Dundrum Main St one way

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So to sumarise, you don't want to use RTPI.

It really doesn't matter a toss to the passenger in Rathmines that the 14 has done "a magical mystery tour involving five right turns, multiple traffic lights, and passing a school imposed". The passenger in Rathmines doesn't care where the 14 has been. The passenger in Rathmines cares about what time the bus is going to arrive, and can get that information from RTPI.

It does matter that a reliable regular bus service isn't anymore though.

No this is nothing to with using RTPI, but rather:

• Having a previously reliable cross-city bus service restored to being reliable rather than being completely random
  
• Restoring the full bus connectivity with LUAS at Dundrum
  
• Restoring choice by having of all routes serving Ballinteer from Dundrum serving one stop in Dundrum again.

In my own case RTPI is pointless if going for a bus to town, as the time it takes me to walk to the stop is a little less than the time the average time it would take the bus to get from Dundrum normally. I'd leave for the stop as it was leaving the terminus.

Now, the buses can get delayed while on the very first part of the route, which RTPI cannot predict as it is happening randomly, and that won't be clear until I and others in Ballinteer are already walking to their stop.

So having had to already wait at my stop for 20 minutes on two occasions since this was implemented due to the buses getting delayed, you'll forgive me for not being particularly enthusiastic about this.

People in Rathmines for whom you seem to think that RTPI will be the panacea, on one of those occasions, couldn't get on the bus that I was on due to the bus being full (as full as is allowed nowadays) due to the headway from the previous bus being so great, and had to therefore wait for the bus behind the one that I was on.

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

M50
Bypass
LUAS.
Link road between m50 passed Wesley.
Upgraded bridge at Barton Road end

Are upgrades I can think off. Without putting to much thought into it

The traffic levels going south on the dual lane Wyckham Bypass at certain times can be atrocious due to traffic having revert to a single lane at Wesley to go to along Ballinteer Road to get to the M50 - that was poor planning to be fair.

The lack of a requirement to provide a proper bus interchange as part of the Town Centre development including shelters etc. meant that the centre is more car-centric in terms of how people get to it from areas that are off the LUAS route.

Tabnabs

ted1 wrote: »

Pretty sure they had bikes in Dundrum in 1958.

https://www.history.com/news/pedal-your-way-through-the-bicycles-bumpy-history

It certainly wasn’t congested with cars

In 1958, when the train line was closed after being in operation since 10 July 1854?

What were bikes like in 1854 again? Here's a hint for you, the penny farthing didn't even exist until 1869

The buses took over as the main means of mass public transport. The same bus routes that are now being restricted, rerouted and delayed.

But no, the cars, the cars...!

ted1

[IMG][/img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/danielbowen/7999510360/

Tabnabs wrote: »

In 1958, when the train line was closed after being in operation since 10 July 1854?

What were bikes like in 1854 again? Here's a hint for you, the penny farthing didn't even exist until 1869

The buses took over as the main means of mass public transport. The same bus routes that are now being restricted, rerouted and delayed.

But no, the cars, the cars...!

Busses and bikes aren’t the ones causing issues.

Guess what it’s cars, cars are the issue. They are causing congestion.

The population density has changed greatly. And it’s no longer focused around the village.

Tabnabs

Those goalposts you set up must be made of butter, they slip and slide around so much!

Mass public transport can no longer access the vital areas they were designed to serve in Dundrum. In addition, are unable to offer a reliable and speedy service due to the added distance they are forced to take, leading to longer commute times, more pollution and less incentive to use over private cars.

If you close roads and allow only one means of transport, it has negative consequences for the other categories of users. Public transport should not be held hostage in this manner.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

So if the passenger looks at RTPI in Rathmines and sees 45 mins until the next 14 becuase the last 14 had to drop a lap because of traffic congestion do you think that passenger/s is/are going to be happy? It all has a knock on effect on the efficient operation of a bus route. You clearly have zero knowledge of how buses operate.

Look at the 145 and 155 as an example. Regularly gets held up in Bray causing long delays in areas like Shankill, Loughlinstown and Cabinteely. By your logic the traffic situation in Bray has nothing to do with delays in Shankill, Louglinstown or Cabinteely.

45 minutes in Rathmines? There is a 14 every 20 minutes roughly. Here's the 2nd and 3rd 14s due in Rathmines right now - a long way off 45 minutes.

fullstop

They’ve made a complete mess of the lights under Taney Bridge and at the bottom of the bypass with the re-sequencing since the ‘upgrade’.

AndrewJRenko

LXFlyer wrote: »

It does matter that a reliable regular bus service isn't anymore though.

No this is nothing to with using RTPI, but rather:

• Having a previously reliable cross-city bus service restored to being reliable rather than being completely random
  
• Restoring the full bus connectivity with LUAS at Dundrum
  
• Restoring choice by having of all routes serving Ballinteer from Dundrum serving one stop in Dundrum again.

In my own case RTPI is pointless if going for a bus to town, as the time it takes me to walk to the stop is a little less than the time the average time it would take the bus to get from Dundrum normally. I'd leave for the stop as it was leaving the terminus.

Now, the buses can get delayed while on the very first part of the route, which RTPI cannot predict as it is happening randomly, and that won't be clear until I and others in Ballinteer are already walking to their stop.

So having had to already wait at my stop for 20 minutes on two occasions since this was implemented due to the buses getting delayed, you'll forgive me for not being particularly enthusiastic about this.

People in Rathmines for whom you seem to think that RTPI will be the panacea, on one of those occasions, couldn't get on the bus that I was on due to the bus being full (as full as is allowed nowadays) due to the headway from the previous bus being so great, and had to therefore wait for the bus behind the one that I was on.

Seeing as the 14s leave every 20 minutes, it sounds like you've been very, very unlucky. But here's a mad idea - use the RTPI or just leave 15 minutes later and you'll be grand.

Would you like me to do some hands-on research on the RTPI at the stop at Holy Cross?

AndrewJRenko

fullstop wrote: »

They’ve made a complete mess of the lights under Taney Bridge and at the bottom of the bypass with the re-sequencing since the ‘upgrade’.

How exactly does this mess manifest? I've seen people moaning about taking 25 minutes to turn right up by Notre Dame, but anytime I pass through, the queue clears in one change of lights. What problems are you seeing, at what time of day?

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Seeing as the 14s leave every 20 minutes, it sounds like you've been very, very unlucky. But here's a mad idea - use the RTPI or just leave 15 minutes later and you'll be grand.

Would you like me to do some hands-on research on the RTPI at the stop at Holy Cross?

If that is the best quality of advice and reply that you can come up with, I really don’t see the point in continuing any discussion with you. If you are going to be that dismissive of the issues facing public transport users, then just don’t bother.

There are real issues that need sorting out.

Again the disruption happens too close to the terminus so RTPI is no use as it as will continuously stay at the estimated journey time per the schedule.

They are showing up in Ballinteer having taken completely random journey times - that’s the problem, aside from the loss of choice and connectivity.

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

45 minutes in Rathmines? There is a 14 every 20 minutes roughly. Here's the 2nd and 3rd 14s due in Rathmines right now - a long way off 45 minutes.

I have come across waits of over 45 mins for routes that are supposed to run at a 10 minute frequency.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

I have come across waits of over 45 mins for routes that are supposed to run at a 10 minute frequency.

Yeah, I've had odd experiences like that from time to time too, but not as a matter of routine. There's no way that people in Rathmines are routinely waiting 45 minutes for a 14.

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yeah, I've had odd experiences like that from time to time too, but not as a matter of routine. There's no way that people in Rathmines are routinely waiting 45 minutes for a 14.

When you make such a change to traffic it will become a more common occurence. Journey time becomes much more unpredictable.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

When you make such a change to traffic it will become a more common occurence. Journey time becomes much more unpredictable.

The RTPI disagrees with you.

fullstop

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How exactly does this mess manifest? I've seen people moaning about taking 25 minutes to turn right up by Notre Dame, but anytime I pass through, the queue clears in one change of lights. What problems are you seeing, at what time of day?

Used to be set up so that when right filter light came on for traffic coming from Churchtown direction to head up the bypass, the 2nd light (at the gym) would turn green and remain green for the green light at the bridge for traffic coming from Windy Arbour, meaning there was no backlog. With the new sequence, about 5 seconds after the green light for traffic from Windy Arbour, the 2nd light turns red (only 3-4 cars can get through) and people are blocking up the junction, made worse by the fact that now there’s only only lane instead of two to hold that traffic between the 2 sets of lights.

punisher5112

15 minutes to do the 5 right turns it's taking and this will only get worse.
At night and off peak times it's less of course but before they would have been in churchtown or close to it at that point, to be still in Dundrum after that long that is just pure madness.


This was not thought through at all and I feel terribly bad for anyone living there or that rely on the service or just plain toget around.

Life should be getting easier not harder.

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The RTPI disagrees with you.

And until that 2 mins goes to 3 mins back to 2 mins to 4 mins and then 1 minute.

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

And until that 2 mins goes to 3 mins back to 2 mins to 4 mins and then 1 minute.

You know well that's the exception rather than the rule. RTPI right now has three 14s due within 20 minutes. Are all three going to take 45 minutes?

GT89

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know well that's the exception rather than the rule. RTPI right now has three 14s due within 20 minutes. Are all three going to take 45 minutes?

The 45 mins was just an example. 3 14s due in 20 mins would already suggest a discrepancy in keeping to the timetable the 14 is supposed to run every 15 mins. The 14 in 12 mins could catching up to the 14 in 7 mins or the one in 7 mins could be stuck in traffic meaning the one in 12 mins is catching up.

If the buses were running to schedule the bus in 7 mins should he followed by a bus in 22 mins.

Tea drinker

punisher5112 wrote: »

15 minutes to do the 5 right turns it's taking and this will only get worse.
At night and off peak times it's less of course but before they would have been in churchtown or close to it at that point, to be still in Dundrum after that long that is just pure madness.


This was not thought through at all and I feel terribly bad for anyone living there or that rely on the service or just plain toget around.

Life should be getting easier not harder.

It's easier for some and in their opinion and the council, and several politicians that's all that matters.

AndrewJRenko

fullstop wrote: »

Used to be set up so that when right filter light came on for traffic coming from Churchtown direction to head up the bypass, the 2nd light (at the gym) would turn green and remain green for the green light at the bridge for traffic coming from Windy Arbour, meaning there was no backlog. With the new sequence, about 5 seconds after the green light for traffic from Windy Arbour, the 2nd light turns red (only 3-4 cars can get through) and people are blocking up the junction, made worse by the fact that now there’s only only lane instead of two to hold that traffic between the 2 sets of lights.

I came through it from Churchtown around 5.30pm. There were zero vehicles queuing to turn right up the bypass.

Tarabuses

Tarabuses wrote: »

I do not understand the purpose of the cycle lane installed on the Upper Kilmacud Road and now preventing access to that road from Main Street, Ballinteer Road and Sandyford Road. It is only 15 meters long and then just ends. The road then becomes two way from that point.

It seems as if the cycle lane was an excuse to limit access to the Upper Kimacud Road rather than providing a benefit to anyone.

LXFlyer wrote: »

My understanding is that it's an attempt to reduce through traffic through Dundrum and force it to use the alternative routes via Taney Road and Overend Way.

So it is of no benefit to anyone.

LXFlyer

Tarabuses wrote: »

So it is of no benefit to anyone.

Well it reduces traffic levels through those crossroads, supposedly, which is what DLRCoCo say that they are trying to achieve.

Drifter50

fullstop wrote: »

They’ve made a complete mess of the lights under Taney Bridge and at the bottom of the bypass with the re-sequencing since the ‘upgrade’.

Yes, you are spot on there. When you travel eastbound on the Upper Churchtown Road and try to turn right under the Luas bridge towards Dundrum, you can only get a small number of vehicles in the queue towards Dundrum as the lanes have been squashed into 1. Therefore you can only get 4/5/6 vehicles through on each right turn filter. Thats what is causing the back up along the Upper Churchtown Road encouraging some traffic to take to the bus lane in an attempt to undercut those trying to turn right.
I was also travelling down the Kilmacud Road past the Garda Barracks into Dundrum village yesterday. Normally I would hope to turn left and seek parking in a loading bay to do a pick up but now I have to go straight on and around the top of the town centre and back down. I saw in my mirror a mature motorist following me who turned left up the Sandyford Road and ran head on into traffic coming down into Dundrum Village as there is only a northbound lane now.
Lots of problems created here, why of why not just leave it alone. It was fine the way it was

AndrewJRenko

GT89 wrote: »

The 45 mins was just an example. 3 14s due in 20 mins would already suggest a discrepancy in keeping to the timetable the 14 is supposed to run every 15 mins. The 14 in 12 mins could catching up to the 14 in 7 mins or the one in 7 mins could be stuck in traffic meaning the one in 12 mins is catching up.

If the buses were running to schedule the bus in 7 mins should he followed by a bus in 22 mins.

Is this Schrödinger's bus - simultaneously 45 minutes late and 7 minutes early? Honestly, you're really clutching at straws now. The patterns of 14s hitting Rathmines is no different than it was before these changes were made.

Any issues with the 14 service in Rathmines are due to the very ordinary issues of traffic and capacity.

LXFlyer wrote: »

If that is the best quality of advice and reply that you can come up with, I really don’t see the point in continuing any discussion with you. If you are going to be that dismissive of the issues facing public transport users, then just don’t bother.

There are real issues that need sorting out.

Again the disruption happens too close to the terminus so RTPI is no use as it as will continuously stay at the estimated journey time per the schedule.

They are showing up in Ballinteer having taken completely random journey times - that’s the problem, aside from the loss of choice and connectivity.

I spot-checked at stop 2845 just before 6pm this evening, and the 14 arrived spot on according to the RTPI, so whatever journey they are taking, it doesn't seem to be causing problems with the RTPI.

LXFlyer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I spot-checked at stop 2845 just before 6pm this evening, and the 14 arrived spot on according to the RTPI, so whatever journey they are taking, it doesn't seem to be causing problems with the RTPI.

I don't think you're fully understanding my point about RTPI.

RTPI works on the basis of applying scheduled stop to stop journey times to the bus location based on the GPS.

Close enough to the terminus, within the first 10 minutes or so, it's usefulness is greatly diminished. If the the bus gets delayed (as they have been), the RTPI won't reflect that. It'll keep displaying that the bus will arrive in say, 6 minutes until it actually starts moving again. In other words it could be a very long six minutes.

So it is pointless telling me to check RTPI, because the scheduled time could be 8 minutes, the bus gets delayed between the terminus and Ballinteer Road, RTPI will continue to show 6-7 minutes until the bus starts actually moving on Ballinteer Road. Meantime, the bus could actually take 25 minutes to get to the stop, which is what happened on the two occasions that I referenced above. RTPI didn't say that at all, it just kept showing 6-7 minutes for most of the time until the bus got past the delay.

Every trip is taking longer than pre-the works, but the actual journey times vary randomly from one departure to another due to getting stuck at the extra lights, stuck in school traffic that it didn't have before etc. and it just isn't reliable any more.

punisher5112

This is adding more time, more environment damage and extra fuel etc etc etc....

The whole idea and implementation without any agreement or consulting with residents etc is a kick in the teeth....

Transport should be getting quicker not longer and slower.

AndrewJRenko

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don't think you're fully understanding my point about RTPI.

RTPI works on the basis of applying scheduled stop to stop journey times to the bus location based on the GPS.

Close enough to the terminus, within the first 10 minutes or so, it's usefulness is greatly diminished. If the the bus gets delayed (as they have been), the RTPI won't reflect that. It'll keep displaying that the bus will arrive in say, 6 minutes until it actually starts moving again. In other words it could be a very long six minutes.

So it is pointless telling me to check RTPI, because the scheduled time could be 8 minutes, the bus gets delayed between the terminus and Ballinteer Road, RTPI will continue to show 6-7 minutes until the bus starts actually moving on Ballinteer Road. Meantime, the bus could actually take 25 minutes to get to the stop, which is what happened on the two occasions that I referenced above. RTPI didn't say that at all, it just kept showing 6-7 minutes for most of the time until the bus got past the delay.

Every trip is taking longer than pre-the works, but the actual journey times vary randomly from one departure to another due to getting stuck at the extra lights, stuck in school traffic that it didn't have before etc. and it just isn't reliable any more.

I'm getting your point. I'm just not seeing it matched by what's happening in the real world. How many examples of accurate RTPI would it take for you to accept that it's working fairly well?

AndrewJRenko

punisher5112 wrote: »

This is adding more time, more environment damage and extra fuel etc etc etc....

The whole idea and implementation without any agreement or consulting with residents etc is a kick in the teeth....

Transport should be getting quicker not longer and slower.

Though the return journeys on the other end will be quicker given that buses won't constantly be blocked by parked cars, so it will all come out in the wash.

punisher5112

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Though the return journeys on the other end will be quicker given that buses won't constantly be blocked by parked cars, so it will all come out in the wash.

What parked cars?

Car parking wasn't an issue only when illegally done so and blocking bus stop which hasn't changed.