Dundrum Main St one way

AndrewJRenko

punisher5112 wrote: »

What parked cars?

Car parking wasn't an issue only when illegally done so and blocking bus stop which hasn't changed.

One side of the village was a constant line of parked cars. The other side had a steady quota of cars and vans, half on the path, half on the road, just for a few minutes of course.

So a bus coming one direction rarely had a clear run, and would have to give way and wait for a gap to get through.

Now the parked cars are all nicely tucked in. And with fewer cars crawling through the village, they'll be using less fuel when they take the bypass.

But it's great to see so many people suddenly taking an interest in fuel emissions. If only there was some mode of transport that didn't involve emissions that we could be promoting and facilitating?

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm getting your point. I'm just not seeing it matched by what's happening in the real world. How many examples of accurate RTPI would it take for you to accept that it's working fairly well?

RTPI is more a rough guide as to how far away your bus is not really highly accurate. Better to look at live GPS positions of buses on the TFI app. It's useful sometimes but I wouldn't rely on it during peak time or schools traffic.

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

But it's great to see so many people suddenly taking an interest in fuel emissions. If only there was some mode of transport that didn't involve emissions that we could be promoting and facilitating?

I'm all for all methods of sustainable transport just not when one hinders the other

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm getting your point. I'm just not seeing it matched by what's happening in the real world. How many examples of accurate RTPI would it take for you to accept that it's working fairly well?

Can I ask a simple question?

Do you actually use the 14 bus?

punisher5112

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

One side of the village was a constant line of parked cars. The other side had a steady quota of cars and vans, half on the path, half on the road, just for a few minutes of course.

So a bus coming one direction rarely had a clear run, and would have to give way and wait for a gap to get through.

Now the parked cars are all nicely tucked in. And with fewer cars crawling through the village, they'll be using less fuel when they take the bypass.

But it's great to see so many people suddenly taking an interest in fuel emissions. If only there was some mode of transport that didn't involve emissions that we could be promoting and facilitating?

That didn't cause the bus to be 15 minutes longer though and to be honest was nothing to worrying for us, there is much worse place to be honest, the worst spot actually was the 2 spots outside the AIB and the tile van that parked daily and all night just after that usually in the loading bay, was always amazed the mirror was never taken out of it but yet mine turned in on a small car would be creamed out of it....

Oh and I wouldn't go as far as saying nicely ticked in, many can't park to save their lives and people will park literally anywhere, also still see many driving up.the wrong way.

fullstop

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I came through it from Churchtown around 5.30pm. There were zero vehicles queuing to turn right up the bypass.

Right, and I come through the junction every weekday morning between 7:30 and 8, and have been for the past 8 or 9 years, and there’s always a queue.

Even now with the reduced traffic volumes it’s an issue. If and when we get back to the volumes from the start of the year it’s a big issue.

dublinman1990

Re: New traffic lights on Dundrum Main St.

They have these new traffic lights built near UCD Smurfit Business College/Covent Road crossing in Carysfort Avenue. They look great.

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think you’re possibly confused with another madcap idea.

They’re planning and consulting on making Deans Grange Road one way southbound between Brookville Road and Deangrange Cross, thus requiring the 84 and 84a towards Blackrock to divert via Kill Lane, Abbey Road and the unnamed link road.

Not good for bus users (again).

GT89 wrote: »

Well if that's the case it won't just have effect on the 84/a but also cause potential traffic backlogs causing delays to routes 4, 7b, 7d, 46a, 63 and 75 due to the traffic on Deansgrange Road being diverted to Abbey Road and Kill Lane it's utter madness. Why does it always have to be improve cycling and walking infrastructure at the expense of public transport when really the two should work in tandem.

Where are the full plans for this proposal? TIA.

AndrewJRenko

fullstop wrote: »

Right, and I come through the junction every weekday morning between 7:30 and 8, and have been for the past 8 or 9 years, and there’s always a queue.

Even now with the reduced traffic volumes it’s an issue. If and when we get back to the volumes from the start of the year it’s a big issue.

So there has always been a queue - good to get that confirmed. So tell me again what problem the new arrangement has caused?

AndrewJRenko

LXFlyer wrote: »

Can I ask a simple question?

Do you actually use the 14 bus?

Pre lockdown - yes, maybe twice a month for the full commute in/out of town, and another couple of trips between Dundrum and Ballinteer.

Since lockdown, it has been less.

So yes, I use the buses, I use the Luas, I cycle and I drive.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

I'm all for all methods of sustainable transport just not when one hinders the other

I'm all for social housing, but not around here. I'm all for refugees, but not around here.

Private car traffic has been hindering others for a generation. When you've enjoyed privileges like this for so long, removing them can seem like an attack, but it is really just a small rebalancing back towards where things should have been done in the first place.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

RTPI is more a rough guide as to how far away your bus is not really highly accurate. Better to look at live GPS positions of buses on the TFI app. It's useful sometimes but I wouldn't rely on it during peak time or schools traffic.

We're losing sight of the main issue. The claim was made that passengers can't use RTPI to plan their arrival at the bus stop since the changes were made. I've presented anecdotal evidence that this is untrue.

I can continue to present further examples, with timestamped video evidence, if that's what is required to convince the naysayers.

Drifter50

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm all for social housing, but not around here. I'm all for refugees, but not around here.

Private car traffic has been hindering others for a generation. When you've enjoyed privileges like this for so long, removing them can seem like an attack, but it is really just a small rebalancing back towards where things should have been done in the first place.

How is private car traffic a privilege. If you don`t want to be a private car user, then don`t
Simple as
But don`t moan at others who maybe do not have the options and see it as a necessity

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We're losing sight of the main issue. The claim was made that passengers can't use RTPI to plan their arrival at the bus stop since the changes were made. I've presented anecdotal evidence that this is untrue.

I can continue to present further examples, with timestamped video evidence, if that's what is required to convince the naysayers.

No that is not the main issue. You are focussing far too much on RTPI.

You are missing the point, that if you are boarding a bus from any stop within 10 minutes of the terminus, for most people they will need to be on the move already from their home no later than the time the bus is going to leave the terminus, as on average most people will need to walk 5-6 minutes to their nearest stop. In other words, they look at the timetable.

If the bus happens to get delayed, it is going to happen while that person is already walking to the stop, as the bus *could* take the minimum time, or it could take longer if delayed.

The problem is that those delays have been happening quite randomly and by the time you get to the stop and look at the RTPI the bus is stuck already, and you have to wait.

That's my point on the usefulness of RTPI close to the terminus. It displays scheduled times until the bus is moving, by which time passengers at those stops have to be on the move themselves to make sure they get the bus.

My actual point was that for a route where buses rarely if ever got delayed at the start of the journey, and took about 6-8 minutes to get to Ballinteer, buses have been randomly taking between 10 and 24 minutes on occasion since these measures were implemented.

And how I know that is because I have used the 14 pretty much every day for 15 years, rather than you do as an infrequent user, and I tend to watch what is going on rather keenly.

I started observing how random the buses were arriving in terms of time taken from the terminus, compared to normal.

Getting frustrated, I then sat down and monitored the service for a complete day at my local stop, versus the AVLC timings and the times varied over the course of the day, and that is why I am saying that there is an issue - it now takes longer at times during the day than it did before, and it can take significantly longer due to being stuck at lights or in schools traffic that it never had to deal with before.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Though the return journeys on the other end will be quicker given that buses won't constantly be blocked by parked cars, so it will all come out in the wash.

That is a bit of red herring though, it is at the very end of the route when it won't impact on users, and all that will happen is that the layover time at the terminus will be extended.

There is a pretty obvious solution to the problem that will solve the reliability issues and restore the choice of service.

LXFlyer

A case in point:
The 08:45 departure before these changes would have been in Ballinteer in 6 minutes, by 08:51

The current AVLC times suggest a journey time of 11 minutes.

It actually took 15 minutes, showing up at 09:00.

Nine of those minutes were spent between the terminus and the first stop on Ballinteer Road.

How is that in any shape or form a positive development?

punisher5112

Its so unpredictable and each day is different and times too, school times you may as well throw it out the window.....

To be honest I can see the need where buses will or should be set along the route further on to try and keep to some sort of schedule. Wishful thinking maybe but what is done is the biggest waste of tax payers money.... Council states it is losing money hand over fist and doesn't have enough money but yet can do this and other crazy amendment for the worse may I add and also build a library for close to 45 million, seriously this council and the representative in charge are nuts.

AndrewJRenko

Drifter50 wrote: »

How is private car traffic a privilege. If you don`t want to be a private car user, then don`t
Simple as

Do you really need it spelled out for you?

Not everyone can afford to buy a car. Not everyone has space to store a car. Not everyone can afford to tax, insure and maintain a car.

Not everyone can find it in their heart to continue to pump out toxic fumes on their community.

fullstop

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So there has always been a queue - good to get that confirmed. So tell me again what problem the new arrangement has caused?

Are you deliberately not getting this?

Assuming you aren’t, I’ll explain it one more time. Read slowly.

With the previous light sequence, the queues from Churchtown and Windy Arbour always got through on 1 turn of the lights because of the consecutive greens at the 2 sets of lights. Now it takes 2 turns of the lights to get that traffic through, with currently reduced traffic volumes, which will get a lot worse in future if we get back to previous traffic volumes. This is due to the lack of consecutive green lights as well as the removal of one lane between the junctions.

Clear yet?

fullstop

LXFlyer wrote: »

A case in point:
The 08:45 departure before these changes would have been in Ballinteer in 6 minutes, by 08:51

The current AVLC times suggest a journey time of 11 minutes.

It actually took 15 minutes, showing up at 09:00.

Nine of those minutes were spent between the terminus and the first stop on Ballinteer Road.

How is that in any shape or form a positive development?

But he did a spot check. And that sample set of one was conclusive and robust enough to back up his own opinion :pac:

punisher5112

The north bound section if you look at it under the luas bridge has now 4 lanes and 1 the side heading into Dundrum/bypass.... That's pure madness.

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm all for social housing, but not around here. I'm all for refugees, but not around here.

Private car traffic has been hindering others for a generation. When you've enjoyed privileges like this for so long, removing them can seem like an attack, but it is really just a small rebalancing back towards where things should have been done in the first place.

That's not my point what I am saying is I am all for sustainable transport ie. walking, cycling, public transport. What I'm against is where one mode of sustainable transport hinder another mode of sustainable transport which is happening in this instant as one method of sustainable transport in this istant walking and cycling is hindering public transport.

punisher5112

Sure if it were such a serious measure to get in because of covid why wasn't the main Street coned off within the 1st few weeks....

Public transport should be effective, efficient and fast..... Its none of those 3.

Seaswimmer

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Re: New traffic lights on Dundrum Main St.

They have these new traffic lights built near UCD Smurfit Business College/Covent Road crossing in Carysfort Avenue. They look great.





Where are the full plans for this proposal? TIA.

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/activeschooltravel_faqs_a4.pdf

AndrewJRenko

fullstop wrote: »

But he did a spot check. And that sample set of one was conclusive and robust enough to back up his own opinion :pac:

Yes, he did a spot check. And because he was aware that a sample size of one was inconclusive and not robust, he offered to do further spot checks and present supporting video evidence. How many spot checks would it take to convince you?

punisher5112 wrote: »

The north bound section if you look at it under the luas bridge has now 4 lanes and 1 the side heading into Dundrum/bypass.... That's pure madness.

Can you please clarify what specific problems results from this 'madness'?

fullstop wrote: »

Are you deliberately not getting this?

Assuming you aren’t, I’ll explain it one more time. Read slowly.

With the previous light sequence, the queues from Churchtown and Windy Arbour always got through on 1 turn of the lights because of the consecutive greens at the 2 sets of lights. Now it takes 2 turns of the lights to get that traffic through, with currently reduced traffic volumes, which will get a lot worse in future if we get back to previous traffic volumes. This is due to the lack of consecutive green lights as well as the removal of one lane between the junctions.

Clear yet?

When I passed by shortly after 8am the queue from Churchtown was precisely one tow truck. It looks like there were two vehicles waiting to turn right from Windy Arbour. There was no traffic queuing on the merged section outside the gym.

https://streamable.com/crtcrk

So again I'm asking - what particular problems are people talking about at this junction?

Tarabuses

Tarabuses wrote: »

So it is of no benefit to anyone.

LXFlyer wrote: »

Well it reduces traffic levels through those crossroads, supposedly, which is what DLRCoCo say that they are trying to achieve.

That may be what they were trying to achieve but how has it been of benefit? I can think of many for whom it has been a hindrence.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

That's not my point what I am saying is I am all for sustainable transport ie. walking, cycling, public transport. What I'm against is where one mode of sustainable transport hinder another mode of sustainable transport which is happening in this instant as one method of sustainable transport in this istant walking and cycling is hindering public transport.

It's really not. The extent or impact of the hindering is relatively trivial.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sure if it were such a serious measure to get in because of covid why wasn't the main Street coned off within the 1st few weeks....

Ask the NTA how long it took them to provide funding. This kind of change couldn't have been safely achieved with cones.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Its so unpredictable and each day is different and times too, school times you may as well throw it out the window.....

To be honest I can see the need where buses will or should be set along the route further on to try and keep to some sort of schedule. Wishful thinking maybe but what is done is the biggest waste of tax payers money.... Council states it is losing money hand over fist and doesn't have enough money but yet can do this and other crazy amendment for the worse may I add and also build a library for close to 45 million, seriously this council and the representative in charge are nuts.

I think the library was €36m, but sure let's not let €9 million get between friends. Any thoughts on the €30 million spend on roads in the DLR budget for this year? Let me guess, everyone thinks that's money well spent and should be increased, while a drop in the ocean spent on cycling, funded by the NTA (so no actual impact on DLR budget) is an outrage, right?

Could you explain again what problem would be solved by setting extra buses further along the route, given that stops along have a steady flow of 14s arriving in, just like they always had, with some variations for traffic flow. It wasn't unusual or impossible to see two 14s trailing each other in Rathmines before this change, so what actual problem do we need to solve here?

LXFlyer wrote: »

A case in point:
The 08:45 departure before these changes would have been in Ballinteer in 6 minutes, by 08:51

The current AVLC times suggest a journey time of 11 minutes.

It actually took 15 minutes, showing up at 09:00.

Nine of those minutes were spent between the terminus and the first stop on Ballinteer Road.

How is that in any shape or form a positive development?

Great example. Are you seriously suggesting that a hugely beneficial development like this shouldn't go ahead because of a four minute variation in arrival times, which would have been visible on RTPI anyway?

Mountains and molehills spring to mind.

LXFlyer wrote: »

No that is not the main issue. You are focussing far too much on RTPI.

You are missing the point, that if you are boarding a bus from any stop within 10 minutes of the terminus, for most people they will need to be on the move already from their home no later than the time the bus is going to leave the terminus, as on average most people will need to walk 5-6 minutes to their nearest stop. In other words, they look at the timetable.

If the bus happens to get delayed, it is going to happen while that person is already walking to the stop, as the bus *could* take the minimum time, or it could take longer if delayed.

The problem is that those delays have been happening quite randomly and by the time you get to the stop and look at the RTPI the bus is stuck already, and you have to wait.

That's my point on the usefulness of RTPI close to the terminus. It displays scheduled times until the bus is moving, by which time passengers at those stops have to be on the move themselves to make sure they get the bus.

My actual point was that for a route where buses rarely if ever got delayed at the start of the journey, and took about 6-8 minutes to get to Ballinteer, buses have been randomly taking between 10 and 24 minutes on occasion since these measures were implemented.

And how I know that is because I have used the 14 pretty much every day for 15 years, rather than you do as an infrequent user, and I tend to watch what is going on rather keenly.

I started observing how random the buses were arriving in terms of time taken from the terminus, compared to normal.

Getting frustrated, I then sat down and monitored the service for a complete day at my local stop, versus the AVLC timings and the times varied over the course of the day, and that is why I am saying that there is an issue - it now takes longer at times during the day than it did before, and it can take significantly longer due to being stuck at lights or in schools traffic that it never had to deal with before.

That is a bit of red herring though, it is at the very end of the route when it won't impact on users, and all that will happen is that the layover time at the terminus will be extended.

There is a pretty obvious solution to the problem that will solve the reliability issues and restore the choice of service.

So if you're going to be using the service every day, you're going to get used to the revised timings again fairly soon, and be able to plan your journeys accordingly.

punisher5112

You just want us all on pedal cycles don't you.....

I actually was only thinking earlier how long I've worked and contributed to society etc etc.... 21 years, I had to move 2 full counties away to be able to afford a house and also now have to commute 2 counties to work.....

AndrewJRenko

punisher5112 wrote: »

That didn't cause the bus to be 15 minutes longer though and to be honest was nothing to worrying for us, there is much worse place to be honest, the worst spot actually was the 2 spots outside the AIB and the tile van that parked daily and all night just after that usually in the loading bay, was always amazed the mirror was never taken out of it but yet mine turned in on a small car would be creamed out of it....

Oh and I wouldn't go as far as saying nicely ticked in, many can't park to save their lives and people will park literally anywhere, also still see many driving up.the wrong way.

The Irish Tiling van broke my heart. I chased DLR parking for months trying to get them to do something about the lads blocking the loading bay. I hassled the company, who told me they 'had a permit' to park there - utter BS. I called the Gardai a few times when they blocked the pedestrian crossing, but I doubt if they did anything much about it.

You're right that 'tucked in' might be a little optimistic, but there are certainly fewer opportunities for fly parking in the new layout, because you know motorists would never think of blocking another driver, but will casually block a footpath or cycle lane without a second thought.

punisher5112 wrote: »

You just want us all on pedal cycles don't you.....

Not all, but I do want the kind of people who will cycle in other countries when safe cycling facilities are provided to be on their bikes for their mostly short journeys.

And guess what- the more of them that cycle, the less of them that drive, so the more space that will be left on the road for the remaining drivers.

Is it really that unreasonable to provide a very small amount of road space, a drop in the ocean in the context of the overall road space in the county for cyclists, to encourage more people to cycle?

punisher5112 wrote: »

I actually was only thinking earlier how long I've worked and contributed to society etc etc.... 21 years, I had to move 2 full counties away to be able to afford a house and also now have to commute 2 counties to work.....

Congrats on the house, though I'm not quite seeing the relevance to this discussion.

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

IGreat example. Are you seriously suggesting that a hugely beneficial development like this shouldn't go ahead because of a four minute variation in arrival times, which would have been visible on RTPI anyway?

Mountains and molehills spring to mind.



So if you're going to be using the service every day, you're going to get used to the revised timings again fairly soon, and be able to plan your journeys accordingly.

You are either being deliberately obtuse, or, as I am suspecting, you just don't care about anyone else who could be affected negatively.

The delay happened after I would have to have to left the house to get to the stop - how the hell could I tell if the bus was going to move sooner or not? RTPI cannot tell you that if the bus will be or is stuck in traffic. It would have kept saying it was due in the same number of minutes. Am I supposed to keep looking at my phone and walk back home and go for a sit down until it does move, by which time I'd have to run to the stop?

The longer journey time from Dundrum - that bus took 9 minutes longer than before these "improvements", and the risk that the bus can get delayed (which is not predictable) and take even longer is the problem, which has basically resulted in me having to get the previous bus to the one I'd normally get to make sure that I am in work in time.

That means that I'm having to leave my home each day 10-15 minutes earlier than before, and I am losing 50-60 minutes of my own time a week as a result.

That is what I am annoyed about.

So no you'll forgive me if I don't particularly get used to that.

Frankly, I am not going to bother continuing to discuss this with you. When you start telling someone to "get used to it", you've lost your argument I'm afraid.

fullstop

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yes, he did a spot check. And because he was aware that a sample size of one was inconclusive and not robust, he offered to do further spot checks and present supporting video evidence. How many spot checks would it take to convince you?



Can you please clarify what specific problems results from this 'madness'?



When I passed by shortly after 8am the queue from Churchtown was precisely one tow truck. It looks like there were two vehicles waiting to turn right from Windy Arbour. There was no traffic queuing on the merged section outside the gym.

https://streamable.com/crtcrk

So again I'm asking - what particular problems are people talking about at this junction?

Not once did I mention traffic turning right from Windy Arbour up towards Churchtown.

I’ve explained it already and I’m not explaining again. I don’t go around wearing a camera either, so you’ll just have to take my, and others, word for it...

AndrewJRenko

fullstop wrote: »

Not once did I mention traffic turning right from Windy Arbour up towards Churchtown.

I’ve explained it already and I’m not explaining again. I don’t go around wearing a camera either, so you’ll just have to take my, and others, word for it...

No, you mentioned the traffic coming from Churchtown turning right onto the bypass. As I mentioned above, and as you can see in the video, the queue from Churchtown was precisely one tow truck.

And no, I won't be taking you or other people's words for it. I'll be looking myself, on my regular journeys in the area to see what's actually happening.

There is a very clear and obvious trend of other people bigging up very minor changes because they just don't like the idea of providing safe facilities for cyclists. With drivers like this around, the need for safe facilities has never been greater.

https://twitter.com/danmandunne/status/1314142226151354370