Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

end of the road

Elessar wrote: »

I've held my nerve over all of the restrictions up to now but this 6 week rubbish is an absolute disgrace of the highest order. Not even Belgium with its case numbers is as restrictive or as long as ours. We are the North Korea of Europe. The economic toll and the toll this will have on people is immense and the government should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget we also have a hard Brexit to look forward to aswell for jobs and the economy.

And after the 6 weeks the cases will just rise again, for what? Another 6 weeks of soviet-like restrictions that nobody else in the EU would even contemplate? More lost jobs, more domestic abuse, more mortgage arrears. What happened to the 'we must learn to live with the virus' mantra that that government were signalling after the last lockdown? I'd give my own opinions on what should be done but to what end...the government won't give a sh*te and most Irish people will just lap up what the government give them.

An absolute travesty.

suggesting our minimal restrictions are north corea or soviet union like is headbanger nonsense and an insult to the people who are suffering in north corea under a brutal dictatorship, and to those who suffered at the hands of the soviet union who, unlike you and i, suffer and have suffered respectively, actual genuine hardship.
there was always going to be an economic toll no matter what was done.
everybody else in the EU have either had similar restrictions or are re-implementing them on a local basis where required by the way.
any piece of vermin engaging in abuse of their partners are responsible for their own actions and would be doing it covid or no covid, they must be prosecuted and locked up.
the we must live with the virus mantra is exactly what we have had since the beginning, it was always going to mean restrictions.

normanoffside

Strumms wrote: »

No, if their death certificate says otherwise.

Their death certificate can mention multiple causes. Covid must be listed (if tested positive or even suspected as such) as one of them.

CalamariFritti

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is the biggest bloody echo chamber of a thread you'll ever see!!

I guess that's true but every thread is guilty of that.

Mask thread is for the hardcore covid guys.
General thread has a bit of a debate and info but mostly RTE/party line.
This here is the refuge for the sceptics.

Echo chamber happens almost naturally. You post something somewhere, you get called an idiot, you may take a stand for a short while but eventually you go fk not going in there again.
Sign of the times I guess. No one ever backs down in an internet debate and everyone shouts all the time. People would never speak like that face to face. I'm as guilty as anyone.

My opinion is what I arrived at looking at all the information available to me and passed it through my life experience filter. Like everyone else. Only thing I know for sure is I dont know for sure and neither do you. None of us should forget that.

joeguevara

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Lol then you're beyond naieve- it makes for cheap programming with a captive audience requiring zero thought or innovaton.
Plus there's Government grant aid to "help" them overcome the financial loss of ad reveneues= all in all this is media Gold and the best easiest story since 9/11...lockdown also increases listenership as people have nothing else to do.

Lockdown decimates radio shows such as Newstalk as people mainly listen to it in the car. Doubt many people put the radio on at home, so saying that that a lockdown benefits radio doesn’t fit. Vast majority of people aren’t watching RTE. Netflix has completely cannibalised terrestrial TV.

Was there a reason you mentioned 9/11. Do you think there was an alternative protagonists involved than anything discussed? Do you see the irony that you believe anyone invited by RTE as an analyst or commentator is being spooned an agenda but when it comes to other anti belief bias, it’s thought provoking and mana. Journalists are not equipped to impart technical knowledge on this and wanting to constantly listen to any analyst ad hominem is damaging.

Do you think every leader in the EU is manufacturing an illusion of a virus s meltdown, all together in order for a massive heist or reset?

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Does testing occur for flu deaths is nursing homes?

Remember it only needs a positive test to be called a Covid death, so we must apply similar metrics to the flu.

It seems the flu is fatal to young children.

Who calibrated the moral compass so that flu deaths were not worthy of historic restrictions?

Totally different argument Fintan.
My point is that we know the percentage to confirmed cases due to Covid-19.
The point was being made on estimates by the WHO. I used the WHO`s estimate on flu as opposed to the actual verifiable figures on Covid-19 and that showed that Covid-19 has a mortality rate almost 4 times greater.
You cannot have it both ways on WHO estimates.



Seeing as you are asking about tests you never did explain your statement "1 in 100 have had a positive test" on testing in Ireland.

TheCitizen

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Have you seen the eye watering figures media outlets for getting as advertising revenue from the government? Some local radio stations are getting more per payment than they would normally in a year! anywhere between €75K and €90K, even more in some cases.

Haven’t seen them. Have you a credible source for this? Are you talking about the public service announcements etc.?

Is there not a corollary to that in that because of lockdown RTÉ is losing funding and revenue. Shíte like the Rose of Tralee is a big money spinner for RTÉ so anything their pulling in from the government re “advertising” as you call it re Covid is out weighed elsewhere. All this sounds like conspiracy theory bullshít.

Don't Chute!

end of the road wrote: »

rte don't have a hard on for lockdown and don't do hysteria.
most of the wider media don't do hysteria either.
we would absolutely be going to level 5 regardless because it's necessary to circuit break.

Claire Byrne recently had Pat Falvey on her show. Pat is an adventurer and has climbed Everest. Why was he on? To demonstrate to people how to dress for outdoor dining in Ireland during winter. I **** you not. If that isn’t hysteria I don’t know what is.

TheCitizen

joeguevara wrote: »

Lockdown decimates radio shows such as Newstalk as people mainly listen to it in the car. Doubt many people put the radio on at home, so saying that that a lockdown benefits radio doesn’t fit. Vast majority of people aren’t watching RTE. Netflix has completely cannibalised terrestrial TV.

Was there a reason you mentioned 9/11. Do you think there was an alternative protagonists involved than anything discussed? Do you see the irony that you believe anyone invited by RTE as an analyst or commentator is being spooned an agenda but when it comes to other anti belief bias, it’s thought provoking and mana. Journalists are not equipped to impart technical knowledge on this and wanting to constantly listen to any analyst ad hominem is damaging.

Do you think every leader in the EU is manufacturing an illusion of a virus s meltdown, all together in order for a massive heist or reset?

9-11 was a conspiracy to create easy media content for the Fake News channels. LOLz

topper75

end of the road wrote: »

everybody else in the EU have either had similar restrictions or are re-implementing them on a local basis where required by the way.
any piece of vermin engaging in abuse of their partners are responsible for their own actions and would be doing it covid or no covid, they must be prosecuted and locked up.
the we must live with the virus mantra is exactly what we have had since the beginning, it was always going to mean restrictions.

Yes many other countries are overreacting alongside Ireland to varying degrees. This does not negate Irish people's right to question the validity of the official position one bit.

Awful glib and trite statement there on domestic abuse. You've solved it seemingly - just lock them up! The nature of the restrictions remove what little sanctuary might have been there for some victims. Undeniable. I hope NPHET and Co. at least tried to factor it in with more gravitas than you.

Living with Covid and hiding everything and everybody away in panicked fashion are diametric 180 degree opposites. The former seeks to open as much as possible whilst avoiding spread. That 'living with' strategy was clearly abandoned in the last few days. Most questionable.

TheCitizen

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Claire Byrne recently had Pat Falvey on her show. Pat is an adventurer and has climbed Everest. Why was he on? To demonstrate to people how to dress for outdoor dining in Ireland during winter. I **** you not. If that isn’t hysteria I don’t know what is.

It’s hardly hysteria, just a silly idea for a soft story in her Current Affairs tv show. Some of the reaction on here is hysterical alright.

growleaves

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I guess that's true but every thread is guilty of that.

Mask thread is for the hardcore covid guys.
General thread has a bit of a debate and info but mostly RTE/party line.
This here is the refuge for the sceptics.

Echo chamber happens almost naturally. You post something somewhere, you get called an idiot, you may take a stand for a short while but eventually you go fk not going in there again.
Sign of the times I guess. No one ever backs down in an internet debate and everyone shouts all the time. People would never speak like that face to face. I'm as guilty as anyone.

My opinion is what I arrived at looking at all the information available to me and passed it through my life experience filter. Like everyone else. Only thing I know for sure is I dont know for sure and neither do you. None of us should forget that.

I think it is better for different stripes of opinion to have different threads or else the bickering could get too bitter.

Like you say people naturally separate.

That said I currently prefer the main thread - just as some pro-restrictions posters prefer this thread. The separation is not absolute.

Zebra3

end of the road wrote: »

the we must live with the virus mantra is exactly what we have had since the beginning, it was always going to mean restrictions.

But we are not living with the virus.

Maybe the WFH brigade who have kept their jobs and have more time with the kids and are saving a fortune on not commuting feel that way, but those who have lost their jobs, those who are struggling to keep their business afloat, and those who are in their 30s and are struggling to meet someone to have a family with, they are not living.

Their lives are miserable.

I'd be happy if we could live with the virus, but let's not pretend we're doing something that we're not.

Captain_Crash

TheCitizen wrote: »

Haven’t seen them. Have you a credible source for this? Are you talking about the public service announcements etc.?

Is there not a corollary to that in that because of lockdown RTÉ is losing funding and revenue. Shíte like the Rose of Tralee is a big money spinner for RTÉ so anything their pulling in from the government re “advertising” as you call it re Covid is out weighed elsewhere. All this sounds like conspiracy theory bullshít.

It was posted in this thread, or maybe part V, it was after a round of covid payments issued by the Government. I'll try and find it and post it, fairly sure I bookmarked it.

Edit: Found it quicker than planned: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/radio-stations-will-receive-up-to-95-000-under-covid-19-scheme-1.4223967
"The funding is available to cover costs “directly related” to the aim of enhancing public awareness and understanding of the health emergency and the closing date for applications is April 29th, with funding decisions “announced as soon as practicable”

Strumms

Zebra3 wrote: »

But we are not living with the virus.

Maybe the WFH brigade who have kept their jobs and have more time with the kids and are saving a fortune on not commuting feel that way, but those who have lost their jobs, those who are struggling to keep their business afloat, and those who are in their 30s and are struggling to meet someone to have a family with, they are not living.

Their lives are miserable.

I'd be happy if we could live with the virus, but let's not pretend we're doing something that we're not.

Id rather be alive and have those issues... then be strugling on a ventilator.same for friends and family..

Zebra3

Strumms wrote: »

Id rather be alive and have those issues... then be strugling on a ventilator.same for friends and family..

Ah yes, throw some emotional post up as opposed to dealing with the truth of what I posted.

Do you ever leave your home? Wouldn't want to leave the house in case you're in a car crash? Or go into the bank or shop in case there's a robbery when you're in there?

Captain_Crash

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It was posted in this thread, or maybe part V, it was after a round of covid payments issued by the Government. I'll try and find it and post it, fairly sure I bookmarked it.

Edit: Found it quicker than planned: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/radio-stations-will-receive-up-to-95-000-under-covid-19-scheme-1.4223967
"The funding is available to cover costs “directly related” to the aim of enhancing public awareness and understanding of the health emergency and the closing date for applications is April 29th, with funding decisions “announced as soon as practicable”

Can’t add the attachment with the amounts awarded. It’s too large! On a phone here so don’t know how to reduce its size

TheCitizen

Zebra3 wrote: »

But we are not living with the virus.

Maybe the WFH brigade who have kept their jobs and have more time with the kids and are saving a fortune on not commuting feel that way, but those who have lost their jobs, those who are struggling to keep their business afloat, and those who are in their 30s and are struggling to meet someone to have a family with, they are not living.

Their lives are miserable.

I'd be happy if we could live with the virus, but let's not pretend we're doing something that we're not.

The WFH brigade? This another cohort pushing for Lockdowns? LOL. Some on here clearly taking leave of whatever senses they had

Zebra3

TheCitizen wrote: »

The WFH brigade? This another cohort pushing for Lockdowns? LOL. Some on here clearly taking leave of whatever senses they had

There is no shortage of people who WFH that are delighted they don't have to go to the office.

Do you disagree with that?

average_runner

nacho libre wrote: »

I don't think there is sufficient evidence to say the virus has mutated and become weaker as a result.

Treatment now seems to be much better now than what it was. I forget what the exact stat is, but a lot less people are succumbing to it in ICU than they were back in April.

What has improved on the treatment side?

Captain_Crash

Zebra3 wrote: »

There is no shortage of people who WFH that are delighted they don't have to go to the office.

Do you disagree with that?

There is also no shortage of WFH people who hate these restrictions and would give all the money saved just to be able to get some normality back!!!

Stormyteacup

TheCitizen wrote: »

Haven’t seen them. Have you a credible source for this? Are you talking about the public service announcements etc.?

Is there not a corollary to that in that because of lockdown RTÉ is losing funding and revenue. Shíte like the Rose of Tralee is a big money spinner for RTÉ so anything their pulling in from the government re “advertising” as you call it re Covid is out weighed elsewhere. All this sounds like conspiracy theory bullshít.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40048235.html%3ftype=amp

4.38 million on broadcasting re Covid so far.

No breakdown as to who got what.

It’s not a huge amount relative to normal advertising revenues but there’s most definitely a vested interest in maintaining ad money from government to mitigate expected losses for this year.

Also would imagine if RTÉ can point to increased viewership for this year they can argue for more state support to keep them afloat as they are providing an important service of keeping people informed, and thus essential during any future potential crisis.

TheCitizen

Zebra3 wrote: »

There is no shortage of people who WFH that are delighted they don't have to go to the office.

Do you disagree with that?

When this is over WFH should be more prevalent. It was always something that was on the way. Covid has accelerated the process. Makes a lot more sense where practicable than everyone sitting in traffic.

average_runner

Zebra3 wrote: »

There is no shortage of people who WFH that are delighted they don't have to go to the office.

Do you disagree with that?

Work from home as its advantages and disadvantages. Wouldn't mine a 3 day home and 2 day office.


As for the commute, not saving much on that side as driving kids to school and back which costs more !!!

Strumms

Zebra3 wrote: »

Ah yes, throw some emotional post up as opposed to dealing with the truth of what I posted.

Do you ever leave your home? Wouldn't want to leave the house in case you're in a car crash? Or go into the bank or shop in case there's a robbery when you're in there?

Yes... im frequently of the want and requirment to leave my home

The occurences of car crashes and bank robberies are far far less .. than incidents of people catching covid...
they are miniscule in comparisson... risk assesment would have me say its ok to drive to xx but not ok to dismiss the need of further restrictions

joeguevara

TheCitizen wrote: »

9-11 was a conspiracy to create easy media content for the Fake News channels. LOLz

Lizard people

Johnboy1951

charlie14 wrote: »

The opposite could also be the case. There are countries that are under-reporting for various reasons. There is one I know that only records a death due to Covid-19 if someone passes within 30 days of being a confirmed case, and bizarrely if in ICU passes within 40 days.

I take it then you do not have the answer to the question posed ...

is it a figure based on those who passed returning a positive test, whether or not they developed a serious case of Covid which actually killed them?

...... or else chose not to answer NO.

Stormyteacup

average_runner wrote: »

What has improved on the treatment side?

I was speaking to an ICU nurse recently and he told me that they are administering CPAP earlier and also IV steroids sooner, which has improved outcomes in patients.

It’s encouraging, and hopefully they’ll continue to improve treatments.

Captain_Crash

Stormyteacup wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40048235.html%3ftype=amp

4.38 million on broadcasting re Covid so far.

No breakdown as to who got what.

It’s not a huge amount relative to normal advertising revenues but there’s most definitely a vested interest in maintaining ad money from government to mitigate expected losses for this year.

Also would imagine if RTÉ can point to increased viewership for this year they can argue for more state support to keep them afloat as they are providing an important service of keeping people informed, and thus essential during any future potential crisis.

I have a breakdown here, but cant upload it as the file is too large. But a quick snippet...

Clare FM: €95,000
Northern Sound: €91,945
FM104: €70,000
Tipp FM: €95,000
Q102: €44,445
Red FM: €60,000

The list contains I'd say up to 30 radio stations

froog

Zebra3 wrote: »

But we are not living with the virus.

Maybe the WFH brigade who have kept their jobs and have more time with the kids and are saving a fortune on not commuting feel that way, but those who have lost their jobs, those who are struggling to keep their business afloat, and those who are in their 30s and are struggling to meet someone to have a family with, they are not living.

Their lives are miserable.

I'd be happy if we could live with the virus, but let's not pretend we're doing something that we're not.

It's a global pandemic. Things will be **** until it burns itself out or we get a vaccine. Not sure how some people think they should be able to live their normal lives. There is a level of delusion/denial in this country that is pretty staggering.

TheCitizen

Stormyteacup wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40048235.html%3ftype=amp

4.38 million on broadcasting re Covid so far.

No breakdown as to who got what.

It’s not a huge amount relative to normal advertising revenues but there’s most definitely a vested interest in maintaining ad money from government to mitigate expected losses for this year.

Also would imagine if RTÉ can point to increased viewership for this year they can argue for more state support to keep them afloat as they are providing an important service of keeping people informed, and thus essential during any future potential crisis.

They’re being paid to produce public service content. Do you expect it to cost nothing?

Next thing we’ll be told that those paid to provide public information re drunk or dangerous driving have a vested interest in the continuation of drunk or dangerous driving.