Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

Level 3 until a vaccine I predict, unfortunately. Fully agree with MelbourneMan. We could lift the limit on outdoor dining, but indoor-anything is difficult.

How are they going to resolve issues like "cross-border" travel in places like Dublin and Gardai checkpoints going on for months and months, never mind killing off the hospitality and tourist industries? It needs a whole lot more of a plan than let's do Level 3 till we get a vaccine.

CalamariFritti

kippy wrote: »

Unfortunately we are in the midst of an almost unprecedented global pandemic. **** is going to be frustrating.

And that makes all that alright? I dont think so. How long is this 'unprecedented global pandemic' line going to be used? Is this still going to be a novel virus we dont know anything about in 2 years time? Give me a break. We are all over the place. At the moment it seems we got lucky break. I'm under no illusion our experts are as surprised by the current drops as anyone else.

Loafing Oaf

CalamariFritti wrote: »

And just as Tony was going to settle smugly into his armchair practicing his 'I-told-you-so' grin it appears that level 5 was yet again another overreaction.

But doesn't an 'overreaction' just mean mean we'd get to the same place with level 3, but it would have taken longer? I don't see the harm in that...

hmmm

is_that_so wrote: »

How are they going to resolve issues like "cross-border" travel in places like Dublin and Gardai checkpoints going on for months and months, never mind killing off the hospitality and tourist industries?

We'll get rid of geographical restrictions (I predict) and we'll have Europe-wide agreement on travel testing, but indoor locations where you can get superspread are difficult to justify. Level 3 might allow us to maintain that level for a long time, whereas Level 1 or 2 will mean rising cases and we'll have to go back into full lockdown. There's hope 2 or even 3 vaccine trials will report this month.

Plumbthedepths

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

I keep hearing people saying that Level 5 is working etc, we needed to it, we are bucking the trend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But it was level 3+ not level 5, people are so gullible

There is also many people saying level 3+ is what is responsible for the present fall in numbers. Government was bounced into level 5 by Holohans hysterics.

SortingYouOut

is_that_so wrote: »

In households ,where a lot of transmission takes place anyway.

Classrooms are like sitting rooms without a couch or a TV and you have invited the neighbours around to finger paint.

Plumbthedepths

kippy wrote: »

Unfortunately we are in the midst of an almost unprecedented global pandemic. **** is going to be frustrating.

'Almost unprecedented' what does that mean?

bb1234567

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/27/coronavirus-nurse-death-toll-from-covid-19-hits-the-1-500-mark-says-federation

More nurses have now died worldwide from COVID than during the First World War:(

hmmm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There is also many people saying level 3+ is what is responsible for the present fall in numbers. Government was bounced into level 5 by Holohans hysterics.

Level 3 looked to have stopped the rise, but cases were not falling. Our hospitals would have been over-run with 1,000 cases a day.

Once we get the numbers down, Level 3 will look attractive I think.

niallo27

hmmm wrote: »

Level 3 until a vaccine I predict, unfortunately. Fully agree with MelbourneMan. We could lift the limit on outdoor dining, but indoor-anything is difficult.

That could be over a year away, you expect people to have no social lives, no going for dinner, no holidays, no leaving your county for that long. Its not practical or advisable to do this whichever side of the debate you are on.

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

We'll get rid of geographical restrictions (I predict) and we'll have Europe-wide agreement on travel testing, but indoor locations where you can get superspread are difficult to justify. Level 3 might allow us to maintain that level for a long time, whereas Level 1 or 2 will mean rising cases and we'll have to go back into full lockdown.

We will need them but I'm just as not sold on the long-term application of Level 3 only as it's neither living with the virus nor an actual plan and as I said earlier it's just the same March 2020 plan with some goodies thrown in. NPHET, HIQA and the HSE will need to do an awful lot better than that.

CalamariFritti

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But doesn't an 'overreaction' just mean mean we'd get to the same place with level 3, but it would have taken longer? I don't see the harm in that...

6 weeks of lockdown approximately 2bn down the drain. Thousands of livelihoods on the brink. No harm in that no?

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

Level 3 looked to have stopped the rise, but cases were not falling. Our hospitals would have been over-run with 1,000 cases a day.

Once we get the numbers down, Level 3 will look attractive I think.

But it really shouldn't. We need to be looking at ways to get back to Level 2 and ultimately Level 1.

hmmm

niallo27 wrote: »

That could be over a year away, you expect people to have no social lives, no going for dinner, no holidays, no leaving your county for that long. Its not practical or advisable to do this whichever side of the debate you are on.

People can have social lives, just not in indoor locations with lots of people.

That or the alternative is to repeatedly have to lockdown fully every few months.

When we get a vaccine, and when we get rapid testing, we'll chip away at the virus and begin to relieve the pressure.

Loafing Oaf

CalamariFritti wrote: »

6 weeks of lockdown approximately 2bn down the drain. Thousands of livelihoods on the brink. No harm in that no?

But level 3 would be doing the same thing over a more extended period, no?

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

People can have social lives, just not in indoor locations with lots of people.

That or the alternative is to repeatedly have to lockdown fully every few months.

Or look at alternative tools. The Slovak experiment is interesting.

Plumbthedepths

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/27/coronavirus-nurse-death-toll-from-covid-19-hits-the-1-500-mark-says-federation

More nurses have now died worldwide from COVID than during the First World War:(

Sad for all involved and may they RIP.
However when population size is taken into consideration from the two time frames . The number of nursing deaths during WWI is shocking considering they were non combatants.
I genuinely don't understand this desire to compare deaths from certain periods in time.

bush

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But level 3 would be doing the same thing over a more extended period, no?

Less people out of work at level 3 is that really hard to understand ?

mr_edge_to_you

I think of we can get back to level 3 with strong compliance and enforcement for a few weeks we should be able to get back to level 2, which will also require compliance and strict enforcement. After that, there's not much else we can do bar going full Wall-E.

hmmm

bush wrote: »

Less people out of work at level 3 is that really hard to understand ?

And when the news is full of stories about ICUs being over-run, how many customers do restaurants and pubs expect to get?

The only way you get people out of their houses and spending is if they feel confident the virus is being controlled.

bb1234567

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Sad for all involved and may they RIP.
However when population size is taken into consideration from the two time frames . The number of nursing deaths during WWI is shocking considering they were non combatants.
I genuinely don't understand this desire to compare deaths from certain periods in time.

I think it is comparable because in terms of the number of healthcare staff that have been killed globally during one disaster, there's not really many comparisons other than wars.

The death toll of nurses and doctors globally is shocking considering it is a disease that primarily affects elderly and ill and healthcare staff are clad head to toe in PPE.

In addition COVID has been over the course of less than a year, the number of nurses who died during WW1 was over the course of 4 years. The survey also only included 40 countries.

kippy

CalamariFritti wrote: »

And that makes all that alright? I dont think so. How long is this 'unprecedented global pandemic' line going to be used? Is this still going to be a novel virus we dont know anything about in 2 years time? Give me a break. We are all over the place. At the moment it seems we got lucky break. I'm under no illusion our experts are as surprised by the current drops as anyone else.

Look,
There are very many things at play here. Ultimately individuals make many decisions on a daily basis that have a direct impact of the spread or otherwise of this virus and these decisions are totally outside of the direct control of anyone bar the individual. Sure, you can force high risk locations and events to close and direct people on what to do to reduce the spread but ultimately these decisions are down to individuals.
The other side of things is this virus is not straightforward to trace due to the number of people who get it and don't know they have it, yet spread it as well as the incubation period. It also appears there are a number of mutations at play.
So I think you completely overestimate the ability of humans to figure these things out and underestimate this time period in the bigger picture of human evolution.

On a local level what I saw in September/early October were major spreading events as a result of Colleges returning, the ending of various county championships, social events outside of the regulations (hen parties, stags) and the increased close contacts people were making.
As the numbers rose and it became obvious to people what was happening some people pulled back, made there own decision to reduce contacts and avoid crowds etc (back to my first point above) but unfortunately when the likelihood of picking the virus up increased one hundred fold in that time many people ended up getting it despite their own best efforts.
Which is back to my first point. So yeah **** is going to remain frustrating, hard to fathom, hard to make sense of for a time yet.

Plumbthedepths

bb1234567 wrote: »

I think it is comparable because in terms of the number of healthcare staff that have been killed globally during one disaster, there's not really many comparisons other than wars.

The death toll of nurses and doctors globally is shocking considering it is a disease that primarily affects elderly and ill and healthcare staff are clad head to toe in PPE.

It's really not comparable and an ounce of intellect would demonstrate why buy it's a catchy eye grabber though.
I had to have bloods taken recently only person wearing a mask during the procedure was me. So clad head to toe in PPE? lol

niallo27

hmmm wrote: »

People can have social lives, just not in indoor locations with lots of people.

That or the alternative is to repeatedly have to lockdown fully every few months.

When we get a vaccine, and when we get rapid testing, we'll chip away at the virus and begin to relieve the pressure.

In jan or feb in the rain, I think most would prefer a full lockdown every few months if that's the case. Its not practical though, you can't expect the majority to do it for months maybe a year.

TheDeep

hmmm wrote: »

And when the news is full of stories about ICUs being over-run, how many customers do restaurants and pubs expect to get?

The only way you get people out of their houses and spending is if they feel confident the virus is being controlled.

Let’s let the restaurants make that decision for themselves. If they’re not getting enough customers (which I highly doubt would happen) then they can close.

kippy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

'Almost unprecedented' what does that mean?

Well, a bad turn of phrase by myself.

What I was trying to get across was the fact that we have had pandemics before but none of this nature in modern (global travel, scientific) times.....

Akabusi

bb1234567 wrote: »

https://www.euronews.com/2020/10/27/coronavirus-nurse-death-toll-from-covid-19-hits-the-1-500-mark-says-federation

More nurses have now died worldwide from COVID than during the First World War:(

What a bizarre comparison.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's really not comparable and an ounce of intellect would demonstrate why buy it's a catchy eye grabber though.
I had to have bloods taken recently only person wearing a mask during the procedure was me. So clad head to toe in PPE? lol

Anyone treating a know or suspected covid case in hospital would be in full ppe, doesn't take much intellect to understand that. As for a medical professional to not be wearing a mask when taking your bloods, yeah don't believe that.

niallo27

hmmm wrote: »

And when the news is full of stories about ICUs being over-run, how many customers do restaurants and pubs expect to get?

The only way you get people out of their houses and spending is if they feel confident the virus is being controlled.

Or hospitals have been overrun for years, hundreds on trolleys, people dieing on trolleys and it didn't affect peoples spendings. On the level 5 thing, we were told to wait 2 to 3 weeks for it to come into affect, is this information now incorrect.

CalamariFritti

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

I think of we can get back to level 3 with strong compliance and enforcement for a few weeks we should be able to get back to level 2, which will also require compliance and strict enforcement. After that, there's not much else we can do bar going full Wall-E.

I agree with our current mindset the threshold is probably somewhere between level 1 and 3. Thats not saying I agree with the current mindset but thats another matter.

But either way we need to be more methodical and stop the knee jerk reactions and the micromanagement stuff. And the hand wringing and the oooh-ing and aah-ing over daily stricken George Lee reports. We need to get smart and rational with this. Our living-with-covid strategy needs an attitude shift.

Or we can continue tapping around in the dark and shut down the country every 2 months.