Green Party questioning Travellers intelligence?

riffmongous

is_that_so wrote: »

Poor communication either way. "Talk to folks at a level they'll understand" is much better condescending way to say it! Personally a fan of the art of paraphrasing as it can avoid those absolutely precise but confusing words that people may not know.

If you look beyond the 'big words' headline that's what says

Panrich

riffmongous wrote: »

I grew up in a rural village and I never once heard anyone talking about biodiversity. Do I think every country person knows exactly what they mean? Not a chance, I'm sure almost everyone could figure it out quickly but you're not going to connect with your audience that way.

It's hard to take this thread seriously tbh, if a green party person called round to any of the usual people here and starting talking to them about biodiversity they'd be straight away online afterwards starting a thread going on about how out of touch with the common farmer the green party are. Any excuse here just to have a go at them

And what about Ballymun or Clondalkin? Do they talk much about biodiversity around the dinner table there?

riffmongous

Panrich wrote: »

And what about Ballymun or Clondalkin? Do they talk much about biodiversity around the dinner table there?

Was she talking about clondalkin?

Marhay70

Oh good, another reason for Travellers to be offended.

Gruffalux

Ms Garvey also advised party members to: "Wear the Clare jersey, go to the hurling matches, get to know your local priest."

Haha she is gas. A tweed hat too? A shillelagh maybe? Chew on a stalk of wild cereal from the hedgerow? Maybe you could go all in and use a switch to drive a fat heifer before you wherever you go, calling out "hup!"?

is_that_so

riffmongous wrote: »

If you look beyond the 'big words' headline that's what says

Did they really have to turn it into junior infant mode?

Let's talk about the flowers, talk about the cattle. Talk about the robin, the sparrow…

I think colloquialism is important and I think simple vocabulary includes everybody.

My version of it

It's important you try to relate what you are saying to people and what they do in their lives so stay from the big words and long-winded speeches!

Panrich

riffmongous wrote: »

Was she talking about clondalkin?

No but that’s the issue. Is there a better understanding of green buzzwords in Clondalkin than Clonakilty? She indicated that there was because one is rural.

Yamanoto

Yurt! wrote: »

That's not the Green Party I recognize in the slightest.'

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/generational-divide-within-green-party-cannot-be-glossed-over-1.4291746

riffmongous

Panrich wrote: »

No but that’s the issue. Is there a better understanding of green buzzwords in Clondalkin than Clonakilty? She indicated that there was because one is rural.

She was specifically addressing rural activists, nothing to do with Clondalkin

Everlong1

Gruffalux wrote: »

Haha. I will run with that today for my identity let the party commence. It knocks about 30 years off my age, probably changes my sex and makes up for being labeled a sexist right wing homophobe earlier in the week. Woohoo! Pass the spliff, man.

Glad to be of service.

Everlong1

Gruffalux wrote: »

Ms Garvey also advised party members to: "Wear the Clare jersey, go to the hurling matches, get to know your local priest."

Haha she is gas. A tweed hat too? A shillelagh maybe? Chew on a stalk of wild cereal from the hedgerow? Maybe you could go all in and use a switch to drive a fat heifer before you wherever you go, calling out "hup!"?

It might be an inconvenient truth but she's right. Simple common sense if you want Paddy's vote. In fact if they really want to become a mass movement they should hold some workshop / masterclass sessions in how to carry two pints at all times in case you run into a senior member of Government down the local.

meeeeh

Fighting Tao wrote: »

People get their knickers in a twist so easily these days.

Communication is only effective if the receiver understands the message. For example, there is no point in an IT expert using technical jargon to those who don’t understand. They have to change words and rephrase into such a manner to assist the message transmission. It is up to the message sender to ensure that the receiver can understand. From all I see here, that is what is going on.

I live in rural area. My neighbours are relatively big farmers, business owners, doctors, teachers, engineers, pharmacists, accountants and similar. I don't think telling us that we don't understand big words will solve their problem.

Despite what green party leftwing thinks their main base is middle class, relatively educated and enthusiastic about going to farmers market and doing a bit of cycling on their holidays. SF and to some extent FF will hoover up voters who don't do big words. Green party are more in danger of alienating well off rural votes they could get than winning any new ones with talking about birds and bees.

Buford T. Justice XIX

riffmongous wrote: »

Yeah and the local councillor talks like that when he's around the village or at a hurling match does he?:rolleyes:

Actually, one of my local councillors does.

He's in my local discussion group also and we would have many discussions both at meetings and outside in day to day life about similar issues. I wouldn't be a fan of his party but he readily gets our votes because he can discuss our issues with us as equals. We don't always agree with each other but we can and do discuss issues as equals.

Imagine that, discussing issues with folks as equals, absolutely mindblowing concept!

OscarMIlde

Panrich wrote: »

And what about Ballymun or Clondalkin? Do they talk much about biodiversity around the dinner table there?

There are plenty of very intelligent people in Clondalkin. It's a working class Dublin area that established an Irish speaking community centre, TWO primary gaelscoileanna, and a secondary gealscoil, at a time when it was neither trendy nor government supported to undertake such measures.

TomTomTim

Everlong1 wrote: »

It might be an inconvenient truth but she's right. .

You're overlooking the point. They singled out rural people for this, when it's just as applicable to people who live in cities.

riffmongous

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Actually, one of my local councillors does.

He's in my local discussion group also and we would have many discussions both at meetings and outside in day to day life about similar issues. I wouldn't be a fan of his party but he readily gets our votes because he can discuss our issues with us as equals. We don't always agree with each other but we can and do discuss issues as equals.

Imagine that, discussing issues with folks as equals, absolutely mindblowing concept!

As you notice yourself, it's atypical.

LuasSimon

The greens could do with talking to travellers about. whipping horses and racing them on public roads . Horses are not able to race or trot on road surfaces especially carrying a fat traveller in a chariot as well .

Travellers treatment of horses on roads is the biggest form of animal cruelty on our island but like everything else travellers get away with it .

Buford T. Justice XIX

riffmongous wrote: »

As you notice yourself, it's atypical.

Curiously, I haven't noticed any outrage from fellow GP attendees at that convention about their attitudes to equality for rural dwellers and Travellers.

I mean, if that attitude was atypical, surely some body of members would have objected and pointed out the fallacies in her presentation and that all voters should be treated equally?

Very curious, that.

Perhaps they might be better served by sorting out their own inadequacies than pointing out others perceived shortcomings?

Fighting Tao

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Please modify your speech to the target audience.. there nobody insulted or patronised. Fianna Fail canvassers have this down to a fine art.. all things to all men

The speech was modified to the target audience, the Green Party convention. I really don’t get why people are getting so offended. We all modify our speech for the target audience. The target audience here was not the rural population or travellers.

SEPT 23 1989

Why would country folk vote for a party who wants to see the destruction of their livelihoods and way of life?

riffmongous

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Curiously, I haven't noticed any outrage from fellow GP attendees at that convention about their attitudes to equality for rural dwellers and Travellers.

I mean, if that attitude was atypical, surely some body of members would have objected and pointed out the fallacies in her presentation and that all voters should be treated equally?

Very curious, that.

Perhaps they might be better served by sorting out their own inadequacies than pointing out others perceived shortcomings?

Ah come off it, of course you have to talk to people differently. Do you think farmers don't treat people differently when there is a farming discussion outside the farming forum? Do doctors talk the same way to patients that they would to other doctors?

You can still treat people as equals without treating them equally in every sense, and that's what she was actually saying, treat them normally, don't try to be all high and migthy and try to relate and talk to them instead

"I think colloquialism is important and I think simple vocabulary includes everybody.

"It's not your job to show off that you know cool terms when you’re canvassing. It's to show that you can relate to everybody," she said.

CFC1969

Yamanoto wrote: »

Perhaps that was true back in the day, but the younger wing of the party (including those who vehemently opposed entry into coalition government) are cultural Marxists and SJW's, who's policies are a world away from insulating your attic, taxing carbon and brewing up some elderflower wine.

100%. Their beliefs are international, and see no issues with damaging the Irish economy ( Taxes, Job losses) to meet their goals

StackSteevens

OscarMIlde wrote: »

There are plenty of very intelligent people in Clondalkin. It's a working class Dublin area that established an Irish speaking community centre, TWO primary gaelscoileanna, and a secondary gealscoil, at a time when it was neither trendy nor government supported to undertake such measures.

What leads you to imagine that that's evidence of intelligence?

Fighting Tao

meeeeh wrote: »

I live in rural area. My neighbours are relatively big farmers, business owners, doctors, teachers, engineers, pharmacists, accountants and similar. I don't think telling us that we don't understand big words will solve their problem.

Despite what green party leftwing thinks their main base is middle class, relatively educated and enthusiastic about going to farmers market and doing a bit of cycling on their holidays. SF and to some extent FF will hoover up voters who don't do big words. Green party are more in danger of alienating well off rural votes they could get than winning any new ones with talking about birds and bees.

Unless they are Green Party members, she was telling your neighbours that they don’t understand big words.

meeeeh

Fighting Tao wrote: »

The speech was modified to the target audience, the Green Party convention. I really don’t get why people are getting so offended. We all modify our speech for the target audience. The target audience here was not the rural population or travellers.

It's never good to be condescending whoever your message is for. I actually understand what she wanted to say but her delivery wasall wrong. They also never be party for all people and maybe they should decide weather they want to compete for narrow base People Before Profit occupy or go for comfortable class who can afford organic pork or makes vegan dinners from scratch, buy A rated homes and so on. In know there is Greta generation but only some will have buying power their parents have. And frankly retro fit insulation iniciatives will make absolutely no difference to the life of those who can't afford their own home. Green Party are party of people with disposable income. To make themselves attractive to less educated poorer people they will first have to change their policies.

She would look well in a hiace.

Sacrolyte

Yurt! wrote: »

That's not the Green Party I recognize in the slightest. Activists I know are architects, engineers, scientists and in other skilled occupations. Have their head screwed on and are a degree more thoughtful with a more defined vision for the economy and society than the average yahoo from the 'big 2' parties, who can often be just loudmouths on-the-make.

They have an image problem in rural areas, but then again there are parts (only parts mind you) of rural Ireland that are completely resistant to sensible planning and a farming lobby that for the longest time thought it was their constitutioanal right to harm our shared environment (again, they're slowly coming around to the ideas that the environment is there for us all).

That said, this Senator's notions on rural voters and 'big words' are patronising sh*te. The neighbors either side of my homestead, well in the sticks would eat her for breakfast with 'big words.'

I think what you say about farming is insulting.
The reason since God was a boy for farming was to feed the planet not destroy it.

OscarMIlde

OscarMIlde wrote: »

There are plenty of very intelligent people in Clondalkin. It's a working class Dublin area that established an Irish speaking community centre, TWO primary gaelscoileanna, and a secondary gealscoil, at a time when it was neither trendy nor government supported to undertake such measures.

Plenty wealthy folk around monastery rd also. It's not all working class.

MrMusician18

riffmongous wrote: »

I grew up in a rural village and I never once heard anyone talking about biodiversity. Do I think every country person knows exactly what they mean? Not a chance, I'm sure almost everyone could figure it out quickly but you're not going to connect with your audience that way.

It's hard to take this thread seriously tbh, if a green party person called round to any of the usual people here and starting talking to them about biodiversity they'd be straight away online afterwards starting a thread going on about how out of touch with the common farmer the green party are. Any excuse here just to have a go at them

To be honest I think you've hit the nail on the head there. There are some posters here who would find fault with anything the greens do.

Tailoring your language to your audience is something that politicians do. For example George Washingtons inauguration speech was to fellow senators and congressmen and the language is of college graduate level. Obama's and Trump's inauguration speech was at a third/fourth grade level.

emaherx

MrMusician18 wrote: »

To be honest I think you've hit the nail on the head there. There are some posters here who would find fault with anything the greens do.

Tailoring your language to your audience is something that politicians do. For example George Washingtons inauguration speech was to fellow senators and congressmen and the language is of college graduate level. Obama's and Trump's inauguration speech was at a third/fourth grade level.

She said don't talk about biodiversity and sustainability to rural dwellers instead speak about cattle and birds! Sounds fairly aimed at the farming community who would have both those terms in particular regularly discussed with knowledge transfer programs and constant literature from the department of agriculture and the likes of Teagasc. And with more young farmers being trained farmers would have had this as part of their education. It's also something that the farming community is heavily engaged with through several environmental schemes. Probably more knowledge on the subject in the rural community than most urban areas, but even still not many wouldn't understand them.


Also a green party policy to not discuss biodiversity and sustainability is daft, but I've seen little evidence that most of them understand the concepts themselves. Maybe it's don't discuss biodiversity with rural dwellers as they will know too much on the subject and had you your ass on a plate