Terror incident in Paris

Godeatsboogers

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Every Muslim living in the West has always answered Yes when they're asked if they want Sharia implemented in the West.

Were you there every time a Muslim was asked? Otherwise that's a seriously ostentatious remark. Replies like this are actually hilarious, just a wild generalization casually implied as fact when the information required to find it as fact is unbelievably out of the scope of anyone's abilities, unless your omniscient? Are you omniscient? Why do you only use your power for things like finding out what every muslim has said when asked a question about sharia law?

Mr. Karate

Godeatsboogers wrote: »

Were you there every time a Muslim was asked? Otherwise that's a seriously ostentatious remark. Replies like this are actually hilarious, just a wild generalization casually implied as fact when the information required to find it as fact is unbelievably out of the scope of anyone's abilities, unless your omniscient? Are you omniscient? Why do you only use your power for things like finding out what every muslim has said when asked a question about sharia law?

They were interviewed live on the air. Just because you're in willful denial doesn't mean the rest of us are.

The Left's mindset when it comes to Islam: "They didn't mean that."
Muslims's response: "Yes we did."

Godeatsboogers

Mr. Karate wrote: »

They were interviewed live on the air. Just because you're in willful denial doesn't mean the rest of us are.

The Left's mindset when it comes to Islam: "They didn't mean that."
Muslims's response: "Yes we did."

They were interviewed live on air? All of them, 1.8 billion people? When did this extra ordinary event occur. Oh youre just talking about a few? So what you did is garner an opinion from a small section of a selected group of people and then applied that opinion to the entire population without their input, are you an auditor?

John Doe1

From the far right publication of the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

-50% of all UK muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
-23% want Sharia law in UK.

mcmoustache

John Doe1 wrote: »

From the far right publication of the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

-50% of all UK muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
-23% want Sharia law in UK.

Thankfully the closest they'll get to Sharia are arbitration courts.


On homosexuality, though, that's not too surprising. It was a common belief here and in Europe until 30-odd years ago but we grew up and copped on. Other countries such as Russia have similar views with 20% thinking that they should be eliminated, whatever that means. The Islamic world is way behind though.



One approach is to make it clear that we in the west are all about personal freedoms and reject religiously inspired prohibitions. I liked the Dutch idea from 10 or 15 years ago where they had ads in muslim majority countries showing how they were full of gays, drink, drugs and sex. The message was basically, "if you can't handle it, please fcuk off.". Unfortunately, you can't exactly stop people with those kinds of ideas from comint into a country and you can't stop people coming in based on what their children might be like.



Another is not to give nutters like Ali Selim a platform. Thankfully, Trinity got rid of him but this was a guy mainstreaming shíte like genital mutilation on kids and segregation by sex. He shouldn't have been given that position in the first place.



As regards social media, we're sort of fecked, though. You can't exactly prevent Abdul from Birmingham from watching Chaudri's Finsbury Park Mosque's Death to America Fridays' greatest hits. I don't know how to sort that without making social media liable for its radicalisation of people but that a massive can of worms in itself.


I don't have a solution to this problem - only that it should be acknowledged as a problem. I can also point out that simplistic solutions like muslim bans aren't the answer. If gay rights are a concern and if banning people from homophobic cultures are a proposed solution, we'd have to ban a lot of nationalities and they include white Christian ones.



A small thing that helps though is having a culture where the holy Joes, from whatever religion, are sidelined.

Quantum Erasure

mcmoustache wrote: »

Azerbaijan, most likely.

Or Israel ...

Lylah Late Minibus

Lylah Late Minibus wrote: »

Was surprised the other day watching a travel show on one of the Turk based Islamic states in the near East, they actually had painted portraits (of poets) on buildings, and held women in very high regard (not as 2nd class citizens) with portraits also, since the turn of the century inc voting rights. This is a rareity. S'Arabia only let them drive cars in the last few years.

Can't remember the city, one of those places that's not Europe, but still feature in the Eurovision sing-off.

Think I saw that show... The host was in one of them 'Stan' places iirc, and she was praising the fact that the particular Country she was in was one of the first Islamic Countries to give women the vote, and the first to have a "Women only University" ; with undertones of : "Wow - look how progressive this Country is." :pac:

Pretty sure also that there were a few places she wasn't 'allowed' into as a woman... Also a few places where filming in itself wasn't allowed, but that's okay in my book.

That show I'm on about is on Travelxp, great channel with very knowledgeable, and some of the female (luckily most of the hosts are female) hosts are as hot as July

excludedbin

Mr. Karate wrote: »

They were interviewed live on the air.

Then link to it! Otherwise you're just making ****e up. Again.

John Doe1 wrote: »

From the far right publication of the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

-50% of all UK muslims think homosexuality should be illegal.
-23% want Sharia law in UK.

Whoah, hold on a second! Only 23%? But Mr. Karate said "all".

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Bull****. They all want Sharia implemented in the West.

23% is not "all". It's not even "a quarter".

RasTa

Lylah Late Minibus wrote: »

Once strolled into an Islamic 'Art Gallery' when travelling in a major int'l city, to pass an hour or two.

After 10mins walking inside, disappointed and deflated, realised would have experienced more asthetic visual and sensory pleasure shopping at at DIY depot for monotone navy patterned tiles.

On the way out the curator chap at the exit asked 'Did you enjoy the art?'.
Had to look at him, look at the gallery signage above the door ('art galllery') and then back at the wall hangings (to make sure there wasn't a trip in the matrix).
The least offensive thing could do was to say nothing, shrug the shoulders, and exit with some gusto.

Perhaps they can start with simple cartoons, then work up towards Antoni Gaudí or Picasso after a millenia or so.

lololololol. This is the dumbest thing I've read on here in a while.

biko

As I understand it - Pakistani undocumented unaccompanied child Ali Hassan tried to kill two people he believed were journalists for Charlie Hebdo.

Ali Hassan 18yo from Pakistan

Cordell

They grow up so fast don't they.

da_miser

Deleted User wrote: »

I've read some speculative garbage on boards, but this takes the expired cake. I know three people of the muslim faith, all of whom detest ISIS and other terrorist splinter groups. An antagonistic minority is in no way representative of the majority. You "virtually" made up these assertions on the spot.

When you are next talking to these Muslims that you know, mention Israel, you will see their true colours come out then.

Timberrrrrrrr

da_miser wrote: »

When you are next talking to these Muslims that you know, mention Israel, you will see their true colours come out then.

How would you know? It's not as if you know any Muslims or have had this (or any other) conversation with them.

suicide_circus

biko wrote: »

As I understand it - Pakistani undocumented unaccompanied child Ali Hassan tried to kill two people he believed were journalists for Charlie Hebdo.

Ali Hassan 18yo from Pakistan

Full kit wanker

Wibbs

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How would you know? It's not as if you know any Muslims or have had this (or any other) conversation with them.

I know a few Muslim lads. No women, beyond "the weather's nice today" kinda interactions. Now it's a tiny sample, not nearly representative of course. They're very sound and I've had all sorts of conversations with them over the years, including on subjects like Israel and war on terror etc. I'd share their negative attitude on America taking the piss with their overseas policies going back decades. They'd have more of a tangible angle to that of course and very much feel the umma/community of fellow Muslims.

Israel is not this particular set of guys fave place or politic. Of Jews themselves they're not exactly positive, though the majority of their ire is aimed at Israel and American Jews. There's a fair bit of Jews run the money vibe, though they'd be less overtly anti semitic as a general thing than quite a few Russians I know funny enough.

They have no issue with Europe, though France and the UK would stand out. When the Charlie Hebdo thing went down, their general attitude was "well what did they expect??" as it just didn't track for them why anyone would want to directly insult their religion, though it was mixed with condemnation of the attacks themselves. The attacks on the Parisian nightclub was condemned outright. On the more general suicide attacks in war zones the angle was well what options do fighters have fighting drones and cruise missiles.

They have spoken of hardliners within the faith and have a mixed attitude to them, but mostly feel they're doing nobody any good, though speaking up against them is not an option for the most part.

On religion I have noted that Allah is much more a being to be feared and appealed to for mercy. A much more old testament deity, rather than the generally more happy clappy Christian god.

da_miser

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How would you know? It's not as if you know any Muslims or have had this (or any other) conversation with them.

Know plenty of them, have worked with many over the years, had many a harmless conversation about football, a simple talk about who we could get in the Euro Draws, Israel mentioned , cue the bile and hatred pour out of the Muslims present, the mention of Israel is like flipping a switch, those who doubt this are the ones who have never had any contact with a Muslim, any one who has had contact with them can confirm what i stated is 100% the truth.
Try it, mention Israel in front of some muslims you know and report back here with the results.

Cordell

I had quite a few interactions as well with highly educated and skilled professionals. All sound until they drop something like the quran predicted the space exploration and I shower daily and wear clean clothes because quran says so - you see, with them that book cannot be wrong. I never brought the conversation around difficult subjects like Israel because I know better The only one that was actually sound and moderate in his beliefs was someone who came from a very old European muslim comunity.

Timberrrrrrrr

da_miser wrote: »

Know plenty of them, have worked with many over the years, had many a harmless conversation about football, a simple talk about who we could get in the Euro Draws, Israel mentioned , cue the bile and hatred pour out of the Muslims present, the mention of Israel is like flipping a switch, those who doubt this are the ones who have never had any contact with a Muslim, any one who has had contact with them can confirm what i stated is 100% the truth.
Try it, mention Israel in front of some muslims you know and report back here with the results.

I work for the M.O.D in England at the moment I have a muslim guy named Sharif working with me on an ongoing project for the last 8 months.

Asked him his thoughts today on Israel.and its people.in general

His reply (paraphraseing)

"Timberrrrrrrr, the Israeli people are the same as the English, Americans, The French, The Iraqis and every other nation. The people just want to live their lives and get on with it. The governments of every country fùcks things up for them and others"

When I asked him does he hate the Israelis he said no, but on the flip ide he would never buy a product from there.

So there you go, no "flip switched" no anger, vitriol or bile merely a shoulder shrug and "it is what it is"

And yes, this is a man that prays five times a day and his wife wears a hijab when outdoors.

Tea drinker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

How would you know? It's not as if you know any Muslims or have had this (or any other) conversation with them.

How do you know who he knows, are ye pals or something?

da_miser

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I work for the M.O.D in England at the moment I have a muslim guy named Sharif working with me on an ongoing project for the last 8 months.

Asked him his thoughts today on Israel.and its people.in general

His reply (paraphraseing)

"Timberrrrrrrr, the Israeli people are the same as the English, Americans, The French, The Iraqis and every other nation. The people just want to live their lives and get on with it. The governments of every country fùcks things up for them and others"

When I asked him does he hate the Israelis he said no, but on the flip ide he would never buy a product from there.

So there you go, no "flip switched" no anger, vitriol or bile merely a shoulder shrug and "it is what it is"

And yes, this is a man that prays five times a day and his wife wears a hijab when outdoors.

Conversely a Algerian and Moroccan i knew, during a conversation both stated that if their governments did not put a halt to it there would be millions marching across North Africa to go fight Israel.

suicide_circus

Lads stop name dropping your colleagues in the Ministry of Defence.

Timberrrrrrrr

suicide_circus wrote: »

Lads stop name dropping your colleagues in the Ministry of Defence.

Why?

4068ac1elhodqr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why?

Isn't there some Official Secrets Act 1989?

Know a chap who worked as a Postie in the uk, had to sign this, just for delivering manila letters in letterboxes for a couple of hours in the mornings.

Was not allowed to say whether or not some Joe Bloggs (sample name), got a brown envelope or a white one, or could face reprimand.

Timberrrrrrrr

Lylah Late Minibus wrote: »

Isn't there some Official Secrets Act 1989?

Know a chap who worked as a Postie in the uk, had to sign this, just for delivering manila letters in letterboxes for a couple of hours in the mornings.

Was not allowed to say whether or not some Joe Bloggs (sample name), got a brown envelope or a white one, or could face reprimand.

So from me posting the first name of someone who works in the MOD you think I would be breaking the official secrets act :rolleyes:

Trust me, no laws, rules or regulations have been broken :pac:

Tea drinker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So from me posting the first name of someone who works in the MOD you think I would be breaking the official secrets act :rolleyes:

Trust me, no laws, rules or regulations have been broken :pac:

You shouldn't be drawing attention to your associastion with MOD here , but that's just my opinion. I also think it's a bit naive to think that a Muslim guy employed by MOD would express negative sentimets about Israel.
You and he surely were vetted before employment.

You also didn't explain how you "knew" the other poster didn't know any muslims.

jmayo

Have we found a new Aonghus von Bismarck or a new donegalfella ?

At least they never claimed to be working for the Brits.

Montage of Feck

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

When was the last time you felt the need to be armed in Ireland due to "imported violent people"?

1969, .

Timberrrrrrrr

Tea drinker wrote: »

You shouldn't be drawing attention to your associastion with MOD here , but that's just my opinion. I also think it's a bit naive to think that a Muslim guy employed by MOD would express negative sentimets about Israel.
You and he surely were vetted before employment.

You also didn't explain how you "knew" the other poster didn't know any muslims.

Its no secret on here that I am ex British army personnel and ive never hidden the fact I now work for the M.O.D

Ah so you think my associate is "hiding" his true feelings about Israel?

Tea drinker

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Its no secret on here that I am ex British army personnel and ive never hidden the fact I now work for the M.O.D

Ah so you think my associate is "hiding" his true feelings about Israel?

He *might* to some extent, but IMHO a bigger factor is the MOD are simply not going to employ radical elements. A lot (not all) of UK Muslims are very chilled people who occassionaly dabble in the demon drink.

By the way am not sniping (jesus poor choice of words) at you for your employment but at least the people I came across working for MOD can be a little reticent about revealing their employer.

TheBlackPill

Cordell wrote: »

I had quite a few interactions as well with highly educated and skilled professionals. All sound until they drop something like the quran predicted the space exploration and I shower daily and wear clean clothes because quran says so - you see, with them that book cannot be wrong. I never brought the conversation around difficult subjects like Israel because I know better The only one that was actually sound and moderate in his beliefs was someone who came from a very old European muslim comunity.

Sorry ranting