All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

I understand that you don't believe these figures because you believe in a giant global conspiracy theory.
I'm not going to convince you otherwise.
I however have provided you what you asked for.

So please extend the same courtesy and stop dodging.
Provide the more accurate figures you believe and provide the source you use.

No. What you have provided is the number of people who tested positive for Covid when they died.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No. What you have provided is the number of people who tested positive for Covid when they died.

Prove it.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No. What you have provided is the number of people who tested positive for Covid when they died.

This isn't true. But ok. It's what you want to believe. Good for you.

Provide the accurate figures and the source for them.
You keep dodging this point.
We all know why you are dodging this point and the more you dodge the point the more you make yourself and other conspiracy theorists look ridiculous.

SafeSurfer

runawaybishop wrote: »

Prove it.

More people will die as a result of the reaction to sars cov 2 than from Covid 19.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

More people will die as a result of the reaction to sars cov 2 than from Covid 19.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

Sorry, that's not what the article says.

There's also no need to provide this tangential article.
Just post the accurate figures you are using and the evidence for those figures.

I'm starting to suspect that you might not actually have these figures and you're just dodging the point...

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry, that's not what the article says.

There's also no need to provide this tangential article.
Just post the accurate figures you are using and the evidence for those figures.

I'm starting to suspect that you might not actually have these figures and you're just dodging the point...

You are still using figures for death with Covid and flogging them as death from Covid figures.

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

More people will die as a result of the reaction to sars cov 2 than from Covid 19.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

That article doesn't say what you think it does, and it is an opinion piece.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are still using figures for death with Covid and flogging them as death from Covid figures.

Prove it.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You are still using figures for death with Covid and flogging them as death from Covid figures.

The distinction is a silly conspiracy theorist canard that's been long debunked.
You know this. You don't accept it. That's fine.

Why aren't you providing the more accurate figures?
Why are you dodging this question repeatedly?

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

The distinction is a silly conspiracy theorist canard that's been long debunked.
You know this. You don't accept it. That's fine.

Why aren't you providing the more accurate figures?
Why are you dodging this question repeatedly?

I will simplify the question for you.

Do you believe that everyone who tested positive for sars cov 2 at the time of their death died from Covid 19. I can’t make it any simpler than that.

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

That and the fact these questions are being specifically avoided and ignored denotes that they know full well what they're doing.

If it was just a case of ignorance, then they would just full on run into the question without thinking.
But instead, we have folks going out of their way to dodge simple direct questions.

This I don't get.
Why go to all of this trouble, make yourself look like a conspiracy theorist and spread false, dangerous information all knowing full well it's nonsense?

Indeed, there's no reason or rationale to any of it

Relentlessly deny theory A - which is backed by overwhelming evidence, multiple independent sources, the consensus of scientists and experts all over the world

Wholeheartedly endorse theory B - for which they have no details, has no credible evidence and they can't be arsed answering any questions on

Bit of a glaring double standard there.

"I reject a fact-supported reality and substitute it a baseless fantasy of my own"

mcsean2163

https://theconversation.com/died-from-or-died-with-covid-19-we-need-a-transparent-approach-to-counting-coronavirus-deaths-145438

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-93-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19-had-underlying-condition-cso-1.4402354?mode=amp

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I will simplify the question for you.

Do you believe that everyone who tested positive for sars cov 2 at the time of their death died from Covid 19. I can’t make it any simpler than that.

I think it's possible that some deaths that are ascribed to Covid may have taken place anyway. However I don't think that is a significant percentage.

The graphs from the CDC clearly show that many more people have died every week since last March compared to previous years.
The numbers are not collated as clearly available for Ireland, but we wouldn't expect them to be as bad as we had a successful lockdown in Apr and May, so the excess deaths will be more pronounced for Mar/Apr/May, and again Dec/Jan and perhaps Feb of this year.

It is your contention that these excess deaths are actually the result of the lockdown, rather than the virus.
I'm interested to know what aspect of the lockdown you think killed those people?
And did anyone die from Covid at all?

And last year, when the army had to lend a hand carrying coffins in Italy, was that because of lockdowns as well?
And if we didn't have a lockdown last Apr May would we have been fine, and not needed our army to carry coffins?

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

I think it's possible that some deaths that are ascribed to Covid may have taken place anyway. However I don't think that is a significant percentage.

The graphs from the CDC clearly show that many more people have died every week since last March compared to previous years.
The numbers are not collated as clearly available for Ireland, but we wouldn't expect them to be as bad as we had a successful lockdown in Apr and May, so the excess deaths will be more pronounced for Mar/Apr/May, and again Dec/Jan and perhaps Feb of this year.

It is your contention that these excess deaths are actually the result of the lockdown, rather than the virus.
I'm interested to know what aspect of the lockdown you think killed those people?
And did anyone die from Covid at all?

And last year, when the army had to lend a hand carrying coffins in Italy, was that because of lockdowns as well?
And if we didn't have a lockdown last Apr May would we have been fine, and not needed our army to carry coffins?

The issue isn’t whether some of the deaths ascribed to Covid 19 would have taken place anyway. It’s that all deaths in people who test positive for Sars cov 2 are ascribed as Covid 19 deaths except for cases such as trauma.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I will simplify the question for you.

Do you believe that everyone who tested positive for sars cov 2 at the time of their death died from Covid 19. I can’t make it any simpler than that.

No.

Never said otherwise.

Can you now provide what I've been asking for?
Please provide the more accurate figure and the source you are using.

SafeSurfer

King Mob wrote: »

No.

Never said otherwise.

Can you now provide what I've been asking for?
Please provide the more accurate figure and the source you are using.

The penny has dropped.
Thank you for admitting that.

So if more deaths are being ascribed to Covid 19 than is actually the case it is fair to say that Covid 19 deaths are inflated, over represented, exaggerated, reported in such a way as to make it seem worse than it really is.

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed, there's no reason or rationale to any of it

Relentlessly deny theory A - which is backed by overwhelming evidence, multiple independent sources, the consensus of scientists and experts all over the world

Wholeheartedly endorse theory B - for which they have no details, has no credible evidence and they can't be arsed answering any questions on

Bit of a glaring double standard there.

"I reject a fact-supported reality and substitute it a baseless fantasy of my own"

I believe it's because it allows them to pretend to be an expert with secret knowledge.
This is why they have to dodge questions constantly as acknowledging that they don't know something or can't explain a plot hole ruins the fantasy.
And it's why simple questions seem to upset them so easily.

But perhaps a serious pandemic where millions of people have died is not the time to play act as a rebel researcher...

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The penny has dropped.
Thank you for admitting that.

So if more deaths are being ascribed to Covid 19 than is actually the case it is fair to say that Covid 19 deaths are inflated, over represented, exaggerated, reported in such a way as to make it seem worse than it really is.

Ok. Sure. You got me good there. Good job. Nice work. You tricked me into admitting that I don't hold a position I never held.

So, how much do you believe they are overstating?
What's the more accurate figure and where does that figure come from?

runawaybishop

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The issue isn’t whether some of the deaths ascribed to Covid 19 would have taken place anyway. It’s that all deaths in people who test positive for Sars cov 2 are ascribed as Covid 19 deaths except for cases such as trauma.

Wrong, as linked previously.

Please provide proof.

PintOfView

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The issue isn’t whether some of the deaths ascribed to Covid 19 would have taken place anyway. It’s that all deaths in people who test positive for Sars cov 2 are ascribed as Covid 19 deaths except for cases such as trauma.

That's not the issue!
The issue is the significant number of dead people over and above what is normal.
You're saying they died of the lockdown, you say they didn't die of covid!!

The issue is that the conclusion you are drawing from the facts is not logical.

Dohnjoe

112 pages in and we are still no closer to any coherent conspiracy that these changes will be "permanent".

SafeSurfer

PintOfView wrote: »

That's not the issue!
The issue is the significant number of dead people over and above what is normal.
You're saying they died of the lockdown, you say they didn't die of covid!!

The issue is that the conclusion you are drawing from the facts is not logical.

Read your post again.

You say

“The issue is the significant number of dead people over and above what is normal”

Lockdowns are not normal.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Read your post again.

You say

“The issue is the significant number of dead people over and above what is normal”

Lockdowns are not normal.

Neither is a pandemic.

It's pretty clear now you have nothing backing up your claims.

Why are you avoiding points? How do you justify this to yourself?

aido79

SafeSurfer wrote: »

More people will die as a result of the reaction to sars cov 2 than from Covid 19.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

You seem to be seriously confused. Covid19 is the reaction to SARS cov 2. SARS cov 2 is the virus and covid19 is the disease. A person can't get covid19 without being infected with sars cov 2.
It's a bit like HIV and Aids. HIV is the virus and Aids is the disease. Most people who have Aids don't die from the disease itself but from an immune deficiency( hence the name acquired immune deficiency syndrome) which can lead to other things killing them such as pneumonia.

So asking if someone died from covid19 or with covid19 is like asking if someone died from Aids or with Aids.

Tea drinker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

112 pages in and we are still no closer to any coherent conspiracy that these changes will be "permanent".

Or to put it another way, one year in it's as bad as ever, and best case scenario we are looking like it's another year before we are out of this mess, and mask wearing (for example) is being embraced as a permanent change. International travel may never return to previous levels. Working from home (a bonus to me, I'm not complaining) is becoming increasingly cemented in.
Most politicians aren't talking about a return to normal, they talk about returning to a *new* normal, ergo they are also peddling conspiracies that at least some the changes are permanent. I doubt *all* Covid measures will be permanent... and what is permanent - 25 years? 50 years?

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I have no issue with that, nothing worse than walking down the street and seeing some knacker hawking green **** all over the pavement or being on a bus/train and people coughing all over the place.

You think wearing a mask bestows the wearer with good manners? :-) Well they will gob away, likely without a mask, or best case lower the mask. They certanly aren't going to gob into the mask :-)

The mental health fallout continues... watching adults arguing on the street, a man shoving his daughter, a mental guy going around pissing in the stream and gulping scrumpy jack or or some other sh1te. That's in the space of a few hours yesterday.

King Mob

Tea drinker wrote: »

Or to put it another way, one year in it's as bad as ever, and best case scenario we are looking like it's another year before we are out of this mess, and mask wearing (for example) is being embraced as a permanent change.

So how does everyone wearing a mask forever benefit the people who are behind faking the pandemic?

SafeSurfer

aido79 wrote: »

You seem to be seriously confused. Covid19 is the reaction to SARS cov 2. SARS cov 2 is the virus and covid19 is the disease. A person can't get covid19 without being infected with sars cov 2.
It's a bit like HIV and Aids. HIV is the virus and Aids is the disease. Most people who have Aids don't die from the disease itself but from an immune deficiency( hence the name acquired immune deficiency syndrome) which can lead to other things killing them such as pneumonia.

So asking if someone died from covid19 or with covid19 is like asking if someone died from Aids or with Aids.

No. If you believe what you have just written then it is you who are seriously confused.

aido79

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No. If you believe what you have just written then it is you who are seriously confused.

Which bit should I not believe?

SafeSurfer

aido79 wrote: »

Which bit should I not believe?

This:
So asking if someone died from covid19 or with covid19 is like asking if someone died from Aids or with Aids.

Is the death of everyone who has AIDS at the time of death registered as a death from AIDS?
Now ask yourself the same question about Covid 19.

King Mob

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is the death of everyone who has AIDS at the time of death registered as a death from AIDS?
Now ask yourself the same question about Covid 19.

And has been explained to you, this isn't happening with covid.
It's a lie made up by conspiracy theorists.

Why are you not providing the real numbers?
Why are you dodging this point?

Dohnjoe

Tea drinker wrote: »

Or to put it another way, one year in it's as bad as ever, and best case scenario we are looking like it's another year before we are out of this mess, and mask wearing (for example) is being embraced as a permanent change. International travel may never return to previous levels. Working from home (a bonus to me, I'm not complaining) is becoming increasingly cemented in.
Most politicians aren't talking about a return to normal, they talk about returning to a *new* normal, ergo they are also peddling conspiracies that at least some the changes are permanent. I doubt *all* Covid measures will be permanent... and what is permanent - 25 years? 50 years?

No they aren't at all.

All these measures are common sense methods to reduce the spread of a highly infectious disease. Honestly it's very simple stuff that even children can understand.

Conspiracy theorists don't think of it that way. They work in a different sphere altogether. They think that governments around the world are "using" the virus to put in place authoritarian measures to "control" people. They fantasize these measures will be permanent for nefarious reasons, which is why we have threads like this.

You think wearing a mask bestows the wearer with good manners? :-) Well they will gob away, likely without a mask, or best case lower the mask. They certanly aren't going to gob into the mask :-)

A mask reduces the spread of the virus. Nothing to do with politics, world views, conspiracies or anything.