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The Jumpers are Coming 2020/2021

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    #602
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    akelly02 wrote: »
    moores are drooling over goshen running this weekend

    i hope he runs and this hype can end once and for all

    but the chances are he will not scope well and be pulled again , you heard it here first !!!

    Hopefully they are a little more upfront and honest than Mr. Henderson was last week, that's all we can ask for really.


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    #603
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    You can see where all the value has gone for punters also. 15 years ago both novice chases would have a heap of contenders. Now the 3 best ones get to pick which one they would like to run in, sure half the time they could be from the same yard.

    Most small trainers don't even bother, they are looking to get one thrown in at Stratford, they watch the rest on the tellly and don't have to deal with the crowds. They can take the barge back up to town after. Cute enough.

    You are contradicting yourself here again!

    Surely if the quality is diluted by having more races - not going to argue against that - then it offers the smaller trainer a greater chance at a piece of the pie?

    I am struggling to see the logic behind what you are saying?


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    #604
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    You are contradicting yourself here again!

    Surely if the quality is diluted by having more races - not going to argue against that - then it offers the smaller trainer a greater chance at a piece of the pie?

    I am struggling to see the logic behind what you are saying?

    Ah here I don't need a lesson in weighted averages.

    The fact is that there are less than 10 maybe 15 trainers that get the best horsies. We can fight over the scraps after that.

    That Marsh Plate is aptly named - The Plate. Nothing has ever come out of it.

    All the best novices go Arkle or RSA. The plate is for the yellow bellies afraid of taking the best ones on. I would say it is nearly harder to win a handicap at the Festival than the Plate. Joke of a race.

    Just Saying.


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    #605
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    Hopefully they are a little more upfront and honest than Mr. Henderson was last week, that's all we can ask for really.



    they assured us he would be running at ascot 2 weeks ago , then a no show,

    then didnt want to take on epatante


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    #606
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    akelly02 wrote: »
    they assured us he would be running at ascot 2 weeks ago , then a no show,

    then didnt want to take on epatante

    It was a little more than 2 weeks ago and Goshen was announced as a non runner on the Wednesday, not even comparable to whiskey nose telling all and sundry that the horse was never as well and was really looking forward to the race and was race fit!


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    #607
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    IAMAMORON wrote: »

    The fact is that there are less than 10 maybe 15 trainers that get the best horsies. We can fight over the scraps after that.


    Just Saying.

    And what has that got to do with there being three novice chases as opposed to two?

    You are all over the shop man, have you been at the drinks cabinet in seven barrows?

    Just asking.


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    #608
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    It was a little more than 2 weeks ago and Goshen was announced as a non runner on the Wednesday, not even comparable to whiskey nose telling all and sundry that the horse was never as well and was really looking forward to the race and was race fit!



    it makes no difference to me , just the sooner hes out and is bet , the sooner the hype will end

    i can guarantee you that horse will not achieve a quarter as much as sire de grugy, and the moores are saying this lad is way way better

    time will tell !


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    #609
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    akelly02 wrote: »
    it makes no difference to me , just the sooner hes out and is bet , the sooner the hype will end

    i can guarantee you that horse will not achieve a quarter as much as sire de grugy, and the moores are saying this lad is way way better

    time will tell !

    I am a believer and very much on the opposite side of the fence but yeah it will be great to find out, if he is a no show again this weekend then I would be extremely worried.

    I will add as well that I have zero faith in the Moore's and not sure they would know what to do with a good one.


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    #610
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    I am a believer and very much on the opposite side of the fence but yeah it will be great to find out, if he is a no show again this weekend then I would be extremely worried.

    I will add as well that I have zero faith in the Moore's and not sure they would know what to do with a good one.



    he is either a freak or bang average , there is no inbetween!!!!


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    #611
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    akelly02 wrote: »
    he is either a freak or bang average , there is no inbetween!!!!

    The ratings and times I have recorded for him suggests that he is a freak, but I have been wrong before.

    On my calculations he has the best juvenile ratings since Our Conor and only a length off Our Conor.

    But incredibly I have Elliot's juvenile from last weekend ahead of both which is frightening, I keep looking for a reason or a mistake in the distances, the railings, the ground etc. but still the only explanation I have is that Zanahiyr is an absolute monster.


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    #612
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    The ratings and times I have recorded for him suggests that he is a freak, but I have been wrong before.

    On my calculations he has the best juvenile ratings since Our Conor and only a length off Our Conor.

    But incredibly I have Elliot's juvenile from last weekend ahead of both which is frightening, I keep looking for a reason or a mistake in the distances, the railings, the ground etc. but still the only explanation I have is that Zanahiyr is an absolute monster.



    i dont look at times , even on same course , same ground etc

    grand crus completed the feltham something like 6 seconds faster than kauto star did in his king george. less than 2 hours later, same track, trip , ground ....enough said


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    #613
    Pogue eile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭Pogue eile


    akelly02 wrote: »
    i dont look at times , even on same course , same ground etc

    grand crus completed the feltham something like 6 seconds faster than kauto star did in his king george. less than 2 hours later, same track, trip , ground ....enough said

    I haven't compared those races, but it is a little more nuanced than comparing race times. And certainly the official race times can not be trusted.

    It was 2.8 secs on the official race times for Grand Crus v Kauto but as I say a very very big pinch of salt.

    The other big caution is of course some horses produce on off performances that they never quite reach again for many reasons. But I am telling you now, If I am even half right, then 5/1 for the Triumph is like finding money in the street!


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    #614
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Pogue eile wrote: »
    I haven't compared those races, but it is a little more nuanced than comparing race times. And certainly the official race times can not be trusted.

    It was 2.8 secs on the official race times for Grand Crus v Kauto but as I say a very very big pinch of salt.

    The other big caution is of course some horses produce on off performances that they never quite reach again for many reasons. But I am telling you now, If I am even half right, then 5/1 for the Triumph is like finding money in the street!



    it would be more believable for me that the triumph horse will win than goshen will tear apart a champion hurdle field


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    #615
    spuddiesal
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭spuddiesal


    Anniepowaa wrote: »
    the write up for shishkin and abacadabras is nearly word for word the same in the supreme and we all seen what aspire tower did to him , shishkin may be good but he is not the next altior

    Do you think Aspire Tower beats Abracadbras if they meet at xmas?


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    #616
    Anniepowaa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Anniepowaa


    spuddiesal wrote: »
    Do you think Aspire Tower beats Abracadbras if they meet at xmas?

    Without a doubt


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    #617
    spuddiesal
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭spuddiesal


    Anniepowaa wrote: »
    Without a doubt

    Is it that you think Abra is no good or Aspire tower is good?


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    #618
    hawaii501
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭hawaii501


    Can't wait to see Goshen out, hopefully runs this weekend. It won't be 10s anyway for the champ hurdle if it does run :)


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    #619
    PM me nudes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭PM me nudes


    No, he'll be 20s :pac:


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    #620
    Coneygree
    Registered Users Posts: 821 ✭✭✭Coneygree


    Goshen's jumping is still a huge question mark for me, it was why I had a line through him for the Triumph. Now he actually jumped well enough that day and 99 times out of 100 he doesn't catch his shoes together but he'd still need to smarten up a lot, beast of a horse or not.

    What’s Moore's angle with running him on the flat twice though? Once I can get on board with but to go again after bombing so bad was odd. It'd be some ****housery if he's got a monster and he's just looking to get a tastier price, saying that his price hasn't gotten much better at all.

    I'm desperately looking for something to appear and blow open the division though. Aba and Saint Roi I'm not so sure about as of now. Saldier could be anything but I'd like to bloody see him run.


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    #621
    The Hoarse Whisperer
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭The Hoarse Whisperer


    With Altior getting pulled at the weekend and I know the official reason was the ground but it got me thinking about the Champion Chase. So i asked about Shiskin in my local bookies today. So after a long spiel where the guy at the other end of the phone told the cashier to tell me that Shishkin is being groomed for the Arkle, is the short priced favourite there and I wont get my money back if he doesnt run in the CC eventually I get quoted 7 to 1. Seven to bloody one! He couldnt possibly run, could he?


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    #622
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    The Hoarse Whisperer wrote: »
    With Altior getting pulled at the weekend and I know the official reason was the ground but it got me thinking about the Champion Chase. So i asked about Shiskin in my local bookies today. So after a long spiel where the guy at the other end of the phone told the cashier to tell me that Shishkin is being groomed for the Arkle, is the short priced favourite there and I wont get my money back if he doesnt run in the CC eventually I get quoted 7 to 1. Seven to bloody one! He couldnt possibly run, could he?



    no.


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    #623
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    Coneygree wrote: »
    Goshen's jumping is still a huge question mark for me, it was why I had a line through him for the Triumph. Now he actually jumped well enough that day and 99 times out of 100 he doesn't catch his shoes together but he'd still need to smarten up a lot, beast of a horse or not.

    What’s Moore's angle with running him on the flat twice though? Once I can get on board with but to go again after bombing so bad was odd. It'd be some ****housery if he's got a monster and he's just looking to get a tastier price, saying that his price hasn't gotten much better at all.

    I'm desperately looking for something to appear and blow open the division though. Aba and Saint Roi I'm not so sure about as of now. Saldier could be anything but I'd like to bloody see him run.



    has epatante not blown open the division?


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    #624
    RivetingRoger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭RivetingRoger


    Abacadabras is second only to Epatante in this division
    Aspire Tower, Saint Roi etc will NOT beat him up the hill in March
    It will not happen
    Aba, if they get him right for it is the only CH horse with a prayer of beating the mare
    The form with Envoi and Shishkin is rock solid
    None of the rest of them have anything like it in their repertoire


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    #625
    Anniepowaa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭Anniepowaa


    RivetingRoger wrote: »
    Abacadabras is second only to Epatante in this division
    Aspire Tower, Saint Roi etc will NOT beat him up the hill in March
    It will not happen
    Aba, if they get him right for it is the only CH horse with a prayer of beating the mare
    The form with Envoi and Shishkin is rock solid
    None of the rest of them have anything like it in their repertoire

    ohh for god sake saint roi would have beat him the other day if not for everything under the sun going wrong


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    #626
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    goshen 5/2 is surely a gift from heaven with all the followers he has??

    surely a machine like this should be 4/7 or thereabouts?

    ill have sceau royale anyway . we will get a good line on the form with him, you can set your clock by him these days.


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    #627
    RivetingRoger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭RivetingRoger


    Anniepowaa wrote: »
    ohh for god sake saint roi would have beat him the other day if not for everything under the sun going wrong

    Are you still here..............:rolleyes:


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    #628
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    RivetingRoger wrote: »
    Are you still here..............:rolleyes:



    roger he does have a point....run that race another 10 times and saint roi wins most of them id say


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    #629
    RivetingRoger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭RivetingRoger


    akelly02 wrote: »
    roger he does have a point....run that race another 10 times and saint roi wins most of them id say

    Dunno how anyone see's that
    The race wasn't run to suit either of them, one coped, the other didn't
    Read what EOL said about the race in the RP, race went completely against the plan for Abacadabras
    Everyone cribbed that he couldn't/wouldn't win a battle if another horse got up to him, but he did!
    Abacadabras is a top class horse who will prove so in years to come. His form with Envoi Allan and Shishkin is in the book, its there for all to see.

    What has Saint Roi done??? Won a feckin County Hurdle!!!
    People getting way too excited about a horse who has done very little to warrant the hype and people cribbing the horse who has been there and done it

    Regardless, Epatante beats both


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    #630
    akelly02
    Registered Users Posts: 3,133 ✭✭✭akelly02


    RivetingRoger wrote: »
    Dunno how anyone see's that
    The race wasn't run to suit either of them, one coped, the other didn't
    Read what EOL said about the race in the RP, race went completely against the plan for Abacadabras
    Everyone cribbed that he couldn't/wouldn't win a battle if another horse got up to him, but he did!
    Abacadabras is a top class horse who will prove so in years to come. His form with Envoi Allan and Shishkin is in the book, its there for all to see.

    What has Saint Roi done??? Won a feckin County Hurdle!!!
    People getting way too excited about a horse who has done very little to warrant the hype and people cribbing the horse who has been there and done it

    Regardless, Epatante beats both


    roger

    i dont know what race you were looking at, but aba was looking for ways to lose that race , he had a definate advantage at the last, cour sublime was his nearest challenger, and he was clinging on at the end!!

    pulling himself up once hitting the front is not a good trait for a champion hurdle horse


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    #631
    Brock Turnpike
    Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    RivetingRoger wrote: »
    Abacadabras is second only to Epatante in this division
    Aspire Tower, Saint Roi etc will NOT beat him up the hill in March
    It will not happen
    Aba, if they get him right for it is the only CH horse with a prayer of beating the mare
    The form with Envoi and Shishkin is rock solid
    None of the rest of them have anything like it in their repertoire

    I think you are dismissing Aspire Tower a bit too easily. If he jumps well on the day, he's in with a chance.


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