The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, you are being politically naive. Effective opposition works.
The only thing you are correct about is it is not the same as being in power.

Exactly - so shouldn't the biggest party in Ireland be making an effort to get into government? SF didn't even put together a framework. Sat on their hands and complained.

What way have SF been effective in opposition? There are no more houses built....

Hqrry113

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cool story, Bro.

That’s why the PIRA ended up killing more Catholics during the troubles than anyone else, and almost more than the rest of the scumbags up there put together.

The IRA were responsible for about 25-30 percent of civilian deaths during the troubles so I don't see how your point has any value or truth.

a very cool kid

Hqrry113 wrote: »

The IRA were responsible for about 25-30 percent of civilian deaths during the troubles so I don't see how your point has any value or truth.

I'm sure those civilian deaths' families took great solace from that statistic

Hqrry113

Creol1 wrote: »

Perhaps not, but I'm sure the parents of the children killed in Warrington and the families of those killed in Kingsmills, Enniskillen and La Mon would.

Same could be said for any army, guerrilla army in the world civilians are killed by every side in every conflict, people claiming that the IRA were particularly bad makes no sense.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

Exactly - so shouldn't the biggest party in Ireland be making an effort to get into government? SF didn't even put together a framework. Sat on their hands and complained.

What way have SF been effective in opposition? There are no more houses built....

I just outlined a few instances above.

You are either feigning naivety and pretending that governments don't respond to properly applied pressure. They have in those instances.

Suckit

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cool story, Bro.

That’s why the PIRA ended up killing more Catholics during the troubles than anyone else, and almost more than the rest of the scumbags up there put together.

Didn't realise we could spew out randomly generated BS and claim it to be true.

Hqrry113

Creol1 wrote: »

Perhaps not, but I'm sure the parents of the children killed in Warrington and the families of those killed in Kingsmills, Enniskillen and La Mon would.

In relation to Kingsmill Alan Black a protestant, the only survivor of Kingsmill, believes that IRA members involved in the massacre were double agents working for the British state. He believes there was a "cover up" and that British security forces knew the massacre was going to happen but allowed it to. Karen Armstrong, sister of victim John McConville, said: "A lot of people were being protected back then and they still are".It has been suggested that the gunman with the English accent could have been British Intelligence officer Robert Nairac.

John Weir, a former RUC officer and member of the "Glenanne gang", claims he discovered that British Intelligence, through Nairac, was "playing republican and loyalist paramilitaries off against each other to draw the IRA away from it's war against the state and it's main political goals".

In an August 1975 letter to Tony Stoughton, chief of the British Army Information Service in Northern Ireland, Wallace writes:

There is good evidence the Dublin bombings in May last year were a reprisal for the Irish government's role in bringing about the [power sharing] Executive. According to one of Craig's people [Craig Smellie, the top MI6 officer in Northern Ireland], some of those involved – the Youngs, the Jacksons, Mulholland, Hanna, Kerr and McConnell – were working closely with [Special Branch] and [Military Intelligence] at that time. Craig's people believe the sectarian assassinations were designed to destroy Rees's attempts to negotiate a ceasefire, and the targets were identified for both sides by [Intelligence/Special Branch]. They also believe some very senior RUC officers were involved with this group. In short, it would appear that loyalist paramilitaries and [Intelligence/Special Branch] members have formed some sort of pseudo gangs in an attempt to fight a war of attrition against the IRA by getting paramilitaries on both sides to kill each other.


In a further letter of September 1975, Wallace wrote that MI5 was backing a group of UVF hardliners who opposed the UVF's move toward politics. He added:

I believe much of the violence generated during the latter part of last year was caused by some of the new [Intelligence] people deliberately stirring up the conflict. As you know, we have never been allowed to target the breakaway UVF, nor the UFF, during the past year. Yet they have killed more people than the IRA!

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, you are being politically naive. Effective opposition works.
The only thing you are correct about is it is not the same as being in power.

Ya, right. Effective opposition leaving vital meetings less than half way through.

FrancieBrady

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ya, right. Effective opposition leaving vital meetings less than half way through.

The bitterness in that post is high.

You guys know it is not the old days anymore. Any government, whether it be FG FF or SF will not get away with tge excesses and abuses of the past. How many members are you down since the formation of the latest government now? How many cockups have been highlighted?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The bitterness in that post is high.

You guys know it is not the old days anymore. Any government, whether it be FG FF or SF will not get away with tge excesses and abuses of the past. How many members are you down since the formation of the latest government now? How many cockups have been highlighted?

Nor should the supposed leader of the opposition be let get away with walking out of a meeting that was dealing with the greatest crisis of our generation.

Weepsie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The bitterness in that post is high.

You guys know it is not the old days anymore. Any government, whether it be FG FF or SF will not get away with tge excesses and abuses of the past. How many members are you down since the formation of the latest government now? How many cockups have been highlighted?

You forgot slaughterings of the past there too

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Nor should the supposed leader of the opposition be let get away with walking out of a meeting that was dealing with the greatest crisis of our generation.

Some body leaves a meeting early is the same as the excesses and abuses of past governments here?

You are really stretching.

Effective opposition works. It pressures and calls government to account. Simon Harris's lack of ability in Health in the last government brought it down because opposition parties called him to account.

You may not like it (and your bitterness is evident) but that is how the cookie crumbles now.

FrancieBrady

Weepsie wrote: »

You forgot slaughterings of the past there too

Yes, thankfully they are all in the past too.

Truthvader

Hqrry113 wrote: »

It seems in the early days of the troubles the PIRA were the only ones who would defend the people in the north, The battle of St Matthew's was the Provisional IRA's first major action during the Troubles, and a propaganda victory for the Irish nationalist organization.
Violence erupted at St Matthew's Catholic church on the evening of 27 June. It began after a loyalist band and supporters marched through the area on their return from the main parade. Rival groups gathered, taunting led to stone-throwing, and eventually shots were fired.[13]

As the situation worsened, Catholic residents feared that the gathering crowds of loyalists would attempt to invade the Short Strand and burn them from their homes. Local IRA members retrieved weapons from arms dumps. A young resident, Jim Gibney, recalled: "I saw neighbours, people I knew, coming down the street carrying rifles. I was just dumbstruck by this experience. I'd never seen such a thing before".

The battle began at about 10pm and would continue for the next five hours.

A small group of IRA members and members of the Citizens' Defence Committee[1][5] took up positions in the church grounds and in adjoining streets. The IRA members were armed with M1 carbines.

Shortly after the shooting began, Stormont MP
SDLP Paddy Kennedy went with Short Strand residents to the local RUC base and demanded protection for their homes, while the SDLP were running to the RUC on their knees begging for protection that never came, in the Markets IRA members assembled and prepared to reinforce the Short Strand should it be invaded. British soldiers eventually arrived in armoured vehicles and cordoned off the roads around the Short Strand, which denied the IRA "any hope of reinforcement".

I doubt the people living in the area shaking in their homes terrified with their at the time regard the young men who died defending them as terrorists.

Clearly a necessary defence of unfortunate people under attack from mental bigots. More the pity that the likes of Gerry Adams perverted such noble beginings and the IRA were reduced to a sick criminal organisation murdering random people, parasitically feeding off protection rackets and mutilating the children they were meant protect in punishment beatings

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I just outlined a few instances above.

You are either feigning naivety and pretending that governments don't respond to properly applied pressure. They have in those instances.

You voted for them to bring change and they let you and all those voters down. No shame in admitting it as a first time SF voter.

Don't be the butcher's boy all your life

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

You voted for them to bring change and they let you and all those voters down. No shame in admitting it as a first time SF voter.

Don't be the butcher's boy all your life

They forced FG and FF to merge - the final bastion of the power swap. Check the forum, I siad it at the time that that was one of the best outcomes of the election for me.

Change was never going to happen overnight. I don't care anymore which of them decline as long as one of them does. And it looks so far it is FF.
Bring it on, the power swap is over.

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They forced FG and FF to merge - the final bastion of the power swap. Check the forum, I siad it at the time that that was one of the best outcomes of the election for me.

Change was never going to happen overnight. I don't care anymore which of them decline as long as one of them does. And it looks so far it is FF.
Bring it on, the power swap is over.

You think they've merged? Is that why Leo's boys are trying to undermine Martin at every turn, someone should have told him they were a merged entity..

Neither are going to decline out of existence, SF are blowing their chance I'm afraid. The party that only ran 39 candidates was never going to bring change. They've taken your vote and used it as a ticket to the trough.

You're right though that change takes time but you have to driving the bus to bring it in a different direction.

They've let you down, no other way about it

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

You think they've merged? Is that why Leo's boys are trying to undermine Martin at every turn, someone should have told him they were a merged entity..

Winner takes all. Leo is no fool whatever else he might be.

Neither are going to decline out of existence, SF are blowing their chance I'm afraid. The party that only ran 39 candidates was never going to bring change. They've taken your vote and used it as a ticket to the trough.

You're right though that change takes time but you have to driving the bus to bring it in a different direction.

They've let you down, no other way about it

I voted knowing SF would mount a challenge. They did. Neither FG nor FF could set it up to suit themselves, they had to do what they have never done before coalesce/merge call it what you want, after having to have a C&S arrangement in the previous government.

Your nonsense about 'no change' is just that - nonsense. Politics is radically changed in this country, seen in the inordinate amount of time it took to even form a government and the chaos there has been since.

StackSteevens

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FF and FG are all too happy to see the poor cervical check scandal ladies go through hell to get justice even after admitting the state failed them. Scumbags

In grown-up speak what this means is that Sinn Fein's magic money brigade wants the Irish taxpayer to sign a blank cheque to pay the compensation due to the victims by the labs that failed to read the samples correctly.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Does the IMC finding not confirm that thy have gone away. They were not involved as an organisation.

So has the IRA moved from an organisation that existed challenging states: murder intimidation, robbery and terror in the North and South; murder and terror in Britain to a gangster mafia group.

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Winner takes all. Leo is no fool whatever else he might be.



I voted knowing SF would mount a challenge. They did. Neither FG nor FF could set it up to suit themselves, they had to do what they have never done before coalesce/merge call it what you want, after having to have a C&S arrangement in the previous government.

Your nonsense about 'no change' is just that - nonsense. Politics is radically changed in this country, seen in the inordinate amount of time it took to even form a government and the chaos there has been since.

Either way, Sinn Féin have wasted your vote. They've done or will do nothing at all to improve your life

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

So has the IRA moved from an organisation that existed challenging states: murder intimidation, robbery and terror in the North and South; murder and terror in Britain to a gangster mafia group.

Look you can google the report as easily as I can

In that report, a number of definitive statements were made about the IRA including that its structures remained “in a much reduced form”, that it is not actively recruiting and that its leadership is committed to achieving a united Ireland through peaceful means.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

Either way, Sinn Féin have wasted your vote. They've done or will do nothing at all to improve your life

I said earlier I am very happy that we now have an effective opposition.

My vote is never wasted btw, whatever happens or whoever I vote for and I have at one time or another voted for most parties. Nobody, including SF, owns my vote.

imme

a very cool kid wrote: »

Either way, Sinn Féin have wasted your vote. They've done or will do nothing at all to improve your life

They've been doing the same for anyone voting for a Member of Westminster Parliament for the last 35 years.

But of course all SF fans will repeat the mantra that everyone knows that the people they elect for SF to Westminster will never take their seats, they will however take the pay and privileges offices and attendant staffing, che-ching!

Can you get full value from an MP that's never going to vote for anything.

a very cool kid

imme wrote: »

They've been doing the same for anyone voting for a Member of Westminster Parliament for the last 35 years.

But of course all SF fans will repeat the mantra that everyone knows that the people they elect for SF to Westminster will never take their seats, they will however take the pay and privileges offices and attendant staffing, che-ching!

Can you get full value from an MP that's never going to vote for anything.

Ah it's OK they have "pressure"

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said earlier I am very happy that we now have an effective opposition.

My vote is never wasted btw, whatever happens or whoever I vote for and I have at one time or another voted for most parties. Nobody, including SF, owns my vote.

You remind me of the Brexiteers doubling down on their bad decision

JohnnyFlash

I see the Gardaí arrived en-masse to an anti-lockdown protest this afternoon and arrested 11 protestors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/at-least-11-arrests-at-anti-lockdown-protest-in-dublin-garda%C3%AD-say-1.4388742

Fine work by Drew Harris and the top brass in the Gardaí to finally knock this sort of anti-establishment horseshít on the head.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

You remind me of the Brexiteers doubling down on their bad decision

You guys just put back in the two parties who were in C&S in the last set-up and I remind you of a Brexiteer???

I was right about your naivety expect it doesn't seem to just affect your political thoughts.

Suckit

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I see the Gardaí arrived en-masse to an anti-lockdown protest this afternoon and arrested 11 protestors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/at-least-11-arrests-at-anti-lockdown-protest-in-dublin-garda%C3%AD-say-1.4388742

Fine work by Drew Harris and the top brass in the Gardaí to finally knock this sort of anti-establishment horseshít on the head.

What has that crap got to do with this thread? Or you going to make up more 'statistics'?

imme

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I see the Gardaí arrived en-masse to an anti-lockdown protest this afternoon and arrested 11 protestors.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/at-least-11-arrests-at-anti-lockdown-protest-in-dublin-garda%C3%AD-say-1.4388742

Fine work by Drew Harris and the top brass in the Gardaí to finally knock this sort of anti-establishment horseshít on the head.

Is this a comment on Sinn Fein.