All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

PintOfView

Weekly deaths in the us from all causes, from 1/1/2017 to today
https://public.tableau.com/profile/dataviz8737#!/vizhome/COVID_excess_mort_withcauses_01272021/WeeklyExcessDeaths
The orange line is the expected deaths per week (it varies with the month, more in winter)

The actual deaths did jump over the expected line for 3 wks in Jan 2018
Actual deaths have far exceeded expected for the last 9 months, since Mar 2020

This is from all causes, it's just the total who die each week in the US.
Who can seriously say the huge rise in people dying since last March was not covid related?

King Mob

harrylittle wrote: »

Their research is pretty clear to me .

I wouldnt classify it as cyborgs more like precursor to MARK OF THE BEAST

Repeating silly conspiracies you find on twitter and YouTube is not "research".

So the going conspiracy theory is that this is all a biblical prophesy.
All ok with that?
Must be cause that's the only theory being proposed.

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Woah, can you clarify this? how many people have died due to the lockdown according to you? and how many have died as a result of Covid? (with sources please)

Therein lies the question.

Do you know?

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

Weekly deaths in the us from all causes, from 1/1/2017 to today
https://public.tableau.com/profile/dataviz8737#!/vizhome/COVID_excess_mort_withcauses_01272021/WeeklyExcessDeaths
The orange line is the expected deaths per week (it varies with the month, more in winter)

The actual deaths did jump over the expected line for 3 wks in Jan 2018
Actual deaths have far exceeded expected for the last 9 months, since Mar 2020

This is from all causes, it's just the total who die each week in the US.
Who can seriously say the huge rise in people dying since last March was not covid related?

Deaths in a year with a pandemic AND lockdown are being compared to a year with neither pandemic nor lockdown but all the deaths are being attributed to only one of those variables. Yep. Seems legit.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Deaths in a year with a pandemic AND lockdown are being compared to a year with neither pandemic nor lockdown but all the deaths are being attributed to only one of those variables. Yep. Seems legit.

Ok. Please provide the data that shows the deaths due to lockdown.

Or let me guess you can't provide this data because of the global conspiracy and any data we can provide against your position is also part of this conspiracy?

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Deaths in a year with a pandemic AND lockdown are being compared to a year with neither pandemic nor lockdown but all the deaths are being attributed to only one of those variables. Yep. Seems legit.

Ok, I guess you've seen evidence of the huge increase in deaths over the last year.
That would be a problem for your argument that covid is a hoax.
So you now switch to admitting the deaths took place, but now say those deaths were caused by the lockdown!!!

Isn't that a bit a bit of Monty Python response, 'he's not dead, he's only resting' sort of thing?

Do you actually believe that yourself? Are you not interested in truth, and reality?
You seem articulate enough, but if you can do gymnastics with facts like that, can't you see the same thing is happening on the sites that you get your 'information' from? And likely you discount all the information that is staring you in the face on the 'main stream media'?
(I'm not saying the main stream media are perfect, but there's a limit to what can be false).

I know it can be uncomfortable to have your beliefs challenged, but this is not a religion where you have to take things on faith. We are talking about reality here, with a real virus, and real people dying, and a real threat to the living.

Can't you see that what you're saying is confirming all sorts of unrealistic things in the minds of your followers, and thus they may be more at risk of exposing themselves to the virus, and suffering serious consequences, including death (and, of course, helping spread it to everyone else)?

storker

King Mob wrote: »

Repeating silly conspiracies you find on twitter and YouTube is not "research".

So the going conspiracy theory is that this is all a biblical prophesy.
All ok with that?
Must be cause that's the only theory being proposed.

I think it's quite an achievement. These guys are actually making 911 conspiracy theorists look rational. Well, OK, semi-rational...

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. Please provide the data that shows the deaths due to lockdown.

Or let me guess you can't provide this data because of the global conspiracy and any data we can provide against your position is also part of this conspiracy?

You can’t provide the data on deaths due to lockdown either. You are happy to count all deaths WITH Covid as deaths FROM Covid.

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

Ok, I guess you've seen evidence of the huge increase in deaths over the last year.
That would be a problem for your argument that covid is a hoax.
So you now switch to admitting the deaths took place, but now say those deaths were caused by the lockdown!!!

Isn't that a bit a bit of Monty Python response, 'he's not dead, he's only resting' sort of thing?

Do you actually believe that yourself? Are you not interested in truth, and reality?
You seem articulate enough, but if you can do gymnastics with facts like that, can't you see the same thing is happening on the sites that you get your 'information' from? And likely you discount all the information that is staring you in the face on the 'main stream media'?
(I'm not saying the main stream media are perfect, but there's a limit to what can be false).

I know it can be uncomfortable to have your beliefs challenged, but this is not a religion where you have to take things on faith. We are talking about reality here, with a real virus, and real people dying, and a real threat to the living.

Can't you see that what you're saying is confirming all sorts of unrealistic things in the minds of your followers, and thus they may be more at risk of exposing themselves to the virus, and suffering serious consequences, including death (and, of course, helping spread it to everyone else)?

I believe Covid is a real disease and sars cov 2 is a real virus.
I also believe that the threat from this virus is exaggerated and the number of deaths recorded as being as a result of Covid are over inflated.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I believe Covid is a real disease and sars cov 2 is a real virus.
I also believe that the threat from this virus is exaggerated and the number of deaths recorded as being as a result of Covid are over inflated.

But you won't provide any proper details or answer any questions on this belief of yours..

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I believe Covid is a real disease and sars cov 2 is a real virus.
I also believe that the threat from this virus is exaggerated and the number of deaths recorded as being as a result of Covid are over inflated.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55631693

Covid: 2020 saw most excess deaths since World War Two

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You can’t provide the data on deaths due to lockdown either.

Yes, but I'm not basing a conspiracy theory on this notion.

Why do you believe that all excess deaths are due to the lockdown when you aren't actually able to support this claim with evidence?
To most people, this is irrational.

How does this play into the conspiracy theory that this is all due to a biblical prophesy?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are happy to count all deaths WITH Covid as deaths FROM Covid.

Again, a long debunked conspiracy canard.

If you want to provide the accurate number of victims of covid, please do and the evidence you used to reach this number.
But again, I suspect you will dodge and deflect from doing so as that's the general response.

Could you also detail why you believe that the numbers of covid deaths are being inflated? What's the motive and who's controlling this global effort?
Do you believe that it's part of the conspiracy to turn everyone into cyborgs? I ask as that's the only theory that's been put forward so far.

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, but I'm not basing a conspiracy theory on this notion.

Why do you believe that all excess deaths are due to the lockdown when you aren't actually able to support this claim with evidence?
To most people, this is irrational.

How does this play into the conspiracy theory that this is all due to a biblical prophesy?


Again, a long debunked conspiracy canard.

If you want to provide the accurate number of victims of covid, please do and the evidence you used to reach this number.
But again, I suspect you will dodge and deflect from doing so as that's the general response.

Could you also detail why you believe that the numbers of covid deaths are being inflated? What's the motive and who's controlling this global effort?
Do you believe that it's part of the conspiracy to turn everyone into cyborgs? I ask as that's the only theory that's been put forward so far.

Your belief seems to be that excess deaths measure Covid deaths. My belief is that the lockdown itself has contributed to many deaths that are attributed to Covid and that many deaths attributed to Covid are better described as deaths from other illnesses.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your belief seems to be that excess deaths measure Covid deaths. My belief is that the lockdown itself has contributed to many deaths that are attributed to Covid and that many deaths attributed to Covid are better described as deaths from other illnesses.

Your belief is that experts from all over the world have exaggerated the figures, for reasons you can't explain..

The figures are wrong according to you, but you can't supply the "right" figures..

It's all very wishy-washy stuff

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your belief seems to be that excess deaths measure Covid deaths. My belief is that the lockdown itself has contributed to many deaths that are attributed to Covid and that many deaths attributed to Covid are better described as deaths from other illnesses.

Stop giving equal weight to scientific theory with peer reviewed research and your own feelings. They are not the same. They do not deserve equal weight or respect.

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, but I'm not basing a conspiracy theory on this notion.

Why do you believe that all excess deaths are due to the lockdown when you aren't actually able to support this claim with evidence?
To most people, this is irrational.

How does this play into the conspiracy theory that this is all due to a biblical prophesy?


Again, a long debunked conspiracy canard.

If you want to provide the accurate number of victims of covid, please do and the evidence you used to reach this number.
But again, I suspect you will dodge and deflect from doing so as that's the general response.

Could you also detail why you believe that the numbers of covid deaths are being inflated? What's the motive and who's controlling this global effort?
Do you believe that it's part of the conspiracy to turn everyone into cyborgs? I ask as that's the only theory that's been put forward so far.

Do you know anything about emergency powers and how often states voluntarily rescind them. It would be instructive for you to read a little about it.
Have a look at the ratchet effect theory.

How many people have died FROM Covid in Ireland?

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Your belief is that experts from all over the world have exaggerated the figures, for reasons you can't explain..

The figures are wrong according to you, but you can't supply the "right" figures..

It's all very wishy-washy stuff

Deaths are being reported as per WHO guidelines. The WHO changed the parameters for reporting Covid deaths. Why would they do that?

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Deaths are being reported as per WHO guidelines. The WHO changed the parameters for reporting Covid deaths. Why would they do that?

Why would anyone change advice?

Please stop, this is embarrassing.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Deaths are being reported as per WHO guidelines. The WHO changed the parameters for reporting Covid deaths. Why would they do that?

You are asking questions but not really answering any..

1. Why are countries all over the world exaggerating deaths from Covid?
2. If the "figures are wrong" what are the real figures? and provide your calculation methods for that (with sources please)

At least the people with the "Mark of the Beast" and "Bill Gates is Satan" stuff can provide us with some details, you haven't provided any..

Dohnjoe

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why would anyone change advice?

Please stop, this is embarrassing.

Methodology or definitions. Some organisations and countries have changed or modified the methodology for estimating death figures or the definitions of those deaths, for example, in the UK, the Public Health England changed their definition of deaths as a result of Covid in August.

Covid denialists seize on this because "they're changing it look, something must be wrong, ergo X conspiracy must be true!".

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your belief seems to be that excess deaths measure Covid deaths. My belief is that the lockdown itself has contributed to many deaths that are attributed to Covid and that many deaths attributed to Covid are better described as deaths from other illnesses.

Yes. And your belief appears to be completely irrational and based on nonsense you've read on the internet.

How many deaths attributed to Covid are better described as deaths from other illnesses and what are you basing this number on.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do you know anything about emergency powers and how often states voluntarily rescind them. It would be instructive for you to read a little about it.
Have a look at the ratchet effect theory.

This has nothing to do with any of the points I raised in my post and you ignore several questions.

Why are you ignoring questions?
Are you unable to answer them?

SafeSurfer wrote: »

How many people have died FROM Covid in Ireland?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
There you go.

You believe this number is false because you believe there is a global conspiracy.
What is the real number and how did you arrive at this figure?
Why do you believe that the number is being inflated?
Do you believe that this is due to biblical prophesies? Do you believe that it's part of the conspiracy to force people to be cyborgs?
If not, what is your belief?

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are asking questions but not really answering any..

1. Why are countries all over the world exaggerating deaths from Covid?
2. If the "figures are wrong" what are the real figures? and provide your calculation methods for that (with sources please)

At least the people with the "Mark of the Beast" and "Bill Gates is Satan" stuff can provide us with some details, you haven't provided any..

How many people have died from Covid in Ireland?

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

How many people have died from Covid in Ireland?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
If you don't accept this number, provide a better more accurate one with your sources please.

If you can't do this, stop dodging and admit as much.

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/
If you don't accept this number, provide a better more accurate one with your sources please.

If you can't do this, stop dodging and admit as much.

Again you are listing figures for the number of people who tested positive for sars cov 2 when they died.
Not how many people died due to Covid 19.

When asked how Covid-19 deaths are recorded, a spokesperson for the HSE previously told TheJournal.ie: “In cases where an individual who has had a positive Covid-19 test before or after death, this will be notified to the national surveillance system and reported by HPSC as a death in a confirmed Covid-19 case.”

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

How many people have died from Covid in Ireland?

That is the 3rd or 4th time I've (politely) asked those questions, each time you have ignored them or evaded. They are pretty straightforward.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Again you are listing figures for the number of people who tested positive for sars cov 2 when they died.
Not how many people died due to Covid 19.

When asked how Covid-19 deaths are recorded, a spokesperson for the HSE previously told TheJournal.ie: “In cases where an individual who has had a positive Covid-19 test before or after death, this will be notified to the national surveillance system and reported by HPSC as a death in a confirmed Covid-19 case.”

I understand that you don't believe these figures because you believe in a giant global conspiracy theory.
I'm not going to convince you otherwise.
I however have provided you what you asked for.

So please extend the same courtesy and stop dodging.
Provide the more accurate figures you believe and provide the source you use.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Again you are listing figures for the number of people who tested positive for sars cov 2 when they died.
Not how many people died due to Covid 19.

When asked how Covid-19 deaths are recorded, a spokesperson for the HSE previously told TheJournal.ie: “In cases where an individual who has had a positive Covid-19 test before or after death, this will be notified to the national surveillance system and reported by HPSC as a death in a confirmed Covid-19 case.”

Wrong.

https://www.who.int/classifications/icd/Guidelines_Cause_of_Death_COVID-19.pdf

2. DEFINITION FOR DEATHS DUE TO COVID-19
A death due to COVID-19 is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically
compatible illness, in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative
cause of death that cannot be related to COVID disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of
complete recovery from COVID-19 between illness and death.
A death due to COVID-19 may not be attributed to another disease (e.g. cancer) and should be
counted independently of preexisting conditions that are suspected of triggering a severe course of
COVID-19.

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

I understand that you don't believe these figures because you believe in a giant global conspiracy theory.
I'm not going to convince you otherwise.
I however have provided you what you asked for.

So please extend the same courtesy and stop dodging.
Provide the more accurate figures you believe and provide the source you use.

It's the same old chestnut every time.

Regardless of the facts, demonstrating a conspiracy requires effort. Providing credible alternative figures with sources requires effort. Supporting a claim properly requires effort.

Denying stuff requires none.

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's the same old chestnut every time.

Regardless of the facts, demonstrating a conspiracy requires effort. Providing credible alternative figures with sources requires effort. Supporting a claim properly requires effort.

Denying stuff requires none.

That and the fact these questions are being specifically avoided and ignored denotes that they know full well what they're doing.

If it was just a case of ignorance, then they would just full on run into the question without thinking.
But instead, we have folks going out of their way to dodge simple direct questions.

This I don't get.
Why go to all of this trouble, make yourself look like a conspiracy theorist and spread false, dangerous information all knowing full well it's nonsense?

runawaybishop

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's the same old chestnut every time.

Regardless of the facts, demonstrating a conspiracy requires effort. Providing credible alternative figures with sources requires effort. Supporting a claim properly requires effort.

Denying stuff requires none.