Des Bishop falls foul of the Traveller lobby

pgj2015

Granadino wrote: »

Like the Gallaghers or all of The Smiths? They’re English and said so themselves

Noel considers himself Irish.

Ten of Swords

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

They are a blight on society.

We'd be better off if they were eradicated.

Do not post in this thread again

tayto lover

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So no person or persons from the LGBT commuinty has ever got involved in any fights or any criminality? Get real.
Is this your level of stupidity and prejudice?
Criminality only exists in one group?

Ever heard of Ronnie and Reggie Kray?
One a gay man and the another a bisexual for example.

Ha ha that’s one crazy post there.
Hard to top that.
I seriously doubt that Travellers think very highly of LGBT in their own community, in fact I know they don’t and give them a hard time.
Neither do LGBT people make up 23% of the prison population.

whisky_galore

pgj2015 wrote: »

Exactly. now I do think that he had a point that they are discriminated against, they are, and it is unfair on the ones who are decent. I saw a house lately that I was interested in buying, its a house that no one has lived in for years, myself and my dad went to have a look at it. A neighbour saw us and came over and chatted with us, all very friendly etc. Now if myself and my dad were travellers, the neighbour probably would have called the guards on us lol

A publican might see travellers walk into his/her bar and say sorry we are closed when he sees they are travellers, now the travellers might be decent nice people but it is hard for the publican to take that chance, if they started fighting and trashed his pub, people would say what were you thinking letting them in?

The bad ones really do make life hard for the decent ones and there are a few decent ones, nicer than a lot of settled people.

The fact that is a closed society, subculture, whatever you want to call it, works against it in mainstream society.

If there's traveller on traveller trouble, no guards are called, it's sorted internally. Well that's fine up to the point it spills into the streets and ends up as an endless tit for tat feuding epic. It's not dissimilar to faction fighting of 150 or 200 years ago except travellers haven't moved beyond that.

There is or was, a tradition of mending pots and pans and such like, but as we know that's pretty redundant in today's world and if you're incapable (or unwilling) of adapting and educating yourself to the ways of the "outsider" then you've a very small set of options available to you, including the grey/black economy or criminality.

FGR

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Having an Adult criminal record really screws up your life choices and opportunities.

Sadly the Irish solution to this would be the cheapest - like expunging their criminal record. Positive Discrimination initiatives too.

slipperyox

What is criteria of being a traveller?

Can you become one if not?

Can you "get out of it" if you are?

Are you allowed to park a caravan in a halting site if not a traveller?

batman75

The only people who can make a profound effect on how travellers are perceived is travellers. Pavee Point and all the so called public mouthpieces would do well to pause, reflect on what is being said and engage in a period of self reflection. It would serve them more good than any apology given by Des Bishop or anyone else for merely speaking the truth.

We might live in a democracy but god help you if you speak the truth or go against the liberal agenda.

Filmer Paradise

pgj2015 wrote: »

I watched the podcast, thought it was very good. Des said travellers are hated in Ireland by Irish people. you have to ask yourself is there another group that is hated in Ireland? do Irish people hate the polish or chinese for example and if not why not. why would they pick the travellers?

The Roma are equally hated & with good reason.

Pavee Point sticks up for these Human Rats along with the Travellers.

Birds of a feather flock together...

Filmer Paradise

batman75 wrote: »

We might live in a democracy but god help you if you speak the truth or go against the liberal agenda.

Never a truer word said.

This is why people like Trump get traction.

Libtards are the worst of the worst.

slipperyox

batman75 wrote: »

The only people who can make a profound effect on how travellers are perceived is travellers. Pavee Point and all the so called public mouthpieces would do well to pause, reflect on what is being said and engage in a period of self reflection. It would serve them more good than any apology given by Des Bishop or anyone else for merely speaking the truth.

We might live in a democracy but god help you if you speak the truth or go against the liberal agenda.

In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

George Orwell

Omackeral

Filmer Paradise wrote: »

The Roma are equally hated & with good reason.

Pavee Point sticks up for these Human Rats along with the Travellers.

Birds of a feather flock together...

You’re correct in saying it’s somewhat acceptable in society to look down on Roma people. It’s something I’ve thought about before. It’s “allowed”. You could’ve made that fair point without referring to a whole swathe of people as human rats though. There’s a massive problem with their begging rackets and general criminality of course but to dehumanise an entire ethnic group of people isn’t right.

suicide_circus

It's possible for a people to be discriminated against and for that people's culture and behaviour to be the main driver of that discrimination.

Montage of Feck

Granadino wrote: »

Like the Gallaghers or all of The Smiths? They’re English and said so themselves

Irish blood, english heart

pgj2015

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Irish blood, english heart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WonEbYXPa5k

ttoppcat

The level of ignorance in this thread is sickening and thoroughly depressing.

Mad_maxx

whisky_galore wrote: »

The fact that is a closed society, subculture, whatever you want to call it, works against it in mainstream society.

If there's traveller on traveller trouble, no guards are called, it's sorted internally. Well that's fine up to the point it spills into the streets and ends up as an endless tit for tat feuding epic. It's not dissimilar to faction fighting of 150 or 200 years ago except travellers haven't moved beyond that.

There is or was, a tradition of mending pots and pans and such like, but as we know that's pretty redundant in today's world and if you're incapable (or unwilling) of adapting and educating yourself to the ways of the "outsider" then you've a very small set of options available to you, including the grey/black economy or criminality.

lack of respect for education is the root of traveller dysfunctionality , no saying is truer than " the devil has work for idle hands " , its not in the least bit surprising that so many travellers end up involved in law breaking , they are bored stiff through lack of employment , the incredibly generous welfare state of course is a serious deterant to them seeking education options

the problem which the left wing activist class have hugely contributed to is that in order to fix this problem , education must be embraced , this would involve dumping traveller culture , face it , bar leaving school unable to barely read , getting married at sixteen and having eight kids which are totally dependent on social welfare for life , what else is there to " traveller culture "

all of those who either earn a living ( the legal profession , pavee point or other victim industry hustlers ) or virtue signal ( media , academia , ) based on traveller dysfunctionality , are obstacles to life improving for the travellers themselves .

we then have the disgusting lie which has now become official truth whereby all of the problems facing travellers are rooted in irrational raw prejudice from the general population , you can never begin to address a problem if your basis for doing so is a false premise

Mad_maxx

batman75 wrote: »

The only people who can make a profound effect on how travellers are perceived is travellers. Pavee Point and all the so called public mouthpieces would do well to pause, reflect on what is being said and engage in a period of self reflection. It would serve them more good than any apology given by Des Bishop or anyone else for merely speaking the truth.

We might live in a democracy but god help you if you speak the truth or go against the liberal agenda.

the religion of political correctness will not tolerate truth being told about any group which features on the progressive lefts sacred cow list

Slideways

ttoppcat wrote: »

The level of ignorance in this thread is sickening and thoroughly depressing.

I enthusiastically await my re-education from you.

Go on then, tell the overwhelming majority in here where we have erred on our stance when it comes to travellers

pgj2015

Education is the key as others have said, the only problem is their parents don't want them educated to a third level standard.
we need to get them integrated with settled kids who have ambition, then they will want to be like their friends.
This clip reminds me of the way their parents think, they think the social welfare is great, free money but then the travellers get so bored with nothing to do, they end up in prison or take heir own lives, i believe suicide is a big cause of death in young traveller males.

skip to 1:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS94fK4djqg

whisky_galore

Mad_maxx wrote: »

lack of respect for education is the root of traveller dysfunctionality , no saying is truer than " the devil has work for idle hands " , its not in the least bit surprising that so many travellers end up involved in law breaking , they are bored stiff through lack of employment , the incredibly generous welfare state of course is a serious deterant to them seeking education options

the problem which the left wing activist class have hugely contributed to is that in order to fix this problem , education must be embraced , this would involve dumping traveller culture , face it , bar leaving school unable to barely read , getting married at sixteen and having eight kids which are totally dependent on social welfare for life , what else is there to " traveller culture "

all of those who either earn a living ( the legal profession , pavee point or other victim industry hustlers ) or virtue signal ( media , academia , ) based on traveller dysfunctionality , are obstacles to life improving for the travellers themselves .

we then have the disgusting lie which has now become official truth whereby all of the problems facing travellers are rooted in irrational raw prejudice from the general population , you can never begin to address a problem if your basis for doing so is a false premise

Education, i.e. outsiders telling them what to do, has no value placed on it.

Strip away the outmoded, antagonistic, highly suspect, all the way to nowadays downright illegal aspects of the culture and theres not a whole lot left.

Music perhaps, some form of secret language/slang, maybe a few stories, that's about it.

Mad_maxx

whisky_galore wrote: »

Education, i.e. outsiders telling them what to do, has no value placed on it.

Strip away the outmoded, antagonistic, highly suspect, all the way to nowadays downright illegal aspects of the culture and theres not a whole lot left.

Music perhaps, some form of secret language/slang, maybe a few stories, that's about it.

no reason music cannot be retained

we need to coerce travellers towards education , not having one nowadays leaves someone effectively a ward of the state their entire lives , the entire traveller community is one big ward ( pun not intended ) of the state

its a hugely expensive freak show and to add insult to injury we have to stomach the insufferable media luvies eulogizing it and appologising for causing the slightest offence every so often

a good start would be capping child benefit at four children , PBP would go nuts along with SF ( pearse doherty would be hopping round the dail more than usual ) and of course RTE but even in working class areas , the majority of couples are not having more than four kids , travellers are a complete outlier here

ttoppcat

Slideways wrote: »

I enthusiastically await my re-education from you.

Go on then, tell the overwhelming majority in here where we have erred on our stance when it comes to travellers

Tbh I can't be arsed...i know from previous experience on this topic that I'm wasting my time. It would take hours to go through and quote and argue with each point. I will say though that if you replaced the word Traveller with Black Men (who as you know are also disproportionately represented in prisons in america) in this thread, there would rightly be uproar at the generalised sweeping and hate filled comments that have appeared here. I feel sorry for any Traveller reading this and would hope they know that not all settled people feel this way.

whisky_galore

ttoppcat wrote: »

Tbh I can't be arsed...i know from previous experience on this topic that I'm wasting my time. It would take hours to go through and quote and argue with each point. I will say though that if you replaced the word Traveller with Black Men (who as you know are also disproportionately represented in prisons in america) in this thread, there would rightly be uproar at the generalised sweeping and hate filled comments that have appeared here. I feel sorry for any Traveller reading this and would hope they know that not all settled people feel this way.

It's not really the same as African Americans is it?

No one stops a traveller from voting, running for public office, availing of free education. I'm sure there's all manner of aid to get third level if they were remotely interested.

The industrial for-profit incarceration system in the US is nothing like what is here.

No guard ever arrested a traveller for a busted rear light.

Guards don't shoot, beat or kill travellers on a regular basis.

Omackeral

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's not really the same as African Americans is it?

No one stops a traveller from voting, running for public office

I can't buy into this. Black people can and do run for office. They can vote. There has been an African American US President this decade. There are serving black senators right now. There are serving governors and lieutenant governors.

suicide_circus

Omackeral wrote: »

I can't buy into this. Black people can and do run for office. They can vote. There has been an African American US President this decade. There are serving black senators right now. There are serving governors and lieutenant governors.

Yes but the power of victimhood and the currency of martyrdom is very in vogue. Oddly reminiscent of early Christianity actually

Slideways

ttoppcat wrote: »

Tbh I can't be arsed...i know from previous experience on this topic that I'm wasting my time. It would take hours to go through and quote and argue with each point. I will say though that if you replaced the word Traveller with Black Men (who as you know are also disproportionately represented in prisons in america) in this thread, there would rightly be uproar at the generalised sweeping and hate filled comments that have appeared here. I feel sorry for any Traveller reading this and would hope they know that not all settled people feel this way.

The difference between black people (both African American and Australian aboriginals as I live in Aus) is that vast swathes of them work and contribute to society, get elected and live peaceful lives even if they have a higher percentage convicted/social welfare claimants etc.

How many travellers do you PERSONALLY know who have jobs etc. I’ve been around them for years, even have a phone number for one in my phone who I used to buy tools from as a mechanic in Ireland but they just don’t align themselves with society. The cost v benefit ratio is off the charts

whisky_galore

Omackeral wrote: »

I can't buy into this. Black people can and do run for office. They can vote. There has been an African American US President this decade. There are serving black senators right now. There are serving governors and lieutenant governors.

They can vote but some areas make it difficult for black voters to cast their ballot. I'm surprised you don't know this.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-black-americans-still-face-obstacles-to-voting-at-every-step-2020-6

Heaps of African Americans do run for office, we have one, count them, one, Traveller in the Senate.

whisky_galore

Slideways wrote: »

The difference between black people (both African American and Australian aboriginals as I live in Aus) is that vast swathes of them work and contribute to society, get elected and live peaceful lives even if they have a higher percentage convicted/social welfare claimants etc.

How many travellers do you PERSONALLY know who have jobs etc. I’ve been around them for years, even have a phone number for one in my phone who I used to buy tools from as a mechanic in Ireland but they just don’t align themselves with society. The cost v benefit ratio is off the charts

Nobody stole travellers land, nobody kidnapped travellers and forced them to work as slaves.

pgj2015

whisky_galore wrote: »

They can vote but some areas make it difficult for black voters to cast their ballot. I'm surprised you don't know this.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-black-americans-still-face-obstacles-to-voting-at-every-step-2020-6

Heaps of African Americans do run for office, we have one, count them, one, Traveller in the Senate.

And her main focus is hate speech, not trying to get travellers educated and away from getting married at 16 and a life on social welfare.

pgj2015

whisky_galore wrote: »

They can vote but some areas make it difficult for black voters to cast their ballot. I'm surprised you don't know this.
https://www.businessinsider.com/why-black-americans-still-face-obstacles-to-voting-at-every-step-2020-6

Heaps of African Americans do run for office, we have one, count them, one, Traveller in the Senate.

And her main focus is changing the law in relation to hate speech against minorities, not trying to get travellers educated and away from getting married at 16 and a life on social welfare.