 60's and 70's as a way to give their kids a leg up. I know one such family and AFAIK all of the current generation have passed third level education and are doing very well for themselves. The problem is, or at least certainly seems like it, that many of those who are left in the Traveller lifestyle have little or no intention of leaving it behind. Whether that's because it's more lucrative or the fear of the unknown or both, who can tell, but until enough do then...

And T below has a valid point regarding the differences in your example.

tayto lover wrote: »

LGBT groups don’t break into old people’s houses and rob them though.
They don’t fight at funerals, weddings and christenings either and I’ve never heard of a town having to shut down because of the funeral of a LGBT member.

Enough of a proportion of Travellers do all of the above and terrorise people, particularly in rural areas and seem to get away with it too often.

gormdubhgorm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Travellers have been a trendy pet group for liberals for year's

Why do you think the media tribe love them so much?

tayto lover wrote: »

LGBT groups don’t break into old people’s houses and rob them though.
They don’t fight at funerals, weddings and christenings either and I’ve never heard of a town having to shut down because of the funeral of a LGBT member.

So no person or persons from the LGBT commuinty has ever got involved in any fights or any criminality? Get real.
Is this your level of stupidity and prejudice?
Criminality only exists in one group?

Ever heard of Ronnie and Reggie Kray?
One a gay man and the another a bisexual for example.

gormdubhgorm

Wibbs wrote: »

And where does the blame lie there G? Yes of course there is discrimination, but there is also the Traveller culture that doesn't value education and takes kids out of school early and has them married off young. Not a lot of options for third level. And as iamwhoiam notes and it has been my experience too, there are quite the number of settled Travellers out there and people who have been "settled" for generations. People who saw the leg up of free education and subsidised housing back in the 50's and 60's and 70's as a way to give their kids a leg up. I know one such family and AFAIK all of the current generation have passed third level education and are doing very well for themselves. The problem is, or at least certainly seems like it, that many of those who are left in the Traveller lifestyle have little or no intention of leaving it behind. Whether that's because it's more lucrative or the fear of the unknown or both, who can tell, but until enough do then...

I am not saying that the traveller community shares no blame. With thier attitude towards education and so on. Have kids young etc. I view many of the problems the travellers have as similar to those from working class settled people.

No need for the settled community to put the boot in if any traveller is involved in criminality, and say they are all at it though.

I won't be alive in 50 years time. But it is interesting to think how Ireland will have changed by then. And if many of the traveller commuinty managed to get thier act together by then and improved thier position in Irish society. Or if it will exist at all.

Wibbs

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not saying that the traveller community shares no blame. With thier attitude towards education and so on. Have kids young etc. I view many of the problems the travellers have as similar to those from working class settled people.

While the working class have certainly suffered from similar and still do today, the percentage of those not finishing secondary education is significantly lower than among Travellers and that gulf has widened with each generation. 30 years ago few working class kids went to university, today way more do. The same is not true for Traveller kids.

No need for the settled community to put the boot in if any traveller is involved in criminality, and say they are all at it though.

I fully agree, however the percentage of Travellers coming to the attention of the Irish legal system is so high and the antisocial behaviour is so open and affects the wider community, especially in rural areas, it is hardly a surprise people do. Never mind that the Traveller groups rarely acknowledge it and when they do all too often the victimhood stuff comes out and people are getting tired of that. Put it another way, let's say you like eating mushrooms and someone tells you that 8 out of 10 mushrooms in your area are poisonous, would you take the risk picking any for your table? It's basic human nature. It's often not nice but it is understandable.

I won't be alive in 50 years time. But it is interesting to think how Ireland will have changed by then. And if many of the traveller commuinty managed to get thier act together by then and improved thier position in Irish society. Or if it will exist at all.

Well the Travellers of 80 years ago live very different lives to those today. Their old lifestyle and utility in rural areas is largely gone, with some holdovers of tradition. I can't see how their current way of life can hope to continue and that current way is more like "settled" people apart. How many Travellers live most of the year on the road in caravans? They used to.

Spanish Eyes

iamwhoiam wrote: »

There are many settled travellers living quietly in houses around the country . You dont hear about them because they are simply living their lives .
A family live beside a member of my family and are polite , helpful , thoughtful and spotless . They dont get press coverage because they do nothing extra ordinary . They are just like the rest of the families on the road actually

Hearsay is not evidence lol. Settled Travellers are not Travellers anymore good on them. The clue is in the name.

So the rest of them still roaming around are protected by Pavee Point, the Irish Times and so on who would have a total conniption if any of them moved in next door/apartment. Be honest now.

The CAB are on their case now, and about time too. But reports cannot mention them as being travellers, but we all know. Only a Traveller would have Rolex watches surely. Bling almighty!

Wibbs

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Only a Traveller would have Rolex watches surely. Bling almighty!

By my count you've just suggested at least four of the folks on the Watches forum hereabouts are Travellers. Hell, I've even owned a few* back in the day.







*vintage ones and at a time when a couple of hundred quid would get you one so...

mikeym

Des hasnt really done a whole lot in the last 2 years.

Maybe hes in China.

Rodney Bathgate

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

. Only a Traveller would have Rolex watches surely. Bling almighty!

Fairly tacky alright.

iamwhoiam

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Hearsay is not evidence lol. Settled Travellers are not Travellers anymore good on them. The clue is in the name.

So the rest of them still roaming around are protected by Pavee Point, the Irish Times and so on who would have a total conniption if any of them moved in next door/apartment. Be honest now.

The CAB are on their case now, and about time too. But reports cannot mention them as being travellers, but we all know. Only a Traveller would have Rolex watches surely. Bling almighty!

Did I say it was evidence of anythinh LOL . I was giving an opinion which is just as valid as yours LOL .

Spanish Eyes

Wibbs wrote: »

By my count you've just suggested at least four of the folks on the Watches forum hereabouts are Travellers. Hell, I've even owned a few* back in the day


vintage ones and at a time when a couple of hundred quid would get you one so...

Ah but how many of the folks on the watches forum have been raided by the CAB, that's my point....:p

Granadino

pgj2015 wrote: »

Im not so sure, is a kid born in England to Irish parents Irish or English?

There are Travellers in England who talk with Irish accents but were born in England, some might never have been in Ireland, its because they don't mix with anyone who isnt a traveller.

Like the Gallaghers or all of The Smiths? They’re English and said so themselves

Mad_maxx

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The 'media tribe' as you call them do not love travellers. They are thrown a few bones for appearances sake.

Boards.ie is a snapshot of Irish society and it proves that travellers are the last minority group who are fair game. In other words it is socially acceptable to denigrate them and disparage them.

Part of the problem is the 'traveller lobby' as the OP terms them are not as educated and integrated as other minority groups. Such as the LGBT groups of which many who are highly educated and involved in the arts and upper echelons of society etc. It gives the LGBT community a loud voice disproportionate to thier number.

In contrast the traveller lobby is weak and is not helped by lack of integration with the settled community.

the traveller lobby is extremely effective and influential amongst the left wing media , academia and NGO sector

there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why the media should eulogize travellers , its a rotten culture yet the media do not tell the truth about them , if someone is afraid to tell the truth about you , thats power

Spanish Eyes

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the traveller lobby is extremely effective and influential amongst the left wing media , academia and NGO sector

there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why the media should eulogize travellers , its a rotten culture yet the media do not tell the truth about them , if someone is afraid to tell the truth about you , thats power

They may not encourage education for their children, but they sure as heck have the media on their side.

A media that supports them, but would never live next to them, is that right now?