To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

VG31

Israel are dropping mandatory masks everywhere except schools from Tuesday.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-to-drop-indoor-mask-requirement-on-june-15-as-daily-cases-near-zero/

patnor1011

Seanergy wrote: »

Envious of you hoarding stolen? N95s from those in need, far from it as for the rest of your comment it belongs in CP.

You failed to look after yourself by failing to look after others by hoarding N95 masks with no intention of using them during COVID-19, own it.

Meh. This Ireland. Not China. Or any other communist or ultra SJW paradise country where everyone look after others first.
Even in case of aviation emergency you are required to look after yourself first and only then look after others, if you can or have time to do so. You are basically turning stuff upside down hiding behind some imaginary civic moral duty.
You are still couple of miracles short in case you aim for a sainthood.

To say his masks were stolen is extremely offensive and talking stuff like this can have consequences in real life.

Irish Stones

If people who took the vaccine still can't get rid of the masks because they could infect others or be infected by others, even if ALL people were vaccinated we still couldn't drop the masks, becaue everyone could be infected or be infectious.
So, when will they be dropped? Never?

odyssey06

Irish Stones wrote: »

If people who took the vaccine still can't get rid of the masks because they could infect others or be infected by others, even if ALL people were vaccinated we still couldn't drop the masks, becaue everyone could be infected or be infectious.
So, when will they be dropped? Never?

If everyone or vast majority is vaccinated then we should reach a tipping point of very low levels in circulation.
Its a bit different to now where still lots to be vaccinated fully and hundreds of cases a day.

Sconsey

patnor1011 wrote: »

Meh. This Ireland. Not China. Or any other communist or ultra SJW paradise country where everyone look after others first.
Even in case of aviation emergency you are required to look after yourself first and only then look after others, if you can or have time to do so. You are basically turning stuff upside down hiding behind some imaginary civic moral duty.
You are still couple of miracles short in case you aim for a sainthood.

To say his masks were stolen is extremely offensive and talking stuff like this can have consequences in real life.

So much bullsh1t in such a short post. Adults put their masks on first if the plane depressurises because of the risk of hypoxia. They won't be able to help their children if they get hypoxia, but you can help someone else recover quickly by putting an oxygen mask on them. So your comparison is moronic, along with the rest of your argument. Maybe stick with the communist China or SJW paradise nonsense, you are seriously struggling with your other comparisons.

Irish Stones

odyssey06 wrote: »

If everyone or vast majority is vaccinated then we should reach a tipping point of very low levels in circulation.
Its a bit different to now where still lots to be vaccinated fully and hundreds of cases a day.

There won't be low level of viral circulation, because it will be around anyway, only that people could get less serious consequences and symptoms from the virus, but it will be still around.

And because it will be around and people could get or transmit it, then it would be advisable to protect ourselves forever.
Masks cut the transmission, vaccines don't, so the feeling that I have is that masks will be at leas strongly advised for several years more.

odyssey06

Irish Stones wrote: »

There won't be low level of viral circulation, because it will be around anyway, only that people could get less serious consequences and symptoms from the virus, but it will be still around.
And because it will be around and people could get or transmit it, then it would be advisable to protect ourselves forever.
Masks cut the transmission, vaccines don't, so the feeling that I have is that masks will be at leas strongly advised for several years more.

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that vaccines don't cut transmission (if by that you mean in any way).
They don't cut it 100% but they significantly reduce the chances of you passing it on, and maybe keep a lid on super spreader events.

Israel were mulling over dropping their indoor mask mandate due to numbers vaccinated, if they do that and don't see any issues then I'd expect more countries to follow suit when they get further through their vaccination program.

Irish Stones

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that vaccines don't cut transmission (if by that you mean in any way).

It's been said several times. If the vaccines cut the transmission by a huge amount, then we would see that at least the vaccinated ones would be free of the masks, but no, they have to follow all the restrictions, exactly like the others.
It is likely that they have changed their mind on the matter, though, but this is confusing and doesn't help people understand what's going on.

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

It's been said several times. If the vaccines cut the transmission by a huge amount, then we would see that at least the vaccinated ones would be free of the masks, but no, they have to follow all the restrictions, exactly like the others.
It is likely that they have changed their mind on the matter, though, but this is confusing and doesn't help people understand what's going on.

How does a business owner know if the person walking through the door is vaccinated?

Unicorn Milk Latte

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that vaccines don't cut transmission (if by that you mean in any way).
They don't cut it 100% but they significantly reduce the chances of you passing it on, and maybe keep a lid on super spreader events.

The main point is that vaccines are confirmed to reduce fatality and hospitalisation, but the effect they have on transmissions are not fully clear yet, because the studies looking into that are still in progress.


There is one UK study about household transmission, available here, that finds that after the first vaccine dose, transmission is also significantly reduced.

But this is an early, small scale result. Still, if larger studies have similar findings, that would be very positive news, that also results in reduction of non-pharmaceutical measures, like masks.


The whole point of the continued mask mandate is
- we don't have definite data on the effects of vaccines on transmission, so we err on the side of caution
- a very large part of the population is not fully vaccinated yet, so we continue with masking till the numbers look better.

Common sense.

xhomelezz

Irish Stones wrote: »

There won't be low level of viral circulation, because it will be around anyway, only that people could get less serious consequences and symptoms from the virus, but it will be still around.

And because it will be around and people could get or transmit it, then it would be advisable to protect ourselves forever.
Masks cut the transmission, vaccines don't, so the feeling that I have is that masks will be at leas strongly advised for several years more.

Imo, all we have to do, is to wait, till we see full impact of vaccines. And in the meantime, follow some basic guidelines, while country is reopening. If businesses opening, society opening etc. mean I'll be wearing a mask a bit longer, well it's worth it. Isn't it.

patnor1011

Sconsey wrote: »

So much bullsh1t in such a short post. Adults put their masks on first if the plane depressurises because of the risk of hypoxia. They won't be able to help their children if they get hypoxia, but you can help someone else recover quickly by putting an oxygen mask on them. So your comparison is moronic, along with the rest of your argument. Maybe stick with the communist China or SJW paradise nonsense, you are seriously struggling with your other comparisons.

Calm down. Main point here is ridiculous mental gymnastics and fake outrage about failing protect others protecting himself and absolutely insane argument that his masks were stolen.
By that logic he and you and everyone who thanked you and him are putting lives in danger by hoarding food stolen from poor third world people suffering from starvation. That is if you keep few cans of baked beans in cupboard or any other food in fridge.

xhomelezz

patnor1011 wrote: »

Calm down. Main point here is ridiculous mental gymnastics and fake outrage about failing protect others protecting himself and absolutely insane argument that his masks were stolen.
By that logic he and you and everyone who thanked you and him are putting lives in danger by hoarding food stolen from poor third world people suffering from starvation. That is if you keep few cans of baked beans in cupboard or any other food in fridge.

I believe this was posted just to proof Sconseys point. Well done you!

Seanergy

patnor1011 wrote: »

To say his masks were stolen is extremely offensive and talking stuff like this can have consequences in real life.

Said it himself.

Switch the focus from the hoarding to the stealing, if you like.

paw patrol wrote: »

he is self employed so maybe he stole from revenue as they would be labelled a business expense.
but you question me like i'd care if he stole them from work? I wouldn't.

landofthetree

Face masks could disappear from parts of public life as early as next week, health minister Hugo de Jonge said after a meeting of ministers involved in combating the crisis.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/06/have-face-masks-had-their-day-they-are-up-for-discussion-minister-confirms/

Hopefully the rest of Europe follows.

odyssey06

landofthetree wrote: »

Face masks could disappear from parts of public life as early as next week, health minister Hugo de Jonge said after a meeting of ministers involved in combating the crisis.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/06/have-face-masks-had-their-day-they-are-up-for-discussion-minister-confirms/

Hopefully the rest of Europe follows.

Headline doesnt really match the content:

"Face masks are likely to remain a requirement on public transport and in busy places."

odyssey06

In a study published in March 2021, CDC researchers examined case and death rates at the county level after mask mandates were put into place and found the mandates were associated with slower transmission.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

County level assessments take into account that while there may not have been state level mask mandates, there could be local county and city mandates covering many people.
Mandating masks was associated with a decrease in daily COVID-19 case and death growth rates within 20 days of implementation. Allowing on-premises restaurant dining was associated with an increase in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 41–100 days after implementation and an increase in daily death growth rates 61–100 days after implementation.

It's referenced in this wider article considering the effectiveness of measures such as masks, distancing, school closures.
https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/22456544/covid-19-mask-mandates-lockdown-debate-evidence

Mad_maxx

Presume there is no need to wear a mask after you get second vaccination?

odyssey06

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Presume there is no need to wear a mask after you get second vaccination?

Well it would be two weeks after your second vaccination...

I think we'll still be wearing masks until all adults have been offered vaccine.

There's still a small risk of transmission from someone fully vaccinated, and there's a large number of people still un-vaccinated.

Also, shops & buses won't know who is and isn't vaccinated so prudent thing is to still require masks.

CalamariFritti

oisinog wrote: »

Up to 80% reduction in the tranmission rate, sure they are not helping

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

You gotta be kidding. Did you actually read this?

Besides. Use your head. If their 'helping rate' was anywhere near that we would have had zero covid for months at this point.

Any actual study came out at 'so little its hard to quantify'.

Sconsey

CalamariFritti wrote: »

You gotta be kidding. Did you actually read this?

Besides. Use your head. If their 'helping rate' was anywhere near that we would have had zero covid for months at this point.

Any actual study came out at 'so little its hard to quantify'.

You can print it in black and white:

Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2.

But the anti-maskers will still refuse to believe, perfer their own form of armchair expertise, and live in their delusional bubble.

'Use your head' you say? Ignore the facts, ignore actual experts and instead listen to illinformed facebook-reading experts? yeah right.

Any actual study came out at 'so little its hard to quantify'???? Ehh no, there is a table at the end listing studies and quantified results. You are living in some kind of mental state that blinds to you the facts that are staring you in the face. You just came out with the exact opposite of the content that is posted...actual studies with quantified results.

gmisk

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-detained-singapore-after-video-20845645

What a plonker

xhomelezz

gmisk wrote: »

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-detained-singapore-after-video-20845645

What a plonker

Oh I didn't know, I had no idea, I don't believe ...

And now he plays a victim for media.

Seanergy

Within hours of the video being on social media, he was arrested.

Did anything beyond 'an investigation' happened for this anti-mask behaviour on the Luas last November?

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1323308792193470464

CalamariFritti

Sconsey wrote: »

You can print it in black and white:



But the anti-maskers will still refuse to believe, perfer their own form of armchair expertise, and live in their delusional bubble.

'Use your head' you say? Ignore the facts, ignore actual experts and instead listen to illinformed facebook-reading experts? yeah right.

Any actual study came out at 'so little its hard to quantify'???? Ehh no, there is a table at the end listing studies and quantified results. You are living in some kind of mental state that blinds to you the facts that are staring you in the face. You just came out with the exact opposite of the content that is posted...actual studies with quantified results.

It reads like a clobbered together aggregation of 'clutching at straws'.

2 hair dressers over a 2 week period based on customers who agreed to be interviewed? Seriously?
When you read that kind of ****e in what is supposed be an aggregated case for masks from an official body (CDC) then you know they are desperate.

Funny no mention of the actual study in Denmark with a proper control group. No mention of comparisons of US states with and without mask mandate.

Also in that table. Factor 0.08. Reduction by 1.32%. And so on. Speaking of being blind to facts....

odyssey06

CalamariFritti wrote: »

It reads like a clobbered together aggregation of 'clutching at straws'.

2 hair dressers over a 2 week period based on customers who agreed to be interviewed? Seriously?
When you read that kind of ****e in what is supposed be an aggregated case for masks from an official body (CDC) then you know they are desperate.

Funny no mention of the actual study in Denmark with a proper control group. No mention of comparisons of US states with and without mask mandate.

Also in that table. Factor 0.08. Reduction by 1.32%. And so on. Speaking of being blind to facts....

The CDC comparison of US counties showed a reduction which tracked actual mask mandates in effect at county and city level. This is more accurate than state level as state level tracking does not account for bye laws and ordnances.
It is linked a few posts back.

The Danish study showed a small reduction in cases by the wearer and expressly stated it could not assess their use as barriers / indirect protection to others.
You are misrepresenting the Danish study by making claims for it the actual study expressly declared as not valid.

CalamariFritti

odyssey06 wrote: »

The CDC comparison of US counties showed a reduction which tracked actual mask mandates in effect at county and city level. This is more accurate than state level as state level tracking does not account for bye laws and ordnances.
It is linked a few posts back.

The Danish study showed a small reduction in cases by the wearer and expressly stated it could not assess their use as barriers / indirect protection to others.
You are misrepresenting the Danish study by making claims for it the actual study expressly declared as not valid.

So what do you say to my other points?

The fact that the link I was replying to is not much more than an officially stamped looking page with an impressive looking amount of entries that upon closer inspection state pathetic numbers?

I dare say the OP who posted the CDC link never went past looking at the source and the long impressive looking list but didnt quite get around to taking in the actual information.

Sconsey

CalamariFritti wrote: »

It reads like a clobbered together aggregation of 'clutching at straws'.

Seems like you have not got a clue how scientific conclusions are achieved. You see when enough evidence all points in the same direction we can make conclusions. Sad attempts to discredit the method by calling the process 'cobbered together' only highlight your own ignorance.

hair dressers over a 2 week period based on customers who agreed to be interviewed? Seriously?
When you read that kind of ****e in what is supposed be an aggregated case for masks from an official body (CDC) then you know they are desperate.

The CDC are desperate for what exactly? Do you think there is a massive conspiracy headed by the CDC to fool people into wearing masks? Because that would suggest you are even more deluded than I first thought.
It's funny you focus on that one reference and manage to avoid all the other studies cited in the report.

Funny no mention of the actual study in Denmark with a proper control group. No mention of comparisons of US states with and without mask mandate.

See Odessy06's response. By your logic wouldn't the Danish study just be 'cobbered together'?
Again, funny you don't mention any of the studies in the report other than the 'hair dressers' one? Why is that?

Also in that table. Factor 0.08. Reduction by 1.32%. And so on. Speaking of being blind to facts....

Wayyyhayy you looked at another reference, here are some more... by the way I don't think you understand how significant a DAILY decline of 1.32% could be.

• Masking reduced risk of infection by 70% (unadjusted OR 0.30, 95% CI = 0.17-0.52)
• Masking reduced risk of secondary infection by 79% (adjusted OR 0.21, 95% CI = 0.06-0.79)
• Always having used a mask reduced infection by 77% (adjusted OR 0.23, 95% CI = 0.096-0.60).
• A 10% increase in mask wearing tripled the likelihood of stopping community transmission (adjusted OR 3.53, 95% CI = 2.03-6.43).
• Estimated daily decline in new diagnoses among HCW of 0.49%
• Estimated weekly 24%-46% decline in new diagnoses following mask mandates.
• Nationally mandating face masks for employees early in the pandemic could have reduced the weekly growth rate of cases and deaths by more than 10 percentage points in late April and 19%- 47% fewer deaths nationally by the end of May.

xhomelezz

CalamariFritti wrote: »

You gotta be kidding. Did you actually read this?

Besides. Use your head. If their 'helping rate' was anywhere near that we would have had zero covid for months at this point.

Any actual study came out at 'so little its hard to quantify'.

Thejournal.ie is there for you

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-masks-face-coverings-5390212-Jun2021/

Not that I like that news source and especially comments section, but article is good enough with links.

A large majority of people want masks to continue to be mandatory even when most people have been vaccinated: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-times-poll-public-split-on-pace-of-lifting-covid-19-restrictions-1.4596630

I genuinely believe that masks are popular in Ireland. People appear to enjoy wearing them.