Green Party questioning Travellers intelligence?

Omackeral · 03-10-2020 8:50am

Madeoface wrote: »

All the footage of the traveller infighting and feuding in Mullingar and Drogheda etc doesn't show a proficiency in the language to be fair.

Sh1te in the bucket is positively Joycean.

Gruffalux · 03-10-2020 8:54am

Omackeral wrote: »

Sh1te in the bucket is positively Joycean.

Puts me in mind of a story I will probably never be able to find the source of again. A person in court told the judge "he came in through the window, yer honour, and done a sh1te on me dinner". Ah, simpler times when one could still freely enter others houses.

Fuascailteoir · 03-10-2020 8:54am

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Well then her communication of her ideas on how to communicate with rural people and travellers is not exactly going to endear the party to the target audience. They can't help scoring own goals whenever they do anything.

No your message was just incorrectly applied in this instance. She basically implied that travellers and rural people are too thick and ignorant to understand the big phrases that urban dwellers use so they need to dumb down the message. If you can't see how that is an issue then maybe look again

ProfessorPlum · 03-10-2020 9:05am

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

No your message was just incorrectly applied in this instance. She basically implied that travellers and rural people are too thick and ignorant to understand the big phrases that urban dwellers use so they need to dumb down the message. If you can't see how that is an issue then maybe look again

Seems the poster is good on the theory of communications, but has yet to get to the practical module.

Amirani · 03-10-2020 9:06am

Gruffalux wrote: »

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

They're subjectively loaded words, they don't mean the same thing to everyone.

Everlong1 · 03-10-2020 9:08am

I can't speak with any authority about our rural cousins even though my parents were culchies. However I was born and raised in Dublin and learned on my first day in the school playground that this country is full of knuckle draggers who regard anyone using words with more than one syllable with suspicion at best and hostility at worst.

A lot of Irish people pride themselves on being "down to earth" and having "no airs and graces". I worked with one of these lovely individuals once who used to rant about "fuc*ing intellectuals" and their big words. These are the type of people who think Brendan O'Carroll is comedy gold.

You can call Senator Garvey patronising but what she said sounded like simple common sense to me. The only thing she did wrong was to be a bit blunt and tell it like it is.

suicide_circus · 03-10-2020 9:08am

She probably wasn't entirely wrong but you'd hope anyone on your team communicating to the plebs would know to moderate their style depending on the audience. If they were canvassing inner city Dublin corpo flats they'd have to do the same.

Gervais08 · 03-10-2020 9:09am

Gruffalux wrote: »

Puts me in mind of a story I will probably never be able to find the source of again. A person in court told the judge "he came in through the window, yer honour, and done a sh1te on me dinner". Ah, simpler times when one could still freely enter others houses.

I believe that was in the first draft of Juno and the Paycock!

Gruffalux · 03-10-2020 9:18am

Amirani wrote: »

They're subjectively loaded words, they don't mean the same thing to everyone.

Just because you say they are subjectively loaded words does not make it true. Biodiversity and sustainable are objective words to most. Biodiversity means diversity of living things - scientifically, objectively. Sustainable means that it can be continued without harm or loss. Again objective. Any local here in the wilds who may not even have finished school has more factual experience in their big toe about the reality of biodiversity and sustainability than could be found in the whole brains of people who never track in their wellies day in day out across the fields and hills and boglands. If the words have a subjective loading perhaps the very people who have traded on the words politically, economically etc. for such a long and profitable time are the ones responsible for that?

jackboy · 03-10-2020 9:24am

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

No your message was just incorrectly applied in this instance. She basically implied that travellers and rural people are too thick and ignorant to understand the big phrases that urban dwellers use so they need to dumb down the message. If you can't see how that is an issue then maybe look again

She didn’t say or imply that. You are twisting her words.

Using words like biodiversity and sustainability is just waffle. If talking to a landowner just come out and tell them the things they can do to help wildlife thrive and protect the environment. As they know the land better than anyone they can likely teach just as much as they can learn.

seligehgit · 03-10-2020 9:24am

Everlong1 wrote: »

I can't speak with any authority about our rural cousins even though my parents were culchies. However I was born and raised in Dublin and learned on my first day in the school playground that this country is full of knuckle draggers who regard anyone using words with more than one syllable with suspicion at best and hostility at worst.

A lot of Irish people pride themselves on being "down to earth" and having "no airs and graces". I worked with one of these lovely individuals once who used to rant about "fuc*ing intellectuals" and their big words. These are the type of people who think Brendan O'Carroll is comedy gold.

You can call Senator Garvey patronising but what she said sounded like simple common sense to me. The only thing she did wrong was to be a bit blunt and tell it like it is.

How can you not speak for country people?

Surely you're not that insulated in your locality.

You have a point in that there are a cohort of anti intellectuals in the entirety of the country who have a dislike for big word individuals " the so called and on occasion self important intelligentsia " etc but not just rural Ireland.

Gruffalux · 03-10-2020 9:25am

jackboy wrote: »

She didn’t say or imply that. You are twisting her words.

Using words like biodiversity and sustainability is just waffle. If talking to a landowner just come out and tell them the things they can do to help wildlife thrive and protect the environment. As they know the land better than anyone they can likely teach just as much as they can learn.

But they can just not use big words apparently.

TheBlackPill · 03-10-2020 9:42am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Hmm. She was explaining to others how to communicate with certain groups. How would you have phrased it?

Please modify your speech to the target audience.. there nobody insulted or patronised. Fianna Fail canvassers have this down to a fine art.. all things to all men

colm_mcm · 03-10-2020 9:44am

Gruffalux wrote: »

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

I know what those words mean, and the concept - Id have no idea about the nuts and bolts of either.

I’d be totally disengaged if a canvasser started spouting those words unless they could relate them to my day to day life.
Much as in the same way if FG started talking about “recovery” a few years ago without actually explaining how that would be done, and how it would affect me and my area.

Gods Gift · 03-10-2020 9:49am

Biodiversity is someone who can change genders ain’t it.

Gruffalux · 03-10-2020 9:55am

colm_mcm wrote: »

I know what those words mean, and the concept - Id have no idea about the nuts and bolts of either.

I’d be totally disengaged if a canvasser started spouting those words unless they could relate them to my day to day life.
Much as in the same way if FG started talking about “recovery” a few years ago without actually explaining how that would be done, and how it would affect me and my area.

Okay. Fair enough. You want all political people to dumb down the language when refering to all areas of civic, economic and political life. At least that is consistent. In the long run it will reinforce an elitist oligarchy ruling over the feudal peasants but sure it's been done before many a time when literacy or the art of writing was kept from the lower classes. Encore une fois! This time it will be better!

riffmongous · 03-10-2020 10:01am

Gruffalux wrote: »

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

I grew up in a rural village and I never once heard anyone talking about biodiversity. Do I think every country person knows exactly what they mean? Not a chance, I'm sure almost everyone could figure it out quickly but you're not going to connect with your audience that way.

It's hard to take this thread seriously tbh, if a green party person called round to any of the usual people here and starting talking to them about biodiversity they'd be straight away online afterwards starting a thread going on about how out of touch with the common farmer the green party are. Any excuse here just to have a go at them

Everlong1 · 03-10-2020 10:02am

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Fianna Fail canvassers have this down to a fine art.. all things to all men

Precisely. The new generation of Greens are only now learning what it takes to convince Paddy that there's more to politics than pulling strokes to get him a medical card or a bit of the aul planning permission. God help them. It'll be a fairly steep learning curve.

TheBlackPill · 03-10-2020 10:05am

Everlong1 wrote: »

Precisely. The new generation of Greens are only now learning what it takes to convince Paddy that there's more to politics than pulling strokes to get him a medical card or a bit of the aul planning permission. God help them. It'll be a fairly steep learning curve.

That is all there is to Irish politics!. Our DAil is effectively a glorified regional government/county council, not primarily a legislature. A Dail with only 80 sitting TDs would go a long way to removing the pulling strokes element in getting elected.

Gruffalux · 03-10-2020 10:07am

riffmongous wrote: »

I grew up in a rural village and I never once heard anyone talking about biodiversity. Do I think every country person knows exactly what they mean? Not a chance, I'm sure almost everyone could figure it out quickly but you're not going to connect with your audience that way.

It's hard to take this thread seriously tbh, if a green party person called round to any of the usual people here and starting talking to them about biodiversity they'd be straight away online afterwards starting a thread going on about how out of touch with the common farmer the green party are. Any excuse here just to have a go at them

Country people don't talk to each other saying words like budgetary deficit or stakeholders or social cohesion either, but it's okay...when people in suits say those words to us or we hear them coming out as if by magic from the wee wireless we know what they mean.

is_that_so · 03-10-2020 10:09am

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Oh my god. How patronising. Imagine saying that in an interview.

If someone can't explain what they mean in an interview they definitely need to be reminded how not to do it in real life. You need to be aware of how little sense it's making to people. Smart communicators adjust their language level.

Everlong1 · 03-10-2020 10:11am

Gruffalux wrote: »

Okay. Fair enough. You want all political people to dumb down the language when refering to all areas of civic, economic and political life. At least that is consistent. In the long run it will reinforce an elitist oligarchy ruling over the feudal peasants but sure it's been done before many a time when literacy or the art of writing was kept from the lower classes. Encore une fois! This time it will be better!

Sweet Jesus. You have to be a student Socialist Worker activist or something are you? With the touchingly naive belief that underneath Paddy's pint swilling arse scratching surface there's a sophisticated political animal just waiting to be unleashed. Good luck with that.

I've had plenty of experiences where I made the mistake of treating people with the respect of assuming they were on the same intellectual level as me. I learned the hard way that the best approach was to assume everyone is a moron until proven otherwise. My life became a lot easier then. Now I can talk ****e about soap operas and football with the best of them, then infiltrate their subconscious with my revolutionary ideas.

listermint · 03-10-2020 10:12am

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's the spoon fed trust fund mentality, anyone outside their clique must be stupid,
pushing people to borrow money to retrofit their homes that they'll never see a return on in their lifetime, Greens are offspring of bankers,they are just pimping the parents business

Wait should we all be living in cold caves now ?

Ffs I've no time for the green party. But retrofitting your own home so that is comfortable to live in and has low running cost into old age is smart. Anyone who thinks it's not needs to get off mad conspiracy forums on Facebook.

Nonsense

riffmongous · 03-10-2020 10:13am

Gruffalux wrote: »

Country people don't talk to each other saying words like budgetary deficit or stakeholders or social cohesion either, but it's okay...when people in suits say those words to us or we hear them coming out as if by magic from the wee wireless we know what they mean.

Yeah and the local councillor talks like that when he's around the village or at a hurling match does he?:rolleyes:

riffmongous · 03-10-2020 10:15am

is_that_so wrote: »

If someone can't explain what they mean in an interview they definitely need to be reminded how not to do it in real life. You need to be aware of how little sense it's making to people. Smart communicators adjust their language level.

It wasn't an interview though.. it was a green party convention

Gruffalux · 03-10-2020 10:17am

Everlong1 wrote: »

. You have to be a student Socialist Worker activist or something are you?

Haha. I will run with that today for my identity

let the party commence. It knocks about 30 years off my age, probably changes my sex and makes up for being labeled a sexist right wing homophobe earlier in the week. Woohoo! Pass the spliff, man.

is_that_so · 03-10-2020 10:21am

riffmongous wrote: »

It wasn't an interview though.. it was a green party convention

Poor communication either way. "Talk to folks at a level they'll understand" is much better condescending way to say it! Personally a fan of the art of paraphrasing as it can avoid those absolutely precise but confusing words that people may not know.

seligehgit · 03-10-2020 10:22am

riffmongous wrote: »

I grew up in a rural village and I never once heard anyone talking about biodiversity. Do I think every country person knows exactly what they mean? Not a chance, I'm sure almost everyone could figure it out quickly but you're not going to connect with your audience that way.

It's hard to take this thread seriously tbh, if a green party person called round to any of the usual people here and starting talking to them about biodiversity they'd be straight away online afterwards starting a thread going on about how out of touch with the common farmer the green party are. Any excuse here just to have a go at them

Do you think every urban voter knows exactly what they mean?

is_that_so · 03-10-2020 10:23am

Everlong1 wrote: »

Sweet Jesus. You have to be a student Socialist Worker activist or something are you? With the touchingly naive belief that underneath Paddy's pint swilling arse scratching surface there's a sophisticated political animal just waiting to be unleashed. Good luck with that.

I've had plenty of experiences where I made the mistake of treating people with the respect of assuming they were on the same intellectual level as me. I learned the hard way that the best approach was to assume everyone is a moron until proven otherwise. My life became a lot easier then. Now I can talk ****e about soap operas and football with the best of them, then infiltrate their subconscious with my revolutionary ideas.

And then they go home and say what a nice guy you are, apart from the stupid crap about revolutions!

riffmongous · 03-10-2020 10:24am

seligehgit wrote: »

Do you think every urban voter knows exactly what they mean?

Of course not, but she wasn't talking about that, she was specifically addressing activists in rural areas

Green Party questioning Travellers intelligence?

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