Schools closed until February? (part 3)

mollser

Ok, there's a bit of logic to the idea actually. But it's using Covid as leverage for more holidays which is dispicable - they could have recommended moving the holidays by 2.5 days and restarting earlier in January.

Because they failed to present that as an option, they can fock right off.

Thank you!

Blondini

eviltwin wrote: »

The only ones who should be embarrassed are the unions. Only back a matter of weeks and already struggling.

Months, and who is struggling exactly?

Baffling.

I'm out. Have a nice day.

thomasdylan

Boggles wrote: »

Again, your outrage is clouding reality.

They are not teachers I thought that would have been clear and it has absolutely nothing to do with heart strings.

It's a sound idea to limit possible spread of infection to vulnerable people.

Would you agree?

14 days is the isolation time.

KaneToad

Russman wrote: »

I'm not a teacher nor do I have anything to do with the public service.

But f--k me we're some nation of begrudgers. If I can't have it neither can they.
FFS its two days where nothing will be done anyway and it might, just might, make the difference of being able to safely visit someone over the Christmas or potentially bringing COVID into a household.
But no, its all "it mustn't inconvenience me" or "I don't get two days off why should they" or "ohh no I'll have to get childcare". Bloody hell if it snowed for two days they'd be off and no amount of complaining would change that.

I think you're misinterpreting the opposition as begrudgery. Your statement about childcare speaks volumes. You either:

a) have no children/childcare needs
b) have free childcare from friends/relations

KaneToad

Blondini wrote: »

Funny to see the spitting, seething, ignorant and angry anti-teacher crowd slither out of the damp woodwork at a non-story.

Embarrassing themselves as usual.

It's not anti teacher to comment, negatively, on a union statement. The TUI did, in fact, make that statement. Voicing opposition to it, on a discussion forum, is hardly "spitting, seething, ignorant and angry" - with the exception of the lazy posts that imply teachers do very little.

Cluedo Monopoly

The teachers and their unions need to stop moaning and whinging and just do their jobs. I think the public are sick of their nonsense.
2 weeks at Xmas is more than enough. They get another week off on February 12th (9 days off in fact). Easter not long afterwards.
Such self absorbed entitlement.

Blondini

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The teachers and their unions need to stop moaning and whinging and just do their jobs.
2 weeks at Xmas is more than enough. They get another week off on February 12th (9 days off in fact).
Such self absorbed entitlement.

I don't know one single teacher who asked for this.

Sorry to rain on your illinformed and bitter ramblings with the facts.

Cluedo Monopoly

Blondini wrote: »

I don't know one single teacher who asked for this.

Sorry to rain on your illinformed and bitter ramblings with the facts.

Well then get your unions to shut up if they are not representing your wishes.

Better performance appraisals is what teachers should be looking for. Some of them were woeful during the first lockdown.

Boggles

thomasdylan wrote: »

14 days is the isolation time.

What do you mean?

The advice if you are a close contact or coming into the country from a non designated "safe zone"?

You do realize there are people in the country that are not dangerously stupid and haven't been swallowing the "advice" of governance since the start of this pandemic.

Like choosing to wear a mask from the start or not visiting a nursing home because they didn't think they would be mean not doing it.

I know, mind blown, right?

lulublue22

KaneToad wrote: »

Teachers could do with a recharge. But so could everyone else. A teacher's recharge would add to the stress of working parents who then have to cover the teacher's recharge.

It's not gonna happen.

I know its not going to happen - no one I know has even hinted at this or raised it as an issue - The first I heard of it was this morning in this thread. I was trying to highlight that may not be that teachers need to recharge - but more that some teachers have genuine concerns and worries re high risk family at xmas. We have made our decision and will go ahead regardless - extra days won’t change that.

Russman

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

Yeah, teachers want a morale boosting early Christmas holidays - https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/teachers-seek-morale-boosting-early-christmas-holidays-to-reduce-covid-risks-39760736.html

I honestly don't know if teachers are just tone deaf to public opinion or they just don't care as I can see great public support for this.

If they were smart and wanted more time off they could have suggested an extra public holiday for everyone to "recharge" given the year that's in it - unlikely to happen for many reasons though. At least other groups might have backed that and put pressure on the government.

Meanwhile my wife who is also public sector is literally working in the middle of an outbreak in UHL.

dinneenp wrote: »

Also covered in the IT- link.

Totally ridiculous I believe- "moral boosting"; sure wouldn't all professions like some moral boosting? As mentioned above they're either not tuned in or don't care.

thomasdylan wrote: »

I think it was the TUI. They're usually the least self-indulgent and blinkered of the teachers unions it was a bit of a surprise from them.

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Teachers have been working the least number of days of any sector since the pandemic started, by far. That is why it is laughable, the kids will have been in school for about 15 weeks since mid march! I suggested previously that holidays could be moved around to allow time off during times with higher covid rates. That was shot down as apparently holidays are sacred. I suppose the department regards the days you are supposed to be in as sacred. Flexibility is a 2 way street.

dinneenp wrote: »

"Spend time with their loved ones." That's pulling at heart strings. Teachers get more than enough holidays throughout the year & will have about 2.5 or more weeks off over Xmas as it is.

How about people who aren't working at home & would have to take extra holidays or people who are working from home and have then to look after their kids while juggling work as well.

Why don't other public workers get the additional days then to "spend time with their loved ones." Virtually all public sector workers (besides teachers) have standard public sector holidays, far, far less than teachers so they'd appreciate the extra time to spend with their loved ones, wouldn't they?

eviltwin wrote: »

Teachers unions have always had an over inflated impression of the job. They are doing great work atm but so are many others in just as challenging conditions and many of them don’t have a two week break over Christmas to look forward to.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The teachers and their unions need to stop moaning and whinging and just do their jobs. I think the public are sick of their nonsense.
2 weeks at Xmas is more than enough. They get another week off on February 12th (9 days off in fact). Easter not long afterwards.
Such self absorbed entitlement.

KaneToad wrote: »

I think you're misinterpreting the opposition as begrudgery. Your statement about childcare speaks volumes. You either:

a) have no children/childcare needs
b) have free childcare from friends/relations

You don't think any of the above smacks of begrudgery then ? Really ?

Blondini

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Well then get your unions to shut up if they are not representing your wishes.

Better performance appraisals is what teachers should be looking for. Some of them were woeful during the first lockdown.

I'm not in a union and don't have any wishes.

Working hard there yourself this morning I see with all this free time to waffle on about something you know nothing about.

Have a nice day.

lulublue22

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The teachers and their unions need to stop moaning and whinging and just do their jobs. I think the public are sick of their nonsense.
2 weeks at Xmas is more than enough. They get another week off on February 12th (9 days off in fact). Easter not long afterwards.
Such self absorbed entitlement.

There are 3 teaching unions - I can’t tell another union to stfu as Ive no idea what issues they ate going to raise. As for Feb - we don’t have a week off. We have 2 days.

HerrKuehn

Russman wrote: »

You don't think any of the above smacks of begrudgery then ? Really ?

If there was flexibility from teaching unions, i don't think people would have a problem with it. I'm sure very few would have any issues with hospital staff getting extra holidays this year to cover the extra work for example.

Lillyfae

lulublue22 wrote: »

There are 3 teaching unions - I can’t tell another union to stfu as Ive no idea what issues they ate going to raise. As for Feb - we don’t have a week off. We have 2 days.

To be fair, two out of those three have now asked for closures. Is it the other one that you're in?

Cluedo Monopoly

lulublue22 wrote: »

There are 3 teaching unions - I can’t tell another union to stfu as Ive no idea what issues they ate going to raise. As for Feb - we don’t have a week off. We have 2 days.

Many schools have the week and you know it. Otherwise they get the 3 days elsewhere.

dinneenp

Boggles wrote: »

Again, your outrage is clouding reality.

They are not teachers I thought that would have been clear and it has absolutely nothing to do with heart strings.

It's a sound idea to limit possible spread of infection to vulnerable people.

Would you agree?

It's been said that schools are generally safe, Covid isn't spreading through pupils or teachers.

"Spend more time with their loved ones" is a statement pulling at heart strings.

You go on the assumption that you don't have Covid, if you think you do should self-isolate for 14 days. By reducing school by 2 days and if you see vulnerable people over Xmas you'd still be spreading it, the 2 days won't have any effect.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Russman wrote: »

You don't think any of the above smacks of begrudgery then ? Really ?

I was merely drawing a comparison between different people in the public sector and the different situation they face during Covid. But look if you or others are so unhappy voice your concerns to the Department of Education and your union, or go on strike, or work with the current situation, or change career, or give up you job and apply for Jobseeker's Benefit.

At the end of the day a job is a job and we are all, regardless of our industry, replaceable and expendable. No point allowing a job create huge amounts of stress and unhappiness for any of us.

Russman

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

I was merely drawing a comparison between different people in the public sector and the different situation they face during Covid. But look if you or others are so unhappy voice your concerns to the Department of Education and your union, go on strike, work with the current situation, change career, or give up you job and apply for Jobseeker's Benefit.

At the end of the day a job is a job and we are all, regardless of our industry, replaceable and expendable. No point allowing a job create huge amounts of stress and unhappiness for any of us.

??? Who said anything about being unhappy ? Why would I voice my concerns ? I've nothing to do with the department of Education nor any union.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

Russman

HerrKuehn wrote: »

If there was flexibility from teaching unions, i don't think people would have a problem with it. I'm sure very few would have any issues with hospital staff getting extra holidays this year to cover the extra work for example.

Absolutely.

I've no idea of the politics of the unions and the Department and where flexibility might or might not come into it, I was really just commenting on the instant outrage at the suggestion of two extra days off.
IMO these are unprecedented times we're living in and we can't always view things through our own narrow economic glasses.

Boggles

dinneenp wrote: »

It's been said that schools are generally safe, Covid isn't spreading through pupils or teachers.

Lots of things have been said during this that was either untrue or downright dangerous.

dinneenp wrote: »

You go on the assumption that you don't have Covid, if you think you do should self-isolate for 14 days. By reducing school by 2 days and if you see vulnerable people over Xmas you'd still be spreading it, the 2 days won't have any effect.

Did I mention 2 days? Anyway you would be effectively reducing it by 4 days plus 3 more before Christmas day.

The median incubation period for COVID‐19 is four to five days. Most symptomatic people experience symptoms within two to seven days after exposure

Again, I'll ask once more, do you think isolating before visiting potentially vulnerable people at Christmas is a sound idea?

HerrKuehn

Russman wrote: »

Absolutely.

I've no idea of the politics of the unions and the Department and where flexibility might or might not come into it, I was really just commenting on the instant outrage at the suggestion of two extra days off.
IMO these are unprecedented times we're living in and we can't always view things through our own narrow economic glasses.

Well, you see there isn't flexibility from teaching unions, so everyone should just do what was agreed and in the contract.

Russman

dinneenp wrote: »

It's been said that schools are generally safe, Covid isn't spreading through pupils or teachers.

"Spend more time with their loved ones" is a statement pulling at heart strings.

You go on the assumption that you don't have Covid, if you think you do should self-isolate for 14 days. By reducing school by 2 days and if you see vulnerable people over Xmas you'd still be spreading it, the 2 days won't have any effect.

I think the point was that if a parent was exposed to the virus by a child on the Friday there is a better chance of them developing symptoms before Christmas Day and thus maybe avoiding visiting someone, than if they were exposed on the following Tuesday and visiting someone only 3 days later when they might not yet be aware. Its obviously not 100% guaranteed but its got to be a good percentage safer.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Russman wrote: »

??? Who said anything about being unhappy ? Why would I voice my concerns ? I've nothing to do with the department of Education nor any union.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

I thought you were a teacher, apologies.

I have seen so many people miserable in jobs and although I could sympathise with them up to a point, if they weren't doing anything to change their situation then it just becomes complaining. I've moved jobs for better opportunities etc. but have also moved once or twice because for one reason or another the job was making me unhappy. One job that stands out I left due to job instability and the chance the company could go under any day. My monthly salary was being paid a week here and there as the cashflow was so poor. Best decision I ever made to move on from there, it was really impacting my morale and mental health.

Russman

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Well, you see there isn't flexibility from teaching unions, so everyone should just do what was agreed and in the contract.

I'm not 100% sure I'm getting your point, but that's ok.
If you're suggesting there could/should be some sort of quid pro quo in return, then I've no issue with that at all, there totally should be.

Russman

Armani Gray Redcoat wrote: »

I thought you were a teacher, apologies.

I have seen so many people miserable in jobs and although I could sympathise with them up to a point, if they weren't doing anything to change their situation then it just becomes complaining. I've moved jobs for better opportunities etc. but have also moved once or twice because for one reason or another the job was making me unhappy. One job that stands out I left due to job instability and the chance the company could go under any day. My monthly salary was being paid a week here and there as the cashflow was so poor. Best decision I ever made to move on from there, it was really impacting my morale and mental health.

No worries. I totally get your point. I've moved myself in the past purely because I hated the place, everything else was fine, the colleagues, the location etc. but the pressure from mgt was mad.

Icyseanfitz

thomasdylan wrote: »

Rosters for over Christmas for emergency services and loads of other jobs have been made weeks ago. Parents will have very understandably accounted for the standing school holidays.

This 'morale booster' for teachers would cause lots of difficulties for a huge amount of other workers. I remember your reaction to the prospect of redeployment a few months ago. Everyone's actions have knock-on effects for everyone else.

Oh is that the absolute ****ing joke that was the attempt to redeploy SNAs into elder care homes as medical assistants, i suppose you believe that was perfectly acceptable :mad:

Mrsmum

It's not even two days, it's a day and a half which effectively means one day being problematic for those that need childcare since the half day is already problematic anyway and for that families gain four days in terms of Covid safety, provided of course they don't do the opposite and go wild those days ! And yes surely it could be given back from midterm, Easter.

JDD

I don't see why they can't move the Christmas holidays so that the kids come back on January 4th instead of January 6th, and finish up the Friday before Christmas. It seems sensible to allow some time for a family to restrict their movements before inviting elderly relatives over for Christmas Day. I think the teachers unions went about it the wrong way by making the early finish focus on teachers, rather than protecting everyone from further spread of the virus.

Raind, I see you posted that Cornell study. I'm afraid I'm no scientist so I can't really understand it, but how many people were included in the study? Did they pick them at random and test them? Or are they just reviewing the results of tests already completed in the community?

SusanC10

I think that the Schools should close on Friday December 18th.
It would give people a week then before Christmas Day. Which is better than 3 days.
In school terms it's a day and a half where the kids will not be actually doing school work anyway.