All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

NAIL ON HEAD.


Just with the (deliberately manufactured) 2008 crash assets will be gobbled up and then while corporate taxes will be slashed, personal income tax will be hiked and public services will be once again gutted to pay for "getting the economy back on track" and the usual suckers will say "we have to accept these austerity measure to get things moving again" like eejits as their take home pay is fleeced and the super rich howl with laughter at the latest exercise in taking candy from a baby.

The 2008 financial crisis wasn't "deliberately manufactured". It the culmination of many factors, the main underpinning hypothesis being a type of "bubble thinking" by most players (borrowers, lenders, institutions, etc) that house prices wouldn't drop significantly. When prices went off a cliff, the **** hit the fan, and set off a cascade of failures, and triggered systemic herd panic.

Nothing to do with the pandemic, but worth pointing false tropes.

SafeSurfer

runawaybishop wrote: »

By my logic, the Dutch wouldn't mostly have laughed at the idea of a curfew. You don't need to fabricate meaning from my posts, I have been pretty direct throughout.

Curfew was unthinkable in Holland because they are a freedom loving people. The last regime to impose a lockdown on the Dutch was the Third Reich.

SafeSurfer

runawaybishop wrote: »

Apart from the 'deliberately manufactured' bit and the suckers bit at the end this isn't untrue. Rich people keep getting richer, especially during uncertain economic times. Not all obviously, but the trend is definitely upwards for them. Still not a conspiracy.

Until I looked up some past pandemics I would have argued that the idea of the WHO faking a pandemic to enrich big pharma was tinfoil hat territory.
People forget the past so quickly.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Curfew was unthinkable in Holland because they are a freedom loving people. The last regime to impose a lockdown on the Dutch was the Third Reich.

Not what the dutchies I know say, they understand and agree with the reasons why. Apart from the 1%, who are the usual suspects for general complaining.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Curfew was unthinkable in Holland because they are a freedom loving people. The last regime to impose a lockdown on the Dutch was the Third Reich.

75% of Dutch people support the curfew, half of them think it should be extended, and a third think it should be even tougher (source) The Dutch administration decided to try a more hands-off approach to the pandemic, but that hasn't really worked out, hence they've decided on measures like the curfew

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Until I looked up some past pandemics I would have argued that the idea of the WHO faking a pandemic to enrich big pharma was tinfoil hat territory.
People forget the past so quickly.

Do you think there is some conspiracy going on with Covid, if yes, what is it?

EyesClosed

Dohnjoe wrote: »

75% of Dutch people support the curfew, half of them think it should be extended, and a third think it should be even tougher (source) The Dutch administration decided to try a more hands-off approach to the pandemic, but that hasn't really worked out, hence they've decided on measures like the curfew

Also there is still nothing saying any of this is permanent. All we have so far is a few posters who fear it might be. Literally nothing other than random fear.

storker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Do you think there is some conspiracy going on with Covid, if yes, what is it?

You still need to ask this after >1,500 posts? Wow.

I'd say that's the clearest indicator you could get that there's "nothing to see here..."

EyesClosed

storker wrote: »

You still need to ask this after >1,500 posts? Wow.

I'd say that's the clearest indicator you could get that there's "nothing to see here..."

But but but the government....

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Curfew was unthinkable in Holland because they are a freedom loving people. The last regime to impose a lockdown on the Dutch was the Third Reich.

Where is this 'freedom loving' stuff coming from?
How do you define 'free'?
Are you free to drive without insurance?
Are you free to take my car if you feel like it?
Are you free to just kill someone you don't like?

I guess you will find you're not free to do any of those things. Why do you think that is?
It's because it's for the greater good of the society we live in, and you benefit from those limitations as much as the next person.

Same with covid, we accept limits to all our 'freedoms' for the moment so that we can get control of the virus for the good of all (and you'll get the benefit of it too, even though your thinking stops you from seeing that at the moment).

SafeSurfer

runawaybishop wrote: »

Not what the dutchies I know say, they understand and agree with the reasons why. Apart from the 1%, who are the usual suspects for general complaining.

Interesting, just 1% of the usual complainers are opposed to lockdown yet the survey quoted previously would suggest that 25% are opposed to it.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Interesting, just 1% of the usual complainers are opposed to lockdown yet the survey quoted previously would suggest that 25% are opposed to it.

Most people opposed to something aren't out looting shops.

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

Where is this 'freedom loving' stuff coming from?
How do you define 'free'?
Are you free to drive without insurance?
Are you free to take my car if you feel like it?
Are you free to just kill someone you don't like?

I guess you will find you're not free to do any of those things. Why do you think that is?
It's because it's for the greater good of the society we live in, and you benefit from those limitations as much as the next person.

Same with covid, we accept limits to all our 'freedoms' for the moment so that we can get control of the virus for the good of all (and you'll get the benefit of it too, even though your thinking stops you from seeing that at the moment).

Obviously when I speak of freedom I’m not talking about driving with no insurance.

I’m referring to the Dutch concept of tolerance and their value of personal freedoms.

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Most people opposed to something aren't out looting shops.

Exactly. The silent 24%.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Exactly. The silent 24%.

To repeat my q from earlier, do you think there is some conspiracy going on with Covid, if yes, what is it?

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Do you think there is some conspiracy going on with Covid, if yes, what is it?

I think that the dangers of the Covid pandemic have been exaggerated. The way the WHO changed the calculation of how deaths are reported for example.
Also the blanket coverage of death WITH Covid figures, in hospital WITH Covid, in ICU WITH Covid.

The vast majority of people diagnosed with this virus have little or no illness or even symptoms in many cases. But they are not interviewed. Only the worst case scenario cases can be interviewed to whip up the fear.

There should be a cost benefit analysis of the current strategy. The number of deaths as a result of the response to Covid should be quantified and reported also.

8000 die each year in Ireland as a consequence of smoking. This is taxed and regulated and doesn’t result in the destruction of large parts of the economy and peoples lives.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think that the dangers of the Covid pandemic have been exaggerated. The way the WHO changed the calculation of how deaths are reported for example.
Also the blanket coverage of death WITH Covid figures, in hospital WITH Covid, in ICU WITH Covid.

The vast majority of people diagnosed with this virus have little or no illness or even symptoms in many cases. But they are not interviewed. Only the worst case scenario cases can be interviewed to whip up the fear.

There should be a cost benefit analysis of the current strategy. The number of deaths as a result of the response to Covid should be quantified and reported also.

8000 die each year in Ireland as a consequence of smoking. This is taxed and regulated and doesn’t result in the destruction of large parts of the economy and peoples lives.

So in this conspiracy, who is "whipping up fear" exactly, and why?

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

So in this conspiracy, who is "whipping up fear" exactly, and why?

Who appointed you as the chief inquisitor?

Here are some questions for you to ponder.

Have the WHO misrepresented a pandemic in the past?

Would the WHO benefit in terms of funding etc if this pandemic was perceived to be as serious as possible?

Have the WHO changed the way deaths are reported during this pandemic?

Are the figures as reported on RTÉ Six One news death FROM Covid or death WITH Covid?

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think that the dangers of the Covid pandemic have been exaggerated. The way the WHO changed the calculation of how deaths are reported for example.
Also the blanket coverage of death WITH Covid figures, in hospital WITH Covid, in ICU WITH Covid.

The vast majority of people diagnosed with this virus have little or no illness or even symptoms in many cases. But they are not interviewed. Only the worst case scenario cases can be interviewed to whip up the fear.

There should be a cost benefit analysis of the current strategy. The number of deaths as a result of the response to Covid should be quantified and reported also.

8000 die each year in Ireland as a consequence of smoking. This is taxed and regulated and doesn’t result in the destruction of large parts of the economy and peoples lives.

Feel free to read this thread (that you are posting in) where have discussed, several times, the difference between an infectious disease and smoking, or alcohol, or whatever other non-similar item the latest poster thinks is a gotcha.

SafeSurfer

runawaybishop wrote: »

Feel free to read this thread (that you are posting in) where have discussed, several times, the difference between an infectious disease and smoking, or alcohol, or whatever other non-similar item the latest poster thinks is a gotcha.

Seeing how your last post was basically “my mates say 99% of people want lockdown” in a thread showing a survey indicating 25% of people don’t. I don’t tend to rely on opinions on the thread for my information.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Seeing how your last post was basically “my mates say 99% of people want lockdown” in a thread showing a survey indicating 25% of people don’t. I don’t tend to rely on opinions on the thread for my information.

Far better to rely on crackpots on bitchute!

Fyi, the 1% is a term for an unspecified, but small, amount of people that would riot about anything. Every country has a bunch like that.

But hey, focus on that rather than the fact that you are wrong and most people in NL agree with the curfew.

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Who appointed you as the chief inquisitor?

Thanks for actually providing a conspiracy (most don't here) but am just asking a few straightforward questions about it..

Straight off the bat, it doesn't make much sense, every government in the world simultaneously decides to "exaggerate" the virus, why? lockdown measures are hurting every country economically.

Also, how? are all the media outlets, scientists, virologists, experts, medical professionals for every country also in on this? if not, then how is the pandemic being distorted exactly?

SafeSurfer

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Thanks for actually providing a conspiracy (most don't here) but am just asking a few straightforward questions about it..

Straight off the bat, it doesn't make much sense, every government in the world simultaneously decides to "exaggerate" the virus, why? lockdown measures are hurting every country economically.

Also, how? are all the media outlets, scientists, virologists, experts, medical professionals for every country also in on this? if not, then how is the pandemic being distorted exactly?

It’s not just a theory.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-s-official-coronavirus-death-toll-likely-to-have-been-overstated-report-finds-1.4295324%3fmode=amp

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s not just a theory.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ireland-s-official-coronavirus-death-toll-likely-to-have-been-overstated-report-finds-1.4295324%3fmode=amp

That's a story from July, and has already been addressed in one or more of these Covid threads. Calculating Covid deaths is not black/white, some people who contract it can go on to die of other issues, or could be infected but die of another cause. The authors of the report have stated that the estimates are largely in line

However, at the time of the report’s publication, Dr Teljeur told RTɒs News at One that the official death toll “may be a slight overestimate, but it is likely to be an accurate estimate“.

“Excess mortality is trying to contrast the number of deaths that were observed with the number that were expected. And as some of these people were expected to have died during that period, then they don’t count towards the excess mortality,” Dr Teljeur said.

“But the reality is, they did die because of Covid-19, and it therefore contributes to the overall mortality and we need to count that correctly.”

https://www.thejournal.ie/factfind-factcheck-covid-19-deaths-numbers-5304598-Dec2020/

You are claiming there is some sort of conspiracy to systematically "whip up fear", and to repeat the earlier questions, by who? and why?

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I think that the dangers of the Covid pandemic have been exaggerated. The way the WHO changed the calculation of how deaths are reported for example.
Also the blanket coverage of death WITH Covid figures, in hospital WITH Covid, in ICU WITH Covid.

The vast majority of people diagnosed with this virus have little or no illness or even symptoms in many cases. But they are not interviewed. Only the worst case scenario cases can be interviewed to whip up the fear.

There should be a cost benefit analysis of the current strategy. The number of deaths as a result of the response to Covid should be quantified and reported also.

8000 die each year in Ireland as a consequence of smoking. This is taxed and regulated and doesn’t result in the destruction of large parts of the economy and peoples lives.

I think it's possible that some people with terminal illness do catch covid, and die with covid, and contribute to the numbers.
However the majority of people making up the numbers of deaths likely would not have died but for covid.

Re smoking, that is not a communicable disease, at least not in the way covid is, so not really comparable.

If covid results in a 1% mortality, and if everyone in the country got it eventually, then that adds up to about 50,000 people.
There is also a percentage of people who seem to have symptoms that last months or longer.
Do you think that that's an acceptable result if we were to just open up again?

If we decide it is then we need to be prepared to accept those consequences, or worse.
(the mortality rate would likely increase in the absence of hospital care, as hospitals would not have
capacity for the numbers requiring care, plus additional mortality due to other patients being pushed out of the system)

EyesClosed

PintOfView wrote: »

I think it's possible that some people with terminal illness do catch covid, and die with covid, and contribute to the numbers.
However the majority of people making up the numbers of deaths likely would not have died but for covid.

Re smoking, that is not a communicable disease, at least not in the way covid is, so not really comparable.

If covid results in a 1% mortality, and if everyone in the country got it eventually, then that adds up to about 50,000 people.
There is also a percentage of people who seem to have symptoms that last months or longer.
Do you think that that's an acceptable result if we were to just open up again?

If we decide it is then we need to be prepared to accept those consequences, or worse.
(the mortality rate would likely increase in the absence of hospital care, as hospitals would not have
capacity for the numbers requiring care, plus additional mortality due to other patients being pushed out of the system)

Also yet again...nothing here to suggest any of this is permanent.

Can anyone explain the conspiracy to me?

So far it is just some folks have a worry this lockdown might stay around forever based on nothing, is that all this is?

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

I think it's possible that some people with terminal illness do catch covid, and die with covid, and contribute to the numbers.
However the majority of people making up the numbers of deaths likely would not have died but for covid.

Re smoking, that is not a communicable disease, at least not in the way covid is, so not really comparable.

What is your evidence that “the majority of people making up the numbers likely would not have died but for Covid.”?

I use smoking as an example. Do you agree that these are preventable deaths? But the government continue to licence and profit from the sale of a product responsible for 4 times as many annual deaths as Covid.

SafeSurfer

EyesClosed wrote: »

Also yet again...nothing here to suggest any of this is permanent.

Can anyone explain the conspiracy to me?

So far it is just some folks have a worry this lockdown might stay around forever based on nothing, is that all this is?

It’s a new coronavirus. It mutates. It will be with us forever and if the current strategy around dealing with it doesn’t change lockdowns and restrictions on our freedom will be with us forever also.

EyesClosed

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s a new coronavirus. It mutates. It will be with us forever and if the current strategy around dealing with it doesn’t change lockdowns and restrictions on our freedom will be with us forever also.

OK and this idea is based on what? Nowhere has anyone said restrictions are around forever

Dohnjoe

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It’s a new coronavirus. It mutates. It will be with us forever and if the current strategy around dealing with it doesn’t change lockdowns and restrictions on our freedom will be with us forever also.

No. The current measures are primarily to stop our health systems becoming overwhelmed from a disease that is quite new - we managed to get cases to drop significantly in the summer with these measures, but we didn't persist and a second wave happened. We've been doing all this without vaccines, and once they rollout properly, then the threat to the national health systems should subside significantly, meaning we should be able to drop the tougher measures (lockdown)