Des Bishop falls foul of the Traveller lobby

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've never understood people demanding an apology. If you have to demand one, it's meaningless.

This.

Same as someone being forced to apologise. It's meaningless in regards intent.

Slideways

The thread appears to have gone a worm hole.

I thought it was about knackers whinging about a so called comedian saying some home truths?

Pkiernan

partyguinness wrote: »

Annoys the fook out of me in England. You meet some lad or lassy on hearing me goes "Oh I'm Irish" in this heavy English accent.

Dig a little deeper it turns out Granny was from Clare or whereever the fook and your wan standing in front of me is no more Irish than the Beefeaters.

"No. You are not Irish. Your grandmother was Irish. Not you. Big difference"...:mad:

Works for the FAI when they need footballers...

Incel In The Membrane

Incel In The Membrane wrote: »

It might annoy you but if someone is born abroad to an Irish parent then they are automatically an Irish citizen. If they are born abroad to an Irish grandparent they have to have their birth registered with the state. After that they become a citizen.

No they aren't. They are entitled to it but they don't automatically get given it. Sure they might not even want it.

Neither of my daughters are Irish citizens and we have no plans to apply.

breezy1985

partyguinness wrote: »

I appreciate the technical aspects of being technically Irish or entitled to Irish citizenship. But when you have someone stand in front of claiming to be Irish but were not born here, never lived here or even set foot in the country it is tedious. No you are English. Yes you have Irish relations etc but you are English. Your grandmother was Irish but are not.

If I was entitled to say a US passport due to relations I sure as hell would not go around saying I was American.

Being Irish is more than a passport. IMO.

It only annoyed me in London when the EnglishIrish people would try be ultra Irish and spout sectarian crap or get over the top with the anti English stuff during a match.

As for voting I think it would be nice for Irish people living abroad to get to vote for the president and referendums but not TDs as long as you lived a substantial part of your life in Ireland and are not gone a long time. I'm thinking more of actual Irish born who are gone 3/4 years and may come back not some Irish born my granpappy was Irish type

Incel In The Membrane

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No they aren't. They are entitled to it but they don't automatically get given it. Sure they might not even want it.

Neither of my daughters are Irish citizens and we have no plans to apply.

If they are born abroad to an Irish parent they are automatically Irish citizens. If they apply for Irish passport they'll receive one.

If born abroad to an Irish grandparent they have to go through an extra step.

partyguinness

Pkiernan wrote: »

Works for the FAI when they need footballers...

Yeah...I don't give a crap about that TBH. Anyway, the FAI are by no means the only football association that take advantage of the granny rule.

partyguinness

breezy1985 wrote: »

It only annoyed me in London when the EnglishIrish people would try be ultra Irish and spout sectarian crap or get over the top with the anti English stuff during a match.

As for voting I think it would be nice for Irish people living abroad to get to vote for the president and referendums but not TDs as long as you lived a substantial part of your life in Ireland and are not gone a long time. I'm thinking more of actual Irish born who are gone 3/4 years and may come back not some Irish born my granpappy was Irish type

I have been living here over 10 years now. I spent the first 30 years in Ireland and always voted but I would not feel comfortable voting in Irish elections.

breezy1985

partyguinness wrote: »

I have been living here over 10 years now. I spent the first 30 years in Ireland and always voted but I would not feel comfortable voting in Irish elections.

I lived away for 8 years after the first 25 of my life in Ireland and am back now. How I see it is TDs represent the people who live in that constituency so would never vote if I didn't live there but the president is ceremonial and a representative of the Irish people so I would have voted if allowed

Incel In The Membrane

Incel In The Membrane wrote: »

If they are born abroad to an Irish parent they are automatically Irish citizens. If they apply for Irish passport they'll receive one.

If born abroad to an Irish grandparent they have to go through an extra step.

What about the irishman that lives in China and had a child there with his Chinese wife without ever returning to Ireland or communicating the birth?

Incel In The Membrane

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

What about the irishman that lives in China and had a child there with his Chinese wife without ever returning to Ireland or communicating the birth?

The child is automatically an Irish citizen as he is the son of an Irish citizen. Once the link has been proven with the appropriate documentation, the child is entitled to an Irish passport.

doublejobbing 2

Everlong1 wrote: »

Des Bishop has apparently fallen foul of the Traveller lobby

There seem to be a slew of "traveller" activists lately who don't look nor talk the part.

Touch of the Rachel Dolezal about some of them I reckon. There's money in NGO'ism.

LegallyAbroad

I've known born and raised Bostonians and Londoners with native Irish (raised by Conamara parents). Trying telling those lads they're not Irish.

skooterblue2

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

There seem to be a slew of "traveller" activists lately who don't look nor talk the part.

Touch of the Rachel Dolezal about some of them I reckon. There's money in NGO'ism.

Didn't you know there is one NGO for every 250 people in Ireland. Much the same as charities they must be a tax avoidance system. Quangos are further down the line. If you have a good enough accountant and lawyer you dont have to pay tax.

Granadino

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

I've known born and raised Bostonians and Londoners with native Irish (raised by Conamara parents). Trying telling those lads they're not Irish.

A product of their surroundings, I would guess that culturally they are American and English.

LegallyAbroad

Granadino wrote: »

A product of their surroundings, I would guess that culturally they are American and English.

It would take a brave monoglot Anglophone to tell an Irish speaker that he or she is culturally English.

I mean, go ahead, but you're going to look a little silly.

breezy1985

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

It would take a brave monoglot Anglophone to tell an Irish speaker that he or she is culturally English.

I mean, go ahead, but you're going to look a little silly.

Someone from Boston learning Irish is kinda one of the things I don't like about foreign born Irish. If the lad knows loads of languages fine but if he is learning Irish over Spanish let's say then it's all wrapped up in the trying to be more Irish than the Irish thing

LegallyAbroad

breezy1985 wrote: »

Someone from Boston learning Irish is kinda one of the things I don't like about foreign born Irish. If the lad knows loads of languages fine but if he is learning Irish over Spanish let's say then it's all wrapped up in the trying to be more Irish than the Irish thing

?

These are people who learned Irish from the cradle. They speak Irish because that was the language of the family home, and, to a lesser extent the community (cousins, other emigrants etc).

Plenty would also spend time back home in Conamara during the summer etc. too.

breezy1985

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

?

These are people who learned Irish from the cradle. They speak Irish because that was the language of the family home, and, to a lesser extent the community (cousins, other emigrants etc).

Plenty would also spend time back home in Conamara during the summer etc. too.

Fair enough. The Connemara parents bit went over my head first time round and its perfectly understandable if the parents speak Irish as a first language

Incel In The Membrane

Incel In The Membrane wrote: »

The child is automatically an Irish citizen as he is the son of an Irish citizen. Once the link has been proven with the appropriate documentation, the child is entitled to an Irish passport.

It cant be both is my point, it cant be automatic at birth and then a link need be proven. To be a citizen, the state must know you are alive and entitled to it.

The wording is messy in that regard. In reality the citizenship is an automatic right and applies once sought.

ILoveYourVibes

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

I've known born and raised Bostonians and Londoners with native Irish (raised by Conamara parents). Trying telling those lads they're not Irish.

Try telling anti vaccers they are wrong. Try telling flat earthers the truth.

TBH it doesn't matter ...its themselves they are making fools of.

We don't have to actually 'tell' them. Let them believe if they want to. Maybe it gives them some sort of false strength.

Lets just hope they don't come here and realize they don't have a lot in common with us...and prob wouldn't like it here.

We don't have to say it outright though.

Gervais08

partyguinness wrote: »

I appreciate the technical aspects of being technically Irish or entitled to Irish citizenship. But when you have someone stand in front of claiming to be Irish but were not born here, never lived here or even set foot in the country it is tedious. No you are English. Yes you have Irish relations etc but you are English. Your grandmother was Irish but are not.

If I was entitled to say a US passport due to relations I sure as hell would not go around saying I was American.

Being Irish is more than a passport. IMO.

I get my citizenship through my granddad, unfortunately my late father was born in the U.K. but we were brought up Irish; visited all the time and I’ve lived here the last 15 years.

It is more than a passport, you’re right. I love Noel Gallagher but I’d never have a butcher’s apron on my guitar!!!!

breezy1985

Gervais08 wrote: »

I get my citizenship through my granddad, unfortunately my late father was born in the U.K. but we were brought up Irish; visited all the time and I’ve lived here the last 15 years.

It is more than a passport, you’re right. I love Noel Gallagher but I’d never have a butcher’s apron on my guitar!!!!

This butchers apron crap bothers me. I've only ever heard it said by English born people trying to look Irish Infront of Irish born people.

You weren't raised Irish you were raised with a weird fake version of Irish that only exists in the children of expats

Slideways

breezy1985 wrote: »

This butchers apron crap bothers me. I've only ever heard it said by English born people trying to look Irish Infront of Irish born people.

You weren't raised Irish you were raised with a weird fake version of Irish that only exists in the children of expats

Righto, I’ll bite.

My mother was born in London to a pair of Galwegians that moved there just after WW2. She married my old man who was born in Ireland and moved to London when he was 8 with his parents.
The met in the Galtymor.
She’s as Irish as you or I. Not a hint of an English accent, called us amadáns growing up and made hairy bacon and cabbage every Saturday for as long as I can remember.

Big difference between that and a third generation Duffy or McDermott living in Boston or Melbourne

breezy1985

Slideways wrote: »

Righto, I’ll bite.

My mother was born in London to a pair of Galwegians that moved there just after WW2. She married my old man who was born in Ireland and moved to London when he was 8 with his parents.
The met in the Galtymor.
She’s as Irish as you or I. Not a hint of an English accent, called us amadáns growing up and made hairy bacon and cabbage every Saturday for as long as I can remember.

Big difference between that and a third generation Duffy or McDermott living in Boston or Melbourne

I agree and to be honest I don't mind someone claiming the heritage even if they are 2nd/3rd or whatever generation while also accepting the multi cultural nature of their up bringing.
But it really p****d my off living in London when some English born Irish person would be trying to show off to me with all this "f*** the Brits" and "butchers apron" stuff while I am sitting there with my English friends and girlfriend and then have these people despite never being in Ireland for more than a holiday tell me and every one else that that's how we all are in Ireland.

Slideways

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree and to be honest I don't mind someone claiming the heritage even if they are 2nd/3rd or whatever generation while also accepting the multi cultural nature of their up bringing.
But it really p****d my off living in London when some English born Irish person would be trying to show off to me with all this "f*** the Brits" and "butchers apron" stuff while I am sitting there with my English friends and girlfriend and then have these people despite never being in Ireland for more than a holiday tell me and every one else that that's how we all are in Ireland.

Fair enough.

I live in Australia. Lots of plastic Paddy’s here too

Slideways

Slideways wrote: »

Righto, I’ll bite.

My mother was born in London to a pair of Galwegians that moved there just after WW2. She married my old man who was born in Ireland and moved to London when he was 8 with his parents.
The met in the Galtymor.
She’s as Irish as you or I. Not a hint of an English accent, called us amadáns growing up and made hairy bacon and cabbage every Saturday for as long as I can remember.

Big difference between that and a third generation Duffy or McDermott living in Boston or Melbourne

She isn't. She's English.

Just at my kids aren't Irish just because I am and I'm not welsh just because my mother was.

MaryLouMacari

Just drove through Dunboyne about an hour ago. Coming over the hump backed bridge as you enter the village I noticed about 15 or 20 caravans spread out at the back of the railway station car park. Not another car to be seen in the car park so either commuters are driving to town or are scared to park up there while they take the train.

Some liberty but par for the course. Anyone know how long they've been camped there?

Hotblack Desiato

breezy1985 wrote: »

As for voting I think it would be nice for Irish people living abroad to get to vote for the president and referendums

Screw that. Those of us living here are bound by the Irish constitution and laws, those who choose to live abroad are not. At the most give registered voters here five years after they leave. But a lifetime right, or even a right to vote for Irish citizens who never set foot here would be wrong. We would potentially have more voters outside the country than within it.

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

I've known born and raised Bostonians and Londoners with native Irish (raised by Conamara parents).

So what. Speaking Irish has nothing whatsoever to do with being Irish.

breezy1985

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Screw that. Those of us living here are bound by the Irish constitution and laws, those who choose to live abroad are not. At the most give registered voters here five years after they leave. But a lifetime right, or even a right to vote for Irish citizens who never set foot here would be wrong. We would potentially have more voters outside the country than within it.

That is exactly what I said but you have decided to cut up my post and paraphrase me for some reason