Why are the far left so pro lockdown ?

sabat

landofthetree wrote: »

They arent doing a very good job. Gay marriage,EU membership,free trade supporters eg Irish government via Phil Hogan pushed for free trade with Japan, record number of non-EU migrants,record number of non- nationals handed citizenship etc.

These are all right wing policies...

Bubbaclaus

sabat wrote: »

These are all right wing policies...

Gay marriage and increased immigration are right wing policies? I'm very confused.

landofthetree

sabat wrote: »

These are all right wing policies...

The far right hate all those policies.

sabat

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Gay marriage and increased immigration are right wing policies? I'm very confused.

You're supposed to be-that's the swindle.

Bubbaclaus

sabat wrote: »

You're supposed to be-that's the swindle.

So you are on the wind up then? Understood.

Open the Pubs

The far Left PBP and Paul Murphy want job losses and mass unemployment so people are reliant on the the state and social welfare. The lockdown bankrupts and destroys businesses especially small businesses.

The only reason far Left PBP and Paul Murphy etc ever got into the Dail was the last financial collapse. This is a great opportunity again for them. Murphy was attacking IBEC the other day.

statesaver

Deleted User wrote: »

Because the left is pro-science.

Really ?

Transwomen are women. Transmen are men ? Pro science you say :cool:

RandomViewer

Open the Pubs wrote: »

The far Left PBP and Paul Murphy want job losses and mass unemployment so people are reliant on the the state and social welfare. The lockdown bankrupts and destroys businesses especially small businesses.

The only reason far Left PBP and Paul Murphy etc ever got into the Dail was the last financial collapse. This is a great opportunity again for them. Murphy was attacking IBEC the other day.

IBEC don't represent small businesses either, their quite happy for the small family run operations to go under, corporations can weather the storm small businesses cant

Zookey123

RandomViewer wrote: »

Country will be ungovernable if business interests are put ahead of people's lives, we are going to have to see prosecutions over the nursing home deaths and the meat factory fiasco.

Isn't that exactly why HIQA was set up?

atticu

Strumms wrote: »

There is generally a more empathetic and intelligent outlook from the left.

The right just often think about themselves and their own families, interests etc. and judge success and happiness by making money.

Left thinking people want wellness, health of and for people. That’s the priority.

They also seek to succeed too in business as any other aspect of life but they are not willing to do so to the detriment of health and lives of others.

Would you say that you are left leaning?
Would you think that you share these values and aspirations?

KaneToad

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is there science behind the mask requirement...there wasn't 6 months ago?

The science behind masks is simple, if you have the virus a mask will reduce the distance droplets can travel from your airways to the atmosphere. It won't stop them and it won't stop the virus entering either.

It's not the silver bullet to stopping the virus spread but, in the absence of a vaccine/effective drug, it's something we can do to try to have an impact on it. Some other things being:

Washing hands
Keeping a distance from others
Practicing respiratory etiquette
Working from home
Limiting social interactions

Strumms

atticu wrote: »

Would you say that you are left leaning?
Would you think that you share these values and aspirations?

No.

More left than right but I don’t define my beliefs on an issue by what flag I run up a pole or what simple side of an ideology I stand for. I try to instead be loyal to doing what’s right over what’s wrong, what’s good over what’s bad, what’s fair over unfair, what’s thought out over just what’s emotive....

jimmycrackcorm

Silentcorner wrote: »

So health workers always wear masks to protect themselves during the annual flu season...thanks, I never knew that!!!

If ever you have to have surgery, be sure to tell the theatre staff that masks aren't required and of no use.

Montage of Feck

Notmything wrote: »

It means that for the first time ever their supporters are doing something for the community by staying at home and not going out to work.

Not true, just look at where the rate is highest in Dublin.

Daragh1980

The Left were very vocal about Golfgate.

However most of them are staying quiet about the rave in Oliver Bond flats.

They are pro lockdown because their support base are dole heads who have nothing better to do anyway.

Daragh1980

Daragh1980 wrote: »

The Left were very vocal about Golfgate.

However most of them are staying quiet about the rave in Oliver Bond flats.

Were there prominent politicians from the governing political parties and senior members of the judiciary in the flats to party?

Coz Id like to see that! :pac::pac:

Daragh1980

Daragh1980 wrote: »

The Left were very vocal about Golfgate.

However most of them are staying quiet about the rave in Oliver Bond flats.

It wasn't the left that was vocal about golf gate, it was the majority of the public. Politicians are held to a a higher bar, that's the reality. But there was still a pub that got caught in a scandal the week prior. The Oliver Bond flats is getting plenty of negative coverage and imagine there will be more during the week.

Daragh1980

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It wasn't the left that was vocal about golf gate, it was the majority of the public. Politicians are held to a a higher bar, that's the reality. But there was still a pub that got caught in a scandal the week prior. The Oliver Bond flats is getting plenty of negative coverage and imagine there will be more during the week.

For golfgate, there were plenty negative comments from prominent lefties along with a selection of jibes towards golfers in general. Most on the Left depise golf and many have no time for middle class professionals.

For the rave, those exact same lefties (I have looked at their Twitter) are mostly staying silent. A couple have stated that criticism of the ravers is “snobby” and “classist”. I also noted one deflecting back to Cliffen - “What about....”

There is a double standard here.

Daragh1980

Daragh1980 wrote: »

For golfgate, there were plenty negative comments from prominent lefties along with a selection of jibes towards golfers in general. Most on the Left depise golf and many have no time for middle class professionals.

For the rave, those exact same lefties (I have looked at their Twitter) are mostly staying silent. A couple have stated that criticism of the ravers is “snobby” and “classist”. I also noted one deflecting back to Cliffen - “What about....”

There is a double standard here.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh is currently on Morning Ireland saying it was disgraceful and violated public health guidelines.... He's actively complaining Gardai didn't stop it. So still not seeing a double standard.

Cyrus

Double O Seven wrote: »

This must be the first issue ever that Paul Murphy, Dick Boyd Barrett & co have supported the government on, indeed a lot of the so called far right who protest lockdown would have been past voters for the AAA-PBP.

its simple, like all politicians they are opportunists (the left more so imo but thats probably because they shout from the sidelines). there is no political capital in them being anti lockdown.

Their core vote are on welfare or low paid workers (who have been disproportionally impacted on the job loss front) as long as they are getting the covid payment then its all good.

See how their tune changes once it tapers.

elefant

Daragh1980 wrote: »

Most on the Left depise golf

Quality.

The_Brood

This is how it always happens. The vocal left are first in line to support things that harm poor people and the working poor, all the while arguing that they are the great savior of the poor.

Make no mistake about it - anyone who supports these lockdowns wants the working poor to suffer. Their only solution of "government support" is basically making other working poor and those not wealthy pay for non working poor.

mrcheez

sabat wrote: »

I have a pack of masks in front of me that says "NOT FOR MEDICAL USE" on it...

They're probably low-grade 1 or 2 layer masks and not advisable to use

Get these instead https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08D7RB24Q/

RandomViewer

Zookey123 wrote: »

Isn't that exactly why HIQA was set up?

HIQA can't investigate Harris and Varadker,

RandomViewer

Deleted User wrote: »

They are pro lockdown because their support base are dole heads who have nothing better to do anyway.

no one lobbies SF or PBP for council houses but they do lobby FF/FG, strange that

Elmer Blooker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I know lots of 'leftists' and they're all arrogant self righteous pricks who will shout you down in a discussion because they know whats 'correct'.
It doesn't surprise one bit that they are the most pro lockdown/pro censorship!

I really should have added yesterday that I haven't always found 'leftists' as I described them above.
I've had many a good night in the pub with 'lefties' in the past and found them interesting company who were open to different ideas, there was always one or two who would tell you what book they were reading and recommend it.
Now they have lost the plot as far as I'm concerned and are all suffering from OTD (obsessive Trump disorder) and seem to have no opinions whatsoever about anything other than that bad man!
Its a shame that people who I once thought of as well read now have no opinions other than what they see on RTE or in the Irish Times.

circadian

Some outstanding works of fiction in this thread.

mcmoustache

circadian wrote: »

Some outstanding works of fiction in this thread.

Twitter and facebook have a lot to answer for.

circadian

mcmoustache wrote: »

Twitter and facebook have a lot to answer for.

And YouTube for their "you watched this unverified pile of ****e so here's more" rabbit holes.

Mr. Karate

Deleted User wrote: »

Because the left is pro-science.

Thinking that there's hundreds of genders is not pro-science.

Mr. Karate

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm far left and I'm 100% not pro-lockdown, I agree that containment measures are necessary but I'm furious that (a) the government bungled their one chance to do this right back in June when they expedited the roadmap, (b) the new government threw away the public's goodwill with Golfgate, and (c) that the messaging and the measures themselves have been made up as they go along and utterly incompetent since the new government took over.

I honestly don't see where this idea that the far left are pro-lockdown comes from. Many of my close friends are far left and we're both utterly fed up of the social isolation and also unbelievably pissed off that, from our point of view, moronic decision making is probably a gigantic contributing factor as to why everything went to sh!t after it seemed we actually had the situation under control earlier in the summer.

Goodwill was lost back in May when the same people that were yelling "STAY AT HOME OR YOU'LL KILL GRANDMA!!!" on the Tv or radio were cheering on the BLM rallies like the virus suddenly ceased to exist. And then Leo himself was caught hanging out with his friends in Phoenix Park not social distancing or wearing a mask. Golfgate was just another middle finger to the people who've had their lives destroyed because of these assholes.

Tokyo

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Thinking that there's hundreds of genders is not pro-science.

Mod: Feel free to explain the link to the thread at hand, other than to try and get a reaction.

Bubbaclaus

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Leo himself was caught hanging out with his friends in Phoenix Park not social distancing or wearing a mask.

Interesting statement considering he was clearly keeping a distance from everyone besides his partner and there was and is no requirement to wear a mask in such a setting. Faux outrage gets good likes on facebook though, so that spread like wildfire on there.

Zookey123

RandomViewer wrote: »

HIQA can't investigate Harris and Varadker,

HIQA is an independent entity and has powers of prosecution. The post was in response to the nursing home deaths which are due to internal incompetencies of the staff. Why would Varadker be investigated?

hatrickpatrick

Zookey123 wrote: »

What do you mean by far left? Their is no far left in Ireland except for in the minds of the paranoid right.

Well I'm a social libertarian extremist and I'm anti-capitalist to the point of believing that hoarding property for the purposes of renting it out instead of sharing with those in need for the sake of being a good person is morally abhorrent, so I'd suggest that makes me at the very least slightly far left

I think the idea that far left = totalitarian is a misconception. As far as I'm concerned, far left simply means fundamentally opposed to the capitalistic paradigm which societally permits people to prioritise greed over the wellbeing of their fellow citizen.

Not here to debate the merits of this of course, we have other threads for that. But if that isn't far left I don't know what is - and while many, many of my friends would share my views, none of us are enjoying this and some of us (myself very much included) have seen our mental health plunge to the point of genuine crisis (won't go into detail but use your imagination ) as a result of almost all avenues for social interaction being curtailed.

We're all at the stage of life where one tends to be single and either still live at home or else live alone in a rented flat so obviously the lack of social occasions is isolating beyond belief and it's not too surprising that isolation with no light at the end of the tunnel (the constant pushing forward of reopening dates, the idea that social distancing might be in place well into next year, Jaysus the idea of spending Christmas without any of the usual family or friends reunions... I could go on) has resulted in significant depression for many young folks.

Now having said that. None of us would be in the category of "f*ck the vulnerable, just reopen everything now and act as if there's no virus" camp so obviously if that's what's meant by being pro-lockdown then this thread is about something other than what I thought it was about. For most of my crew, we accept that lockdown is necessary but (a) we absolutely f*cking hate it and how bleak it's made our lives, and (b) we genuinely believe that we might have found a way out of this sooner if the government hadn't made so many catastrophic errors after, it must be said, handling the early stages of the pandemic exceptionally well all things considered.

But pro-lockdown? Not a chance. The minute this thing is finally over, we plan to go to a concert, festival or nightclub and never come home again for fear they get closed down while we're gone

Mr. Karate

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Goodwill was lost back in May when the same people that were yelling "STAY AT HOME OR YOU'LL KILL GRANDMA!!!" on the Tv or radio were cheering on the BLM rallies like the virus suddenly ceased to exist.

This is a valid point.

Mr. Karate wrote: »

And then Leo himself was caught hanging out with his friends in Phoenix Park not social distancing or wearing a mask. Golfgate was just another middle finger to the people who've had their lives destroyed because of these assholes.

At that point masks were still a no-no and strongly advised against for the general public by our "experts". People seem to have forgotten the likes of Cillian De Gascun and Professor Luke O'Neill coming out strongly against masks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7_P2RmrA6U - Luke O'Neill 1:20 "No need to wear a face mask, absolutely not, at all. No evidence it will stop you catching the virus" The fact he put it that way shows what a weasel he is. He neglected to mention it could very well stop OTHERS from catching the virus, and he knew that damn well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8yCIQ3l7r0 - Cillian De Gascun "No need to wear masks unless perhaps you are symptomatic"

Everyone in authority was saying this. This was literally the mantra. I even saw Luke O'Neill on RTE attacking a UK doctor advising people to wear face coverings.

Also they were social distancing. If you understood anything about perspective, when one person is behind another they look really close when in fact they can easily be a good distance apart. If you look at the photos, the people opposite Leo are clearly social distancing, so there is no reason to believe the guy beside him isn't either.

https://www.businessinsider.com/social-distancing-images-camera-trick-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

The Bobby Storey "funeral" (in reality a SF rally) and Golfgate were far more problematic.

doublejobbing 2

A number of reasons

- ingrained laziness and the push for Universal Basic Income. For years they have been advocating for the introduction of UBI- a welfare payment roughly equal to 40 hours minimum wage work. Now that it is (temporarily) available they are on Cloud 9, particularly since of the very few lefties who work, the bulk of them would be doing minimal hours in cafes, craft bars, hipster burger joints etc.

- taking advantage of a damaged economy. The left crave mass unemployment and a new recession as it drives the desperate into their arms

- making the rest of the population as bitter, depressed and aimless as they are

- depriving retailers of income from selling higher cost items that most lefties would be too skint to afford. They would be delighted to see the likes of BT and Arnotts go under as they would never be in a position to drop 70 quid on a Ralph Lauren shirt, and therefore nobody else should do so either.


Not only are most of these people deeply unhappy, they seek to project it on to the rest of us.

Risteard81

True left-wingers like me are wholly opposed to "lockdown" and restrictions, as we rightly see these as treasonous totalitarian acts.

Bubbaclaus

Risteard81 wrote: »

True left-wingers like me are wholly opposed to "lockdown" and restrictions, as we rightly see these as treasonous totalitarian acts.

Aren't you pro herd immunity and leaving the vulnerable fend for themselves? How left wing of you.

Risteard81

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Aren't you pro herd immunity and leaving the vulnerable fend for themselves? How left wing of you.

I am pro people living their lives without treasonous interference by the State. Leo is a well-known fascist, and he was the architect of these original treasonous restrictions (whilst running an unelected junta).

doublejobbing 2

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Aren't you pro herd immunity and leaving the vulnerable fend for themselves? How left wing of you.

I can't remember the last time I met somebody who still takes Covid as anything more than a bad flu (I was religiously toeing the line until about two months ago when I actually read the stats rather than dismissing all the arguments because it was usually utte loons advocating it). Before reading the stats and seeing that, regretable as it is, Covid is typically the straw that broke the camels back for most victims. People who were days, hours, weeks away from death regardless. The sheer amount of professional sportsmen who tested positive and, contrary to the RTE propoganda, are fit as a fiddle ready to go go again in 2 weeks is also an indicator of the seriousness of this. Hundreds, thousands of sportsmen positive, yet not once have I heard a manager two months down the line explaining player X is still unfit to play due to Covid.

And like all bad flus, a danger to the elderly, like we get every year when we are asked not to visit people in hospitals.

People seem to be split between vocal "it's all bollix" and people like the missus who know it's bollix but are too polite to say it.

Unfortunately people's hesitance is due to not wanting to be labelled with the Gemmas and Ben Gilroys of the world.

Mr. Karate

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Aren't you pro herd immunity and leaving the vulnerable fend for themselves? How left wing of you.

The Flu still kills people every year. Heck even the common Cold still kills some people. We can't keep locking down and going scorched earth on our economy every time somebody gets the sniffles.

We're being told that we have to live with this virus. That should mean that we should be able to do some actual living and live normally [or as close to it as possible]

bloopy

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I met somebody who still takes Covid as anything more than a bad flu (I was religiously toeing the line until about two months ago when I actually read the stats rather than dismissing all the arguments because it was usually utte loons advocating it). Before reading the stats and seeing that, regretable as it is, Covid is typically the straw that broke the camels back for most victims. People who were days, hours, weeks away from death regardless. The sheer amount of professional sportsmen who tested positive and, contrary to the RTE propoganda, are fit as a fiddle ready to go go again in 2 weeks is also an indicator of the seriousness of this. Hundreds, thousands of sportsmen positive, yet not once have I heard a manager two months down the line explaining player X is still unfit to play due to Covid.

And like all bad flus, a danger to the elderly, like we get every year when we are asked not to visit people in hospitals.

People seem to be split between vocal "it's all bollix" and people like the missus who know it's bollix but are too polite to say it.

Unfortunately people's hesitance is due to not wanting to be labelled with the Gemmas and Ben Gilroys of the world.

Those two f***in idiots have poisoned the well and severely limited chances of having a proper discussion on where we are going.

Boggles

Risteard81 wrote: »

True left-wingers like me are wholly opposed to "lockdown" and restrictions, as we rightly see these as treasonous totalitarian acts.

Giggs?

Sawduck

If the far left are pro lockdown and the far right are anti mask where does that leave us normal people then

Bubbaclaus

Sawduck wrote: »

If the far left are pro lockdown and the far right are anti mask where does that leave us normal people then

Sheep apparently. I have noticed that the more uneducated someone is, the more likely they are to consider everyone else to be the sheep and themselves the voice of reason.

sabat

Sawduck wrote: »

If the far left are pro lockdown and the far right are anti mask where does that leave us normal people then

Incorrect. The anti mask people have been smeared as far right to deter others from joining protests.

doublejobbing 2

sabat wrote: »

Incorrect. The anti mask people have been smeared as far right to deter others from joining protests.

I think it's more that the anti lockdown first believers were loopers. A far higher percent of people can see the truth now but there is nobody mainstream representing them.

Strumms

It’s no coincidence that the anti lockdown nutters, are mostly anti mask nutters , anti distancing screwballs, anti covid being potentially a deadly virus despite quite considerable evidence and deaths to confirm it is...psychologists will be busy over the next few years.