To Mask or not to two - Mask Megathread cont.

Onion Bahji

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

How quaint. The message you’ve been taught to repeat is indeed a simple one.

Anyway. No need to argue. I think we can all see the end is in sight one way or another

xhomelezz

Onion Bahji wrote: »

Nonsense. People wear masks because they are afraid. Afraid of doing something illegal, afraid of the baying-mob, or afraid of the virus. This old chestnut that people are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts is transparent codswallop. It’s time to take them off. Or leave them on if you wish but leave the rest of us alone ffs. You’ve dragged this out for long enough.

This fear narrative being pushed in similar posts like this one is getting old. I would bet few bucks that's the common thing in the most of anti-mask posts on this thread.

Who is "the rest of us"?

ThunbergsAreGo

It's going to be a great day when masks are no longer required.

Hate them myself, big nose and glasses don't play well with them, and they actively make me less likely to do things.

Irish Stones

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

and they actively make me less likely to do things.

Well, I can tell you that on my job I am proner to making mistakes when I wear the mask, much much more likely to happen compared to when I'm not wearing it.
What can the explanation be?

ThunbergsAreGo

Irish Stones wrote: »

Well, I can tell you that on my job I am proner to making mistakes when I wear the mask, much much more likely to happen compared to when I'm not wearing it.
What can the explanation be?

Because its not natural, impairs breathing and vision (if wearing glasses).

Also we have no training in how to wear masks

And I can realise in a way why they were/are needed. I just hate the things

Seanergy

xhomelezz wrote: »

This fear narrative being pushed in similar posts like this one is getting old. I would bet few bucks that's the common thing in the most of anti-mask posts on this thread.

Your money would be safe.

The anti-mask crowd live with and in as much fear as any other group. They are afraid of a tiny piece of cloth infront of the their mouth and nose FFS.

Painting themselves as individuals/a collective who have mastered fear is pathetic and erroneous.

odyssey06

Irish Stones wrote: »

Well, I can tell you that on my job I am proner to making mistakes when I wear the mask, much much more likely to happen compared to when I'm not wearing it.
What can the explanation be?

I don't think that's just a mask thing.
When I started shopping pre-mask but concerned with maintaining distance, one way system in shops etc I always forgot stuff or wasn't as good as finding a backup for an out of stock item.

When I first started wearing a mask, I found it made a big difference if I put it on well before I walked in the shop. Putting it on just as you got to shop entrance, there was too much other stuff to be focused on and I didn't have enough time to get the mask sitting comfortably and be accustomed to it.

Tork

Irish Stones wrote: »

Well, I can tell you that on my job I am proner to making mistakes when I wear the mask, much much more likely to happen compared to when I'm not wearing it.
What can the explanation be?

It's pretty simple really. You're very vocal about your dislike of masks and you have built them up to be a monster in your head. When your mindset is like that, of course you're going to mess things up. Years ago, my mum worked with a superstitious person who had a genuine fear of Friday the 13th. My mum is one of the least superstitious people you could meet but she dreaded going into work on that day. Things tended to go wrong on that day and it was all down to this silly colleague and her superstition.

fun loving criminal

I HATE wearing masks with a passion. My ears get sore with the loops and my glasses fog up. I would call my issues minor. Minor in comparison to time spent on a ventilator or death.

I hear similar excuses when it comes to ventilation and opening windows and doors. "It's too cold outside". You can do something about being cold. But you can't do much on life support.

Irish Stones

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't think that's just a mask thing.
When I started shopping pre-mask but concerned with maintaining distance, one way system in shops etc I always forgot stuff or wasn't as good as finding a backup for an out of stock item.

When I first started wearing a mask, I found it made a big difference if I put it on well before I walked in the shop. Putting it on just as you got to shop entrance, there was too much other stuff to be focused on and I didn't have enough time to get the mask sitting comfortably and be accustomed to it.

I can't see any correlation, I mean, I put on the mask before walking in to work, and my mistakes can occur anytime during the day if I wear the mask, but it seems to me I am more precise when I take it off for a few minutes (like when nobody else is around me).

Irish Stones

Tork wrote: »

It's pretty simple really. You're very vocal about your dislike of masks and you have built them up to be a monster in your head. When your mindset is like that, of course you're going to mess things up. Years ago, my mum worked with a superstitious person who had a genuine fear of Friday the 13th. My mum is one of the least superstitious people you could meet but she dreaded going into work on that day. Things tended to go wrong on that day and it was all down to this silly colleague and her superstition.

Well, the mask is still a monster when I pull it down to my chin for a few minutes when I'm alone, I still have it on me, but I feel more focused on things.
Of course I hate it, but I hate both when I have on my mouth and nose and when I have it under my chin.
I live in Italy, the temperatures are going up, near to 30 degrees today, for instance, and the summer still has to kick in, I don't know how I will feel in a month.

daydorunrun

Seanergy wrote: »

Your money would be safe.

The anti-mask crowd live with and in as much fear as any other group. They are afraid of a tiny piece of cloth infront of the their mouth and nose FFS.

Painting themselves as individuals/a collective who have mastered fear is pathetic and erroneous.

Tell that to parents of child with autism or learning disabilities. Nothing to do with fear, everything to do with it being unnatural and restrictive to human interaction. My daughter has found some parts of lockdown easy with her condition but masks on carers and everybody else has been the one issue that has led to anxiety for her. The sooner they are gone the better taking into account they will continue to be used in certain settings.

odyssey06

Irish Stones wrote: »

I can't see any correlation, I mean, I put on the mask before walking in to work, and my mistakes can occur anytime during the day if I wear the mask, but it seems to me I am more precise when I take it off for a few minutes (like when nobody else is around me).

If someone is standing beside me and I'm doing something at my desk, I feel like I'm less focused \ more likely to make a mistake \ big precise.
Is it possible the mask has sortof taken on a life on its own for you (because it's uncomfortable) and is now having an effect a bit like the person hovering at the desk...

sabat

Dr Fauci himself:

“Sylvia: Masks are really for infected people to prevent them from spreading infection to people who are not infected rather than protecting uninfected people from acquiring infection,” wrote the head of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases (NIAID).

“The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out virus, which is small enough to pass through the material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in keep[ing] out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you. I do not recommend that you wear a mask, particularly since you are going to a very low risk location.”

https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-show-his-flip-flopping-on-wearing-masks-to-fight-covid/

Unicorn Milk Latte

So, in the earliest days - February 2020 - scientists like Fauci were in the process of figuring out the best way to deal with the pandemic. Details on how exactly it spread - clusters and super spreaders - were not confirmed, and there was a general shortage of medical masks.


Trying to create some drama out of a perfectly normal process is counterproductive.



As soon as knowledge of SARS-COV-2 improved, no serious scientists questioned the usefulness of masks.

Definite studies were out by mid 2020.

xhomelezz

That email was sent in February 2020..

Capt'n Midnight

fun loving criminal wrote: »

I HATE wearing masks with a passion. My ears get sore with the loops and my glasses fog up. I would call my issues minor. Minor in comparison to time spent on a ventilator or death.

Try the usual stuff, make sure the metal strip is bent to seal the gap better

if you can move your glasses a cm further down your nose it may help

haven't tried any of the anti fog stuff so don't know if it works



Vietnam is a poor county with a population twenty times ours at 98 million.

Thanks to lockdowns, quarantines, social distancing and masks they've had less than 50 confirmed Covid deaths.

Necro

sabat don't post in this thread again

Irish Stones

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Try the usual stuff, make sure the metal strip is bent to seal the gap better

That metal strip doesn't keep the shape you give it, every now and then it needs to be readjusted.

if you can move your glasses a cm further down your nose it may help

I tried this, but I see less clearly, maybe because the increased distance from the eyes makes them out of focus.

haven't tried any of the anti fog stuff so don't know if it works

I think they should have invented masks that prevent glass fogging

is_that_so

Irish Stones wrote: »

I tried this, but I see less clearly, maybe because the increased distance from the eyes makes them out of focus.

Pull the mask up higher instead, almost to the top of your nose and wear glasses normally. It should work.

odyssey06

Irish Stones wrote: »

I tried this, but I see less clearly, maybe because the increased distance from the eyes makes them out of focus.
I think they should have invented masks that prevent glass fogging

I think I saw some people online who used surgical tape to secure the top of the mask under their eyes. Given you are wearing one for work that might be worth trying?

If all else fails, I know this isn't a cheap solution, but can you tolerate contacts \ do they work with your prescription?

paw patrol

xhomelezz wrote: »

That email was sent in February 2020..

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

So, in the earliest days - February 2020 - scientists like Fauci were in the process of figuring out the best way to deal with the pandemic. Details on how exactly it spread - clusters and super spreaders - were not confirmed, and there was a general shortage of medical masks.


Trying to create some drama out of a perfectly normal process is counterproductive.



As soon as knowledge of SARS-COV-2 improved, no serious scientists questioned the usefulness of masks.

Definite studies were out by mid 2020.

you both act like this covid vrius is some special virus and in the 6 months (march - summer 2020) the science just re-wrote itself completely a full 180degree turn. absolute anti science nonsense.
Masks are for show.

Might as well say it - I was right.

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

As soon as knowledge of SARS-COV-2 improved, no serious scientists questioned the usefulness of masks.
.

I think you need to read more.....or else redefine what "serious scientist" means.

But you did post here previously that cancer patients can't take the covid vaccine so maybe that's the level of your "science".
and ignore me when I proved you wrong.

odyssey06

paw patrol wrote: »

you both act like this covid vrius is some special virus and in the 6 months (march - summer 2020) the science just re-wrote itself completely a full 180degree turn. absolute anti science nonsense.
Masks are for show.
Might as well say it - I was right.
I think you need to read more.....or else redefine what "serious scientist" means.

Anti science nonsense alright!
As if science isn't a fixed set of knowledge or understanding.

Masks are not for show. Nor were they in march 2020 when they were essential PPE as direct protection.
What changed was examining their use as barriers rather than PPE to offer indirect protection.
What was said about masks as PPE in march 2020 wasn't wrong, what's wrong is to apply it to their user as barriers.

Might as well say it, your entire post isn't credible.

paw patrol

odyssey06 wrote: »

Anti science nonsense alright!
As if science isn't a fixed set of knowledge or understanding.

Of course, I agree
But you don't flip it in about turn in a few months.
we are taking about decades of science... does covid have some penetrating powers that other virus doesn't?

odyssey06 wrote: »

Masks are not for show. Nor were they in march 2020 when they were essential PPE as direct protection.
What changed was examining their use as barriers rather than PPE to offer indirect protection.
What was said about masks as PPE in march 2020 wasn't wrong, what's wrong is to apply it to their user as barriers.

they are - we are talking about cloth masks not grades ones.

The protection offer is minimal and not practical once mask moves /touches etc..
you can't compare karen in Dunnes slurping a latte to a nurse /surgeon in a controlled environment. like surgery.

Add the some countries (like france for example) has said the masks are ineffective and required a higher grade ppf3.

Irish Stones

is_that_so wrote: »

Pull the mask up higher instead, almost to the top of your nose and wear glasses normally. It should work.

This is what I usually do, I'm pulling it up constantly, but is slips down

odyssey06

paw patrol wrote: »

Of course, I agree
But you don't flip it in about turn in a few months.

they are - we are talking about cloth masks not grades ones.

The protection offer is minimal and not practical once mask moves /touches etc..
you can't compare karen in Dunnes slurping a latte to a nurse /surgeon in a controlled environment. like surgery.

Add the some countries (like france for example) has said the masks are ineffective and required a higher grade ppf3.

Exactly you can't compare Karen in Dunnes to a surgeon, yet that's what the advice for masks as PPE was being framed against and why it's invalid to apply it to their use by the general public to limit spread as barriers.
For example, uninfected staff in close medical care scenarios who need masks as PPE when dealing with infected patients. The most likely source of any contamination on the mask is from the infected patient.
Versus loose interactions in public settings where we want to contain the droplets of an infected person in a setting with mostly uninfected people. And the most likely source of any contamination on a mask came from the wearer.

Between cloth masks and ppf3 there are also the blue surgical type masks.
We had limited supply of ppf3 type masks which of course are more effective.
It's not a binary ineffective v effective. It is a range of which some are more effective than others.
It made perfect sense recommending the other types of coverings to utilise their effectiveness as barriers.

If you want to argue we should be using more effective masks, go ahead.
If your argument is that last year we would have been better off without cloth and surgical masks as barriers then that's absolute nonsense without foundation.

To dress this up as 'anti science' is a big claim which you have completely failed to substantiate.

Irish Stones

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think I saw some people online who used surgical tape to secure the top of the mask under their eyes. Given you are wearing one for work that might be worth trying?

Yes, I saw some of them. It works well in the health care environment, when you don't need/want to pull it down frequently, but in other contexts, when a person is free to "take a breath" here and there, it can get a nuissance.

If all else fails, I know this isn't a cheap solution, but can you tolerate contacts \ do they work with your prescription?

My glasses are reading glasses, the kind you buy in nearly any shop for 15 euro. I find them useful for working at the PC, reading and doing small jobs. Thanks a lot for your suggestion and thought, though, really appreciated.

paw patrol

odyssey06 wrote: »

If you want to argue we should be using more effective masks, go ahead.

I did. I wouldn't argue for masks anyway but if you wanted to convince me it would need to be on the basis of a higher grade.

odyssey06 wrote: »

If your argument is that last year we would have been better off without cloth and surgical masks as barriers then that's absolute nonsense without foundation.

I admire your choice of words "better off" (which i didn't say) a beautiful discrete slide in there casual like,..

If you accused me of saying - we'd be no worse or no better off
then I'd say - yeah 100%

But again, you are suggesting something i never said - and I like it (really)
You almost caught me out - into defending a position I never took.
bravo!

odyssey06 wrote: »

To dress this up as 'anti science' is a big claim which you have completely failed to substantiate.

It's a message board - not the trinity debating society. It's a wasted endeavor spending time on detailed replies. In the past I have bothered to write replies and quoted documents only to be be met with glib one liners or disappearing acts.

case in point in this thread, your ally here unicorn latte - and his claim of cancer patients and the vaccine. When proven wrong , he just ignored the post. Why bother anyway , i'm not here to convert you.

On a final point
the 2 people I know who died from covid - were terminally ill and contracted covid in hospital - they were clear on entering. despite the masks and space suits and all that. odd that.

Unicorn Milk Latte

I posted a link to a scientific study - one of many - that observed, measured and confirmed the effectiveness of masks.

If you're unfamiliar - if you click, or, on mobile devices, tap - on one of these hyperlinks, they open an new webpage.


I haven't seen a single word or statement of fact that contradicts the study, or even hints at why it might be incorrect. Just innuendo.

Please, kindly, point out precisely what the incorrect points in the study are, why they are incorrect, complete with source links for the contradictory data.


You know - the common sense way to have a fact based discussion.

xhomelezz

paw patrol wrote: »

you both act like this covid vrius is some special virus and in the 6 months (march - summer 2020) the science just re-wrote itself completely a full 180degree turn. absolute anti science nonsense.
Masks are for show.

Might as well say it - I was right.




I think you need to read more.....or else redefine what "serious scientist" means.

But you did post here previously that cancer patients can't take the covid vaccine so maybe that's the level of your "science".
and ignore me when I proved you wrong.

I just pointed out, poster was posting over 1 year old email.

So what kind of virus is it?

Masks are for show...yeah right chief, great argument.