Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

bloopy

So I guess after tonight we have finally gotten round to blaming everyone else rather than specific groups.

weldoninhio

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

But we are counting them...but only Covid related (of or from? No one seems to ever know or be told) - they’re like bingo numbers for some- except nightly

I’d love to know how many who have died of Covid were on palliative care or an end of life programme prior to catching the deadly disease.

id go as far as saying masks to the untrained hand are just a conduit for spreading the virus..and despite what we hear, nobody in the mainstream media will touch it..

I was delighted to see Michael McDowell losing the rag with one of the "experts de jour" at the end of the 10'O clock show,. The "expert was waving the mass graves scenario as usual.

Can I ask anyone who seems to be in the know..how long does this LAG last for?? we apparently had our first death in Ireland from covid was on the 11th of march..If like many HISTORICAL deaths, she hung on for weeks, shouldn't we be sing the "second wave" death toll easily by now?? with over 1000 cases of this dreaded, killer, deadly, indiscriminate, new, virus???

patnor1011

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Look masks went on cases went up, that was Tony and Cillians fear, the general public are not using them properly, they are dangerous if you don't respect them and cause secondary transmission.
Tbh I've no interest in discussing masks, there's a thread for that which I'm gladly banned from. I detest them. They do not stop covid spread in the community.

It is like this.

They are no good and dont waste them as our frontline staff needs them.
OK.
We are in this all together so do your bit and wear them we need to protect our vulnerable you bad bad boy/girl
OK.
Erm, we do it wrong and dont use them properly that is why cases are up.
OK.
We should wear them outside and in the houses.
Not OK.

Masks are sacred cow on where to shift blame. They are not going to stop or eradicate covid. They simply are not even going to stop spread and from the looks of it they are not even slowing it down.
The main point is that virus is out and every day there is more and more people infected and there is nothing we can do about it short of physicaly restraining every single person or animal suspected of carrying it worldwide. But here we go to sci-fi territory.

Whatsisname

I’m not anti mask, I’d prefer to not have to wear them like most I’d imagine, but if I have to wear one I will. But myself and my girlfriend went down to London last weekend and she’s come back with a cough. We’ve since had a test and both have come back negative. But considering we wore a mask everywhere on the tube, on the train to and from and regularly washed/sanitised our hands, it’s made me question just how efficient they actually are.

Idbatterim

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/liverpool-pub-three-bellends-lockdown_uk_5f871a9cc5b6f53fff07b701?ncid=other_whatsapp_catgqis0hqm&utm_campaign=share_whatsapp

Pub in liverpool changes its name to" the three bellends" hopefully one here will do the same shortly for mm, spoofadkar and fat tony...

Jorge Limited Maze

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Of course they do a stupid dog would know that if you put a barrier between your mouth/nose and the outside world that it blocks the escape of the water droplets carrying the virus. Like it’s such a simple concept but some are so anti-mask and find such a simple and painless thing so much of an imposition that they just can’t understand.

Similar if you are wearing one and there are virus droplets in the air of course they will not be able to get though or at the very least be limited in how much you breath in. Simple basic logic you don’t even need to see all the evidence that masks make a significant difference.

Jesus NOX how have you not been snapped up now?? you're amazing brain alone belongs in the Guggenheim..

You focus on the filter, unlike the brain and mouth filter you could do with wearing. So if bio hazard needles belong in respective boxes throughout the health system, why is this Deadly Virus floating around every kerp on a discarded potentially loaded mask? When a person takes off a mask for a coffee and pulls it out of their pocket in town for a next shop visit, do you think they're rubbing the hands every time? whilst picking up perfume? shopping? using petrol pumps? taking coffee mug caps? using I phones? handling money?

I had a driver today hand me a form to sign with a pen that was in his mouth!!!! get a grip and get real, In the 80's they showed people on the late late, how to put on a condom!! you may not remember that as you were maybe floating around at the bottom of one!

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Case in point...in the full speech he actually pulls down the mask to cough in his hand, if he doesn't get a dose it's all the matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0pDvlBTRHs

100000% thank you, I owe ye a pint when this is over :-)

Ice Albatross

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is like this.

They are no good and dont waste them as our frontline staff needs them.
OK.
We are in this all together so do your bit and wear them we need to protect our vulnerable you bad bad boy/girl
OK.
Erm, we do it wrong and dont use them properly that is why cases are up.
OK.
We should wear them outside and in the houses.
Not OK.

Masks are sacred cow on where to shift blame. They are not going to stop or eradicate covid. They simply are not even going to stop spread and from the looks of it they are not even slowing it down.
The main point is that virus is out and every day there is more and more people infected and there is nothing we can do about it short of physicaly restraining every single person or animal suspected of carrying it worldwide. But here we go to sci-fi territory.

True. It's all about making people feel better though. I know a couple of people who were shocked nobody was wearing masks in March even when they weren't recommended. It's for those people who we are now wearing masks. I don't mind it in shops but on public transport when you're not sitting near anyone it's a hassle

Jorge Limited Maze

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Of course they do a stupid dog would know that if you put a barrier between your mouth/nose and the outside world that it blocks the escape of the water droplets carrying the virus. Like it’s such a simple concept but some are so anti-mask and find such a simple and painless thing so much of an imposition that they just can’t understand.

Similar if you are wearing one and there are virus droplets in the air of course they will not be able to get though or at the very least be limited in how much you breath in. Simple basic logic you don’t even need to see all the evidence that masks make a significant difference.

Also, what are you talking about, droplets in the air can enter anywhere there's a mucus membrane..ehhh like your eyes?? even your ears!!! why do you think surgeons wear visors on HIV patients , stupid dog!

If it's that airborne then we're all fukt! which I don't believe it is for a second. In efforts to further your miseducation, salivate on this one below,.

https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-can-infect-ear-study-suggests-1519995#:~:text=The%20coronavirus%20that%20causes%20COVID-19%20has%20been%20found,ear%20and%20the%20mastoid%20area%20of%20the%20head.

drunkmonkey

rusty cole wrote: »

If it's that airborne then we're all fukt! which I don't believe it is for a second.

What were the Chinese up to then.... looking back none of it makes sense. Their nightclubs are open, no mask mandate, now there at the same crap again testing 9 million people over a couple of days. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but something fishy is going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLdwCdyiDCw

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

As far as I know everyone is free and entitled to put out any message they want. It is up to individual to either agree with your points or not.
You still do not understand that if you have problem with what he is talking about then shoot on and try to disprove his findings or messages. Attack the message and not the messenger. You simply do not agree with him but it is based on your faith and not education, experience or facts. Therefore you again try to discredit message by attacking some imaginary qualifications.
One does not have to be a chef to have opinion about quality or taste of food.
Since I presume that you are not a qualified researcher in this specific field either according to your logic you too are spreading dangerous nonsense.

Here it is. The problem with modern democracy in a nutshell. My opinion is just as valid as your PhD. Next time you need a tooth filling, get onto your plumber.

Besides I've refuted two of his points. Read the thread I linked if you want more.

patnor1011

Ice Albatross wrote: »

True. It's all about making people feel better though. I know a couple of people who were shocked nobody was wearing masks in March even when they weren't recommended. It's for those people who we are now wearing masks. I don't mind it in shops but on public transport when you're not sitting near anyone it's a hassle

Sorry but I do not share your view. Being one of them I do not expect you to protect me.
Vulnerable people already know what to do to protect themselves and to make everyone else to wear mask so they can "mingle" is wrong because they cant. Vulnerable people are just sick and most of them are not retarded.
If they want to go out they should do it at their own risk as I am doing daily and not at expense of everyone else. Because frankly, 95% of people do not risk more than they risk when crossing busy street by not putting a mask on.

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Here it is. The problem with modern democracy in a nutshell. My opinion is just as valid as your PhD. Next time you need a tooth filling, get onto your plumber, see how that works out for you.

Besides I've refuted two of his points. Read the thread I linked if you want more.

Interesting. You think that having PhD somehow guarantee that you are always right.

You refuted nothing. You just have opinion. He has one too. Besides nonsymptomatic carriers can be called as being immune too. Many scientists are still debating what immunity means and from what we see that so precious little cases develop any symptoms at all we can easily deduct that immunity is quite high. Since we know so little about immune system anyway just to measure antibodies level is not the only immunity we can have.

Whatsisname

Saw this over on reddit tonight and couldn’t agree more. Especially with the Irish government saying stuff like “treat everyone you meet as if they have it”

Since the start of the pandemic and the subsequent lockdowns, we have heard people off and online talking about how they don't understand why people are fighting and arguing when this disease affects us all as a whole. Instead of fighting, this should unite us.

Yet, here we are; at each other's throats. We have people yelling and shaming those who aren't "properly" distancing,"properly" wearing masks, or engaging "properly" in any other safety theatric. On the other side, you have others who are spewing complete conspiracy theories. There is no unity.

Surprised? Anyone who is should not be.

How can you have a large group of people working together as a team when the supposed "enemy" *is* your neighbor, your colleague, or even your family.

How can we work together when we see others as "plague rats?" The narrative is that you, John or Joanna Q. Public, might very well be infected with a deadly virus, so you better be wearing layers of PPE at all times so you don't kill someone's grandma. In turn, why would I want to work with people who are trying to kill me?

We are teaching people that everyone else is a mortal threat to them while simultaneously wondering why people aren't getting along. What a time to be alive.

patnor1011

patnor1011 wrote: »

Interesting. You think that having PhD somehow guarantee that you are always right.

You refuted nothing. You just have opinion. He has one too. Besides nonsymptomatic carriers can be called as being immune too. Many scientists are still debating what immunity means and from what we see that so precious little cases develop any symptoms at all we can easily deduct that immunity is quite high. Since we know so little about immune system anyway just to measure antibodies level is not the only immunity we can have.

You're an idiot. Ban me from this thread please.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're an idiot. Ban me from this thread please.

Or you could just unfollow. It's quite easy to do.

charlie14

patnor1011 wrote: »

He is the same charlatan as you or me. Hundreds of people here give their opinion nearly daily, you included.
Since when expressing opinion make you a charlatan?

Of course he is a charlatan, and if he is claiming that we have 80% immunity as another poster said, he is a dangerous and reckless charlatan.


He is nothing other than a chemical engineer now attempting to cash on as a nutritional guru. That`s where the money is nowadays if you can stand out in the crowd. And that is what he is trying to do. Create publicity by getting mugs to convince other mugs to pay attention to him and he does not give a flying f^^k for the collateral damage.


The main thing I hear whenever he is brought up and I ask why should we believe a thing he says with him having zero qualification for any of the subjects he is spouting about. The answer : He has a lot of followers on Twitter.
The Kardashians I imagine have more followers than he does, and have as much expertise as that chancer.

If they started spouting the same ****e he is, would you believe them as well ?
80% immunity? cop yourself on.

Tell me how

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

The science behind mask wearing is extremely weak at best. They’re just a “ah sure maybe what’s the harm” effort. But they’ve become like rosary beads to some - woe betide anyone with the temerity to question them!
I couldn’t bothered as it’s a battle not worth having but the virus is speaking for itself regardless

I'm currently living in Massachusetts.
The governor, (A Republican) announced a state of emergency on the 10th of March. Since late April, to this very day, everyone is wearing masks in public spaces and in shops, businesses etc. There is very high compliance with this. Even with people out jogging, cycling walking on the street etc. There wasn't anything like the furore I understand going on in Ireland and elsewhere in relation to them.

Note Massachusetts position in this video at the start, and at the end.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1315856349964759040?s=19

I'm not saying it is specifically because of masks, but another thing masks do aside from limiting spread/exposure is to constantly remind people to be cautious and so people keep their distance, use hand sanitiser and so on also.

I cycle frequently and the biggest issue with the mask is fog build up on my glasses when I stop. I can't understand the resistance to them.

Happydays2020

Did this thread set up a go fund me site for this ad? Or did this thread inspire the ad? Or perhaps this is the reality the level 6 lock down brigade need to see?

patnor1011

charlie14 wrote: »

Of course he is a charlatan, and if he is claiming that we have 80% immunity as another poster said, he is a dangerous and reckless charlatan.


He is nothing other than a chemical engineer now attempting to cash on as a nutritional guru. That`s where the money is nowadays if you can stand out in the crowd. And that is what he is trying to do. Create publicity by getting mugs to convince other mugs to pay attention to him and he does not give a flying f^^k for the collateral damage.


The main thing I hear whenever he is brought up and I ask why should we believe a thing he says with him having zero qualification for any of the subjects he is spouting about. The answer : He has a lot of followers on Twitter.
The Kardashians I imagine have more followers than he does, and have as much expertise as that chancer.

If they started spouting the same ****e he is, would you believe them as well ?
80% immunity? cop yourself on.

Yet you are eager to follow feller who without a shred of medical or science education or qualification constantly spouting on media about covid and vaccines. The answer : He donated and invested a lot of money in vaccine companies. One of frequent posters on vaccine thread even proclaimed that since he is investing in pharma for more than 10 years he can be called medical expert. Stuff like this is precious. One can not be expert without education but other one can. This only prove that people do have different opinions and you would get much further accepting that not everyone share your view on most of the things.
You too should cop yourself on.

Graces7

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I doubt it, its more reasonable to expect someone to take care of their own safety ie get the flu vaccine instead of demanding others protect them.

Belt and braces time. I for one cannot take the flu vaccine. . a mask is such a small thing to do and is such kindness!

TheDeep

Graces7 wrote: »

Belt and braces time. I for one cannot take the flu vaccine. . a mask is such a small thing to do and is such kindness!

Whatever about masks. I don’t care about them, they don’t bother me. But to expect everyone else to abide by the latest restrictions (no visiting other households etc...) to protect you is the height of selfishness I think.

If people don’t want to get the virus they should stay home. People on Twitter and Reddit crying out for level 5 restrictions when they could just live by level 5 restrictions themselves if they wanted!

Graces7

Whatsisname wrote: »

How did humans ever live past the black death, the spanish flu, etc if herd immunity is not a thing? that doesn't make any sense.

Simple. We were scattered in smaller communities and there was no international travel so not everyone or every community was exposed to the infection. So no herd immunity ..

Also look up EYAM Plague village 1665 A small town that had plague infection brought in on cloth and literally sealed themselves in to prevent it being spread outside the town . NB it was the only outbreak outside London.. and many of them died where had they fled the town and spread the plague?

Now if all of us stayed home...

Wanderer78

TheDeep wrote:

Whatever about masks. I don’t care about them, they don’t bother me. But to expect everyone else to abide by the latest restrictions (no visiting other households etc...) to protect you is the height of selfishness I think.

What do you mean?

Graces7

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Of course they do a stupid dog would know that if you put a barrier between your mouth/nose and the outside world that it blocks the escape of the water droplets carrying the virus. Like it’s such a simple concept but some are so anti-mask and find such a simple and painless thing so much of an imposition that they just can’t understand.

Similar if you are wearing one and there are virus droplets in the air of course they will not be able to get though or at the very least be limited in how much you breath in. Simple basic logic you don’t even need to see all the evidence that masks make a significant difference.

A point not mentioned is that deaf folk watching the conferences lipread. Yes, there is a signer as back up...

Graces7

TheDeep wrote: »

Whatever about masks. I don’t care about them, they don’t bother me. But to expect everyone else to abide by the latest restrictions (no visiting other households etc...) to protect you is the height of selfishness I think.

If people don’t want to get the virus they should stay home. People on Twitter and Reddit crying out for level 5 restrictions when they could just live by level 5 restrictions themselves if they wanted!

Where did that attack some from!!!! I have not left home for two years.

And while I don't make the regulations. I wholeheartedly agree with them . So you want all the vulnerable to be like prisoners, and many others to catch the virus and the hospitals get overwhelmed so folk cannot get cancer treatment? So you can go out socially?


Anyways the restrictions are there regardless of opinions,

patnor1011

Graces7 wrote: »

Now if all of us stayed home...

But we cant.
Even during last lockdown over a third of population was not shielded in any meaningful way. It was those people who had to work so your and mine house will have electricity, gas, oil, TV, internet.... on.
Not to mention that even during lockdown majority of people went shopping daily.

I also think I understand what you meant with belts and braces on.
That moment came for me 11 years ago when my consultant told me that the moment I will go out I am going to catch everything out there as my immunity system is in shreds. My body literally fight with itself constantly. Any outside infection make it worse.
Unfortunately I am not in a position to be shielded from pretty much anything as there was not a hint of help before and covid is no different even though PUP is there. For me PUP isn't gonna cut it. Without job I will be swiftly homeless and most likely dead soon after. I had to take everything in and decide what I can and what I can not do and since my job is essential and cant be done from home I was working last lockdown and will remain working for as long as I can.
People who can and think they needs to shield from this virus should do so. The feeling that you did what you could for yourself is much better than living in a fear that others are not doing enough for you.

walus

patnor1011 wrote: »

Ok then let me rephrase.
Every other Nordic country vs Sweden argument is moot.
Vulnerable or better said people on death bed in Sweden died contracting covid and those in the same situation in every other Nordic country will die as soon as they contract it as they can not be shielded forever.

Just give it some time.
Perhaps, it may be easier to deal with pain and grief in shorter timeframe than deal with the same over prolonged time. Mainly when you realize that you will have to deal with it no matter what.

I agree with that. The current strategy of dealing with the spread of covid effectively increases the chances of those vulnerable people contracting the virus eventually as it extends the time in which the virus spreads through the society. Instead of isolating the vulnerable and those who care for them for 3 months during which the virus goes through the herd, the government is trying to suppress it which only causes it to slow down the spread, it does not change the nature of it, it does not reduce the total risk of contracting the virus. Which is better 3 months of high risk with proper measures of protecting the vulnerable, or 12+ months of moderate risk with virtually no measures in place to protect those who really need it?


In terms of cost I believe that it would be much cheaper and easier to implement too. We have just flushed 20bn down the drain and that has not even allowed us to understand and control the spread of the virus. Come spring we will be still in the same place as same time the previous year. A quarter of that, when applied to those most vulnerable, would be sufficient to support that effort, easily.

Dempo1

I don't know, completely baffled at last night's decisions. Government knew NPHET meeting today and yet went ahead with a yeah but, yeah but, yeah but half baked level 3.whatever your having approach whilst moving to level 4 on 3 of the 6 counties with extraordinary case numbers. Is is another ploy to undermine what NPHET may recommend today?, they haven't changed their stance of two weeks ago, much to Leo's angst.

The household restrictions, just bizzare and unenforceable albeit hints of penalties/fines being muted (good luck with that)

Level 3 clearly hasn't worked so what is going on?

I accept households, community spread is the issue but surely the elephant in the room is being overlooked and that's Retail, particularly shopping centres etc.

Government seem intent on bypassing NPHET, continue with the obsession of keeping schools open and avoiding level 5 but the Irony being of course, the continuing mix messaging is actually harming the economy. I'm not pro lockdown but it's patently obvious a short but blunt one needed, this current approach all over the place and Christmas looking increasingly bleak.