Schools closed until February? (part 3)

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Well Sam McConkey let a little slip last week on Claire Byrne show

What did he say?

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What did he say?

Oh something along the lines of numbers will go down while the schools are closed for the holidays

lawrencesummers

khalessi wrote: »

Oh something along the lines of numbers will go down while the schools are closed for the holidays

Except they won’t while people are meeting in other settings.

Not that I have a problem with either, there is an acceptable level of risk that we have to link to the amount of cases among other factors.

khalessi

Interesting read
https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1335604527639252994

lawrencesummers

khalessi wrote: »

Interesting read
https://twitter.com/oliveblogs/status/1335604527639252994

Don’t forget we were also told that the “data doesn’t show schools Are a problem” . Where it transpires that they didn’t have the Data in the first place and should have been saying the data doesn’t exist to prove or disprove it.

Again I don’t have a problem with schools being open, the virus will spread a bit but most kids are not in danger. What should have happened is school Kids sharing a home with high risk vulnerable people should have been given the option for home schooling all along.

Blondini

All people except the ignorant and deluded, accept that one fifth of the population effectively forced to disregard the restrictions, and with different rules regarding testing and definitions of contacts etc, is going to be a problem.

No, I don't want schools closed, but this will all come out in the wash eventually.

Cases are under control and schools are open. This has been a phenomenal success compared to the rest of Europe, many of which have had periods of school closures, and restrictions at or above our levels.

With 1 million kids going to schools everyday it would be bizarre if they weren't among the higher case numbers. There is no other sector in the report with close to that number of people interacting everyday. It is also a fact that healthcare facilities have been the major issue over the past month

JDD

Schoolchildren and students are over 1m of our population. That's 20%. Yet they are only 6.2% of positive cases. And that's with three months of being indoors with 25-30 other individuals most with no masks.

Now, we have to caveat that by saying schoolchildren and students may be well be 30 or 40% of our actual infections, if you take the view that most children with very mild covid symptoms will not be put forward for a test, and perhaps there is much wider asymptomatic infections than the WHO and other agencies have indicated. This may well be the truth. But so far our data has not captured those children, if they exist.

meeeeh

I'm not going to bother with Indo paywall but is that absolute number or per capita. Because if it's absolute no 1 million covers huge part of population. Did anyone do how many infections are among 2.3 million of working population in comparison?

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

With 1 million kids going to schools everyday it would be bizarre if they weren't among the higher case numbers.

Jesus that is a fair swing in the narrative.

Anyone who even suggested such a thing on here in the past few months would have got a personal slap down from your good self, citing data, etc.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus that is a fair swing in the narrative.

Anyone who even suggested such a thing on here in the past few months would have got a personal slap down from your good self, citing data, etc.

I refer you to my post on this matter from July.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114172565&postcount=8517

Infections will rise, some schools will close, but I would guess it will be more likely due to cases coming in rather than coming from the schools, but we have put ourselves a min a position where we can have a level of control, and we have to use it to get the systems right to deal with this on an ongoing basis, as we can’t depend on a vaccine, even though I am positive about that.

I don’t believe that government are doing enough, but the guidelines are realistic and will prevent spread, maybe not enough, but I am realistic enough to know that in the absence of isolating the country from the rest of the world completely, There will be cases . Each school and each community has a part to play in making the control in schools as strong as it can be within the constraints that are with. On considering what the teachers are saying... I do, but here is the thing, there is a lot of fear in excess of the actual risk. Any mitigation is a benefit. Those with conditions should be supported and we should continuously seek to challenge to achieve better work environments. Ultimately though if the cases rise significantly, it’s a societal failure, not just a school issue

wirelessdude01

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus that is a fair swing in the narrative.

Anyone who even suggested such a thing on here in the past few months would have got a personal slap down from your good self, citing data, etc.

Ah, good old data. Can swing whatever way you want to paint something. Much like statistics it only shows what you want it to show.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus that is a fair swing in the narrative.

Anyone who even suggested such a thing on here in the past few months would have got a personal slap down from your good self, citing data, etc.

How is that exactly? If everyone who can work from home is working from home, thus limiting general contacts, wouldn't it stand to reason that there would be higher case numbers in schools than there is in the population of people limiting their contacts??

None of us said that children wouldn't get it, just that because it is less likely to make them significantly ill attending school is more beneficial for them than not.

You can't just take a load of information with no context and put it forward as proof of something. All this is proof of is that schools are open and that other parts of society aren't open.

Boggles

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Ah, good old data. Can swing whatever way you want to paint something. Much like statistics it only shows what you want it to show.

Yes, stats, much like a bikini very revealing.

But they tend to hide the most important parts.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

But they tend to hide the most important parts.

Only from those who can't read and don't understand them.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Yes, stats, much like a bikini very revealing.

But they tend to hide the most important parts.

Lets work off anecdote and rumour instead so. I heard the Pfizer vaccine works. No need for the ECDC to look at the data.

meeeeh

Can someone tell me weather that a comparison of absolute numbers or per capita among groups. Just so we know we are not comparing cases in vastly different population size?

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets work off anecdote and rumour instead so.

So data you don't like is anecdote and rumour?

I think you just proved my point TBH.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

So data you don't like is anecdote and rumour?

I think you just proved my point TBH.

You just said that the data was hiding the most important parts.

Let's talk about the secondary school in Limerick with 6 Covid positive cases amongst the teaching staff, shall we?

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

You just said that the data was hiding the most important parts.

Pretty sure I said "stats".

Lillyfae wrote: »

Let's talk about the secondary school in Limerick with 15+ Covid positive cases amongst the teaching staff, shall we?

You can talk amount whatever you want, it's not up to me.

JimmyVik

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets work off anecdote and rumour instead so. I heard the Pfizer vaccine works. No need for the ECDC to look at the data.

Im a bit lost the last few pages.
Have nphet or the HSE been totally honest with correct numbers on schools or not?

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Pretty sure I said "stats".

"Stats" are data.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Can someone tell me weather that a comparison of absolute numbers or per capita among groups. Just so we know we are not comparing cases in vastly different population size?

Raw unprocessed data direct from HSPC website lest I be accused of cherry picking stats to suit a narrative.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

"Stats" are data.

Nope.

In the same way 50,000 words is not a book unless they are arranged as such.

But tell me about 15 teachers that tested positive in a school in Limerick.

I can't find anything about it.

JimmyVik

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im a bit lost the last few pages.
Have nphet or the HSE been totally honest with correct numbers on schools or not?

Is there evidence they haven't been? Any that has been presented would be too flimsy for even Rudy Guiliani

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

In the same way 50,000 words is not a book unless they are arranged as such.

But tell me about 15 teachers that tested positive in a school in Limerick.

I can't find anything about it.

Data. noun facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.

Statistics noun the numerical facts or data themselves.

Stormyteacup

JimmyVik wrote: »

Im a bit lost the last few pages.
Have nphet or the HSE been totally honest with correct numbers on schools or not?

Totally honest? - perhaps as it is true that stats and evidence have not shown to date that schools are a significant source of transmission.

Basically they are covered either way as if they did mass testing and full tracing in schools and discovered that students are contributing to spread more than reported previously, they can claim they did not have this data/evidence... until they did.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Data. noun facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.

Statistics noun the numerical facts or data themselves.

Oh Goody. Definitions.

What is the difference between Data and Statistics? In regular conversation, both words are often used interchangeably. ... Data is the raw information from which statistics are created. Put in the reverse, statistics provide an interpretation and summary of data

Lillyfae

Before we have another 3 pages of hair- splitting:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-15-teachers-forced-to-self-isolate-after-outbreak-in-limerick-school-1.4427010

My original post was incorrect, I'll edit. 6 positive teachers, 15 self isolating. No reported cases in student population.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

Before we have another 3 pages of hair- splitting:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/covid-19-15-teachers-forced-to-self-isolate-after-outbreak-in-limerick-school-1.4427010

My original post was incorrect, I'll edit. 6 positive teachers, 15 self isolating. No reported cases in student population.

I wouldn't call that hair splitting, that's a hefty "misinterpretation" of pretty pertinent details.

15 is a lot > 6

Statistically.