Dundrum Main St one way

Pythagorean

The Council have sprung this on us without much prior notice. Dundrum Main St is now one way city bound. Not only this, but it appears that traffic is now prohibited from going up the hill at the crossroads,( Stillorgan bound, past the Garda station). The Council claim that there is a bypass which can take the diverted traffic, but anyone familiar with the traffic situation at the roundabouts near the Dundrum Town Centre, particularly on wet weekends in the Winter, would avoid this area like the plague. The 14 bus will now have to follow a tortuous diversion route where before it was a straight run up the Main St. onto the Ballinteer road. The council claim this is in response to the Covid situation??? The logic of it eludes me, anyone else have an opinion on this ?

Larbre34

I think its unelected zealots not wasting a good crisis myself. My views are well documented in the 'Dun Laoghaire' thread and these town and village measures are supposed to be "temporary" but my own opinion is that businesses and locals are being railroaded by the cycling lobby operating within DLRC management.

ted1

I think it’s great. The village is bypassed and this will help make the village much more enticing for people to use rather than it being a rat run.

Viscount Aggro

Councillor Anne Colgan, part of a local pressure group - she canvassed the other county councillors , to vote this through.

ted1

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

Councillor Anne Colgan, part of a local pressure group - she canvassed the other county councillors , to vote this through.

Good to see an active Cllr. Fair play to her

coylemj

On the basis that 'it's an ill wind...' The new one-way system in Dundrum means that the outbound (towards Tallaght) 75 bus now continues down the hill instead of doing that crazy loop around Sydenham Road. Though the bus stop outside the Holy Cross school on the hill has been removed but the Go-Ahead drivers are letting people out at the bottom of the hill if the lights are red. Which makes getting to the Dundrum Centre a lot easier.

punisher5112

coylemj wrote: »

On the basis that 'it's an ill wind...' The new one-way system in Dundrum means that the outbound (towards Tallaght) 75 bus now continues down the hill instead of doing that crazy loop around Sydenham Road. Though the bus stop outside the Holy Cross school on the hill has been removed but the Go-Ahead drivers are letting people out at the bottom of the hill if the lights are red. Which makes getting to the Dundrum Centre a lot easier.

Pure stupidity that is and only looking for trouble....

75 should never have been moved, all that did was add extra time onto an already long route....

coylemj

punisher5112 wrote: »

Pure stupidity that is and only looking for trouble....

Letting people off at the crossroads? It's not dangerous at all, the traffic lane at that point is barely the width of the bus so when you step off, you're straight on to the footpath, there's absolutely no danger of getting hit by a bike on the inside because there's no room for one. And if the lights change, the driver won't move the bus until he closes the doors so how is it 'asking for trouble'?

punisher5112

coylemj wrote: »

Letting people off at the crossroads? It's not dangerous at all, the traffic lane at that point is barely the width of the bus so when you step off, you're straight on to the footpath, there's absolutely no danger of getting hit by a bike on the inside because there's no room for one. And if the lights change, the driver won't move the bus until he closes the doors so how is it 'asking for trouble'?

Is it a bus stop?

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is it a bus stop?

No it is not.....

Pythagorean

ted1 wrote: »

I think it’s great. The village is bypassed and this will help make the village much more enticing for people to use rather than it being a rat run.

The Main St in Dundrum was not bad for traffic as it was, most went via the bypass. The new system involves a lot of unnecessary loops around and about, and as I mentioned earlier, I can no longer go up the hill at the crossroads, but I am now forced to go via the roundabout at the Dundrum Town centre, this particular route can be a nightmare for traffic at certain times. The new system also eliminates on street parking, including disabled spaces, and electric car charging spaces, to the detriment of local businesses, in my opinion.

.anon.

Pythagorean wrote: »

The Main St in Dundrum was not bad for traffic as it was, most went via the bypass. The new system involves a lot of unnecessary loops around and about, and as I mentioned earlier, I can no longer go up the hill at the crossroads, but I am now forced to go via the roundabout at the Dundrum Town centre, this particular route can be a nightmare for traffic at certain times. The new system also eliminates on street parking, including disabled spaces, and electric car charging spaces, to the detriment of local businesses, in my opinion.

It didn't suffer from high volumes of traffic, but legal on-street parking caused huge issues for buses. It's great that they've got rid of that particular scourge, and hopefully other towns and villages will follow suit. Also, turning at the crossroads was a nightmare for the 14 and 75 (going in either direction) because of poorly positioned cars.

Incidentally, nobody is being 'forced' to drive anywhere - especially in an area with decent public transport links.

ted1

Pythagorean wrote: »

The Main St in Dundrum was not bad for traffic as it was, most went via the bypass. The new system involves a lot of unnecessary loops around and about, and as I mentioned earlier, I can no longer go up the hill at the crossroads, but I am now forced to go via the roundabout at the Dundrum Town centre, this particular route can be a nightmare for traffic at certain times. The new system also eliminates on street parking, including disabled spaces, and electric car charging spaces, to the detriment of local businesses, in my opinion.

You are not been forced to go anyway. There are alternative methods available.

What you need to do is look at your starting point and finishing point and see an alternative way of getting there. That differs from your previous route. Don’t try to use the old route.

As for disabled parking. , have to look at that. In Dalkey it’s being kept

ted1

Pythagorean wrote: »

The new system also eliminates on street parking, including disabled spaces, and electric car charging spaces, to the detriment of local businesses, in my opinion.

Looked up the parking. And afraid to say, that you are talking rubbish.


“ While on-street parking will be repositioned from the east to the west side of Main Street to help facilitate these necessary changes, the majority of standard on-street car parking spaces will be retained with the incorporation of a further disability car parking space, 2 new hybrid loading bay/car parking spaces and additional bike parking spaces which will be installed at various locations along Main Street and Sandyford Road. There is no net loss of car parking, with a better distribution through the village and improved accessibility to assist persons with mobility challenges, businesses for loading/unloading and people cycling in the village.”

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/transportation-infrastructure/dundrum-mobility-interventions

Seaswimmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think its unelected zealots not wasting a good crisis myself. My views are well documented in the 'Dun Laoghaire' thread and these town and village measures are supposed to be "temporary" but my own opinion is that businesses and locals are being railroaded by the cycling lobby operating within DLRC management.

I have followed your posts on the Dun Laoghaire thread and always found them reasonable and well thought out. However given that the vast majority of the posts re Dun Laoghiare were about decline in business/lack of foot fall/death of the town/parking ect, do you not think it is time to try something different?

Could it be that in time Blackrock/Dun Laoghaire/Dundrum/Dalkey may be better places both for people and businesses. as a result of these changes?

If we don't at least try then we will never know.

Larbre34

They certainly may be, but as I've said all along there are a few big indicators which will tell. And we will see the first of those in 2 weeks time when the schools return, doing so while public transport remains very restricted.

Edgware

punisher5112 wrote: »

No it is not.....

Then the driver is breaking the law and is liable for prosecution. The employer would also
be justified in disciplining him/her. In the event of an accident Dublin Bus would be liable

punisher5112

Edgware wrote: »

Then the driver is breaking the law and is liable for prosecution. The employer would also
be justified in disciplining him/her. In the event of an accident Dublin Bus would be liable

Gai....

Nothing to do with db

Edgware

punisher5112 wrote: »

Gai....

Nothing to do with db

Whichever bus company employs the driver will have liability through their insurance

punisher5112

Edgware wrote: »

Whichever bus company employs the driver will have liability through their insurance

db is insurance exempt.

If anything happens the person just claims anyway...
Drivers shouldn't be opening themselves up to problems, if passengers want a stop then go apply for one to be fitted.

GT89

Edgware wrote: »

Then the driver is breaking the law and is liable for prosecution. The employer would also
be justified in disciplining him/her. In the event of an accident Dublin Bus would be liable

Not breaking any law no more so than allowing someone to leave your car whilst stopped in traffic is against the law I'd imagine. Against company policy I'd imagine but company policy may allow for passengers to let off in exceptional circumstances.

The TFL big red book which is a guidebook isssued to London bus drivers says a driver can let passengers outside of a recognised bus stop in circumstances like diversions and heavy traffic. I would imagine the DB and GAI have similar rules to TFL.

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

db is insurance exempt.

If anything happens the person just claims anyway...
Drivers shouldn't be opening themselves up to problems, if passengers want a stop then go apply for one to be fitted.

Couldn't the driver claim they were being abusive and that was the reason why they let them out?

coylemj

GT89 wrote: »

Couldn't the driver claim they were being abusive and that was the reason why they let them out?

Hardly credible when 10 people get out at the same stop.

But the point you make about convenience where there are diversions or delays is valid and is precisely why the 75 (GA) drivers are letting people off at the bottom of the hill in Dundrum.

And as you point out, cars (especially taxis) drop people off anywhere they choose to. Even on clearways, where it is specifically illegal.

DB drivers have been letting people out at safe points for years and I have yet to hear about an RTA prosecution (if it's even an offence) or a civil case where someone was injured alighting and the fact that it was not an offficial stop was quoted as a contributory factor.

greenttc

Can't say I like this change either. I completely agree that it is diverting traffic onto the already over congested Wyckham way (Road with the roundabouts) which is completely ridiculous.
I don't think this new plan will facilitate businesses at all, it has hardly been pedestrianised to draw people down there, it is not any more attractive to those on foot. Obviously less people will drive down the street now. I have often driven down and spotted some thing new that enticed me to visit the village, this won't happen any more. Also there will be less people getting on/off buses there which will further reduce footfall. This feels to me like a forther nail in the dundrum coffin.

Such a pity, dundrum used to be such a thriving busy little village.

GT89

coylemj wrote: »

Hardly credible when 10 people get out at the same stop.

But the point you make about convenience where there are diversions or delays is valid and is precisely why the 75 (GA) drivers are letting people off at the bottom of the hill in Dundrum.

And as you point out, cars (especially taxis) drop people off anywhere they choose to. Even on clearways, where it is specifically illegal.

DB drivers have been letting people out at safe points for years and I have yet to hear about an RTA prosecution (if it's even an offence) or a civil case where someone was injured alighting and the fact that it was not an offficial stop was quoted as a contributory factor.

I'm not sure why they can't just let them out at the stop outside the school I mean all the stop infrastructure except the shelter are still there and it is safe place to let people on and off. As buses can safely pull in and still has the kassel kerbing at least last time I was there unless it's been removed.

That would be the common sense thing to do all common sense although common sense is not something that's in abundance when it comes to the NTA, DLRCC, DCC and other such bodies.

Pythagorean

I believe plans are afoot to make Beach rd in Sandymount one way from Merrion gates to the bridge, while devoting one lane exclusively to cyclists. Given that this route takes a load of traffic from the ferries, Dublin port etc I wonder at the wisdom of this plan ????

punisher5112

Pythagorean wrote: »

I believe plans are afoot to make Beach rd in Sandymount one way from Merrion gates to the bridge, while devoting one lane exclusively to cyclists. Given that this route takes a load of traffic from the ferries, Dublin port etc I wonder at the wisdom of this plan ????

They want everyone to walk or cycle.....

Seaswimmer

Pythagorean wrote: »

I believe plans are afoot to make Beach rd in Sandymount one way from Merrion gates to the bridge, while devoting one lane exclusively to cyclists. Given that this route takes a load of traffic from the ferries, Dublin port etc I wonder at the wisdom of this plan ????

It dosent really. The vast majority of the Dublin Port freight traffic is containerised so has to go on hgv so has to use M50. Any cars from the ferry will be heading in all directions so only those possibly going to South Dublin/Wicklow will use this route. Also to my knowledge they haven't decided which way it is going to be one way. I used the road commuting for years and the vast majority of traffic on it is single occupancy cars going into or out of town during rush hours

coylemj

GT89 wrote: »

I'm not sure why they can't just let them out at the stop outside the school I mean all the stop infrastructure except the shelter are still there and it is safe place to let people on and off. As buses can safely pull in and still has the kassel kerbing at least last time I was there unless it's been removed.

I just studied the old bus stop on Google Streetview and there is a feature of the street furniture which makes it an unsuitable place for a bus to stop if passengers are alighting from the centre doors. You can see that there is a barrier at the edge of the path to stop kids running out of the school and straight onto the road. If a bus pulled up parallel to the path, that barrier will prevent or, at best, impede people exiting via the centre doors.

https://goo.gl/maps/y9C4tqPiF55JMn256

punisher5112

coylemj wrote: »

I just studied the old bus stop on Google Streetview and there is a feature of the street furniture which makes it an unsuitable place for a bus to stop if passengers are alighting from the centre doors. You can see that there is a barrier at the edge of the path to stop kids running out of the school and straight onto the road. If a bus pulled up parallel to the path, that barrier will prevent or, at best, impede people exiting via the centre doors.

https://goo.gl/maps/y9C4tqPiF55JMn256

If the bus pulls in correctly it will work.

ted1

GT89 wrote: »

Couldn't the driver claim they were being abusive and that was the reason why they let them out?

No? There’s CCTV all over the bus

dublinman1990

coylemj wrote: »

I just studied the old bus stop on Google Streetview and there is a feature of the street furniture which makes it an unsuitable place for a bus to stop if passengers are alighting from the centre doors. You can see that there is a barrier at the edge of the path to stop kids running out of the school and straight onto the road. If a bus pulled up parallel to the path, that barrier will prevent or, at best, impede people exiting via the centre doors.

https://goo.gl/maps/y9C4tqPiF55JMn256

There really should be two or three separate evenly spaced barriers with gaps in-between at that bus stop so that the bus fitted with middle doors can have the space to actually allow the bus to pull in & safely let off passengers at the bus stop. It should have been done a long time ago when the 75 was serving that stop with Dublin Bus. People like me would have thought that would have been a sensible solution to the problem back then. But talk of that even being materalized in reality never took place here as those moves didn't happen in the past unfortunately as the infrastructure being built here over the years was/is still very poor compared to other countries.

A country with poor transport infrastructure does look quite unattractive to the untrained eye. Ireland really had a painful past with that problem for several decades.

We were good at providing the basics in adequate transport infrastructure to any person who wanted to use it but if you were a citizen wanting to see more improvements in the system like integrated ticketing or underground railway/metro in places like Dublin. Forget it. People here in higher political circles here would imply towards us that because of a lack of money to support such infrastructure in our economy; you would need to go to other advanced countries to experience those things instead.

However; as things stand, due to huge investment from BusConnects recently from the NTA being made before covid. It is making more steps forward to drastically improve bus stop infrastructure in all cities including Dublin over the coming years in which is seen to be a good thing for society in general.

GT89

ted1 wrote: »

No? There’s CCTV all over the bus

CCTV dosen't have the ability to pick up on conversations

Edgware

GT89 wrote: »

CCTV dosen't have the ability to pick up on conversations

Of course he could say that and if he says it under oath he is committing perjury

punisher5112

Bus stop is just through the lights at h
Jamie Oliver's so pointless letting people out at the lights for them to change and then miss them .

silver2020

Edgware wrote: »

Then the driver is breaking the law and is liable for prosecution. The employer would also
be justified in disciplining him/her.

I'd love to see this "law" - can you point me to it on the statute books?


Busses up and down the country particularly on rural roads that stop day in and day out for their passengers at any point of the road requested must be trembling in their boots


Possibly its a "regulation" and drivers are told that its a health and safety issue in built up areas. But certainly I doubt if its a "law"

punisher5112

silver2020 wrote: »

I'd love to see this "law" - can you point me to it on the statute books?


Busses up and down the country particularly on rural roads that stop day in and day out for their passengers at any point of the road requested must be trembling in their boots


Possibly its a "regulation" and drivers are told that its a health and safety issue in built up areas. But certainly I doubt if its a "law"

See that's how it was till people started claiming for anything and everything....

I've been called and asked about someone walking into a pole, not on the bus but on the street and somehow this involves the company and me for some bizarre reason... Was a great laugh though been asked.

Edgware

silver2020 wrote: »

I'd love to see this "law" - can you point me to it on the statute books?


Busses up and down the country particularly on rural roads that stop day in and day out for their passengers at any point of the road requested must be trembling in their boots


Possibly its a "regulation" and drivers are told that its a health and safety issue in built up areas. But certainly I doubt if its a "law"

Have a look at S 86 Road Traffic Act 1961 and come back to us Rumpole

Edgware

Edgware wrote: »

Have a look at S 86 Road Traffic Act 1961 and come back to us Rumpole

Which was repealed by the "'Road Traffic Act 2002 (12/2002), s. 25(2), S.I. No. 12 of 2013.'"



I bet you feel silly now Lionel Hutz Edgware.

punisher5112

Goatstown road last night they removed all the barriers and cones exposing the new tyre shredder and smashing alloy kerbing with no warnings or poles.... Seen 2 engineers and asked them why they would allow such to take place and no cones to identify the raised kerbs.... Oh eh their fitting the poles.... There was nobody else there.

punisher5112

On the Dundrum part it's taking an extremely long time to implement the temporary measures and actually putting in the temporary poles and street furniture....

If anyone actually believe this is temporary they're in for a shock....


Cyclists going both ways, people just walking out and cars still going the wrong way.... Brilliant job council lads.... Someone is going to be killed

Drifter50

Why change Dundrum if it was not a problem. Traffic moved around Dundrum reasonably well, people could come and go and get on with their business. The 16 bus serves east Ballinteer and this service travels towards Rathfarnham and down the Grange Road. Unless you live close to Ballinteer Avenue the 75 and 14 services are difficult to access
I used to go to Dundrum either to use the Main Street or the old centre but now it is such a hassle to get to Dundrum I just don`t bother and I`m sure I`m not the only one.
Much easier to use Stillorgan now, free parking, more relaxed etc etc etc
Just when Dundrum lower was starting to get on its feet, the council have killed it
Well done councillers, I`m sure all the businesses are delighted with you.......not

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Goatstown road last night they removed all the barriers and cones exposing the new tyre shredder and smashing alloy kerbing with no warnings or poles.... Seen 2 engineers and asked them why they would allow such to take place and no cones to identify the raised kerbs.... Oh eh their fitting the poles.... There was nobody else there.

Why would you hit the kerb ? Have you trouble keeping the car straight ?

LXFlyer

Drifter50 wrote: »

Why change Dundrum if it was not a problem. Traffic moved around Dundrum reasonably well, people could come and go and get on with their business. The 16 bus serves east Ballinteer and this service travels towards Rathfarnham and down the Grange Road. Unless you live close to Ballinteer Avenue the 75 and 14 services are difficult to access
I used to go to Dundrum either to use the Main Street or the old centre but now it is such a hassle to get to Dundrum I just don`t bother and I`m sure I`m not the only one.
Much easier to use Stillorgan now, free parking, more relaxed etc etc etc
Just when Dundrum lower was starting to get on its feet, the council have killed it
Well done councillers, I`m sure all the businesses are delighted with you.......not

Surely whether the 14 and 75 are “difficult to access” depends on where you live? Just because they don’t apparently suit you personally doesn’t mean they aren’t useful.

They aren’t a million miles away from the northern end of Grange Road through the housing estates either.

But you seem to be blissfully unaware of the 161 and 175 bus routes that link Grange Road directly with Dundrum.

As a bus user there is a lot to complain about this scheme in Dundrum but the number of buses linking Ballinteer or Grange Road with Dundrum is not one of them.

Blump

silver2020 wrote: »

I'd love to see this "law" - can you point me to it on the statute books?


Busses up and down the country particularly on rural roads that stop day in and day out for their passengers at any point of the road requested must be trembling in their boots


Possibly its a "regulation" and drivers are told that its a health and safety issue in built up areas. But certainly I doubt if its a "law"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/37/section/7/enacted/en/html

All stops on a route need to be approved as a condition of the licence from the NTA

punisher5112

ted1 wrote: »

Why would you hit the kerb ? Have you trouble keeping the car straight ?

Go and look at the road there is a path, grass verge, cycle lane and then a new kerb which is extremely sharp and high too outside the original cycle lane. At night with other vehicles coming across the wrong side due to the opposite side it would be extremely easy to hit it. Where do cars go when emergency services need to get by in traffic, vehicles can't move....

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go and look at the road there is a path, grass verge, cycle lane and then a new kerb which is extremely sharp and high too outside the original cycle lane. At night with other vehicles coming across the wrong side due to the opposite side it would be extremely easy to hit it. Where do cars go when emergency services need to get by in traffic, vehicles can't move....

Is it not one way?

punisher5112

ted1 wrote: »

Is it not one way?

Indeed....

Cyclists will be allowed both ways....

ted1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Indeed....

Cyclists will be allowed both ways....

So why would other vehicles be going the wrong way ?

punisher5112

ted1 wrote: »

So why would other vehicles be going the wrong way ?

Because they are.... They obviously don't see them any signs or don't care.

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which was repealed by the "'Road Traffic Act 2002 (12/2002), s. 25(2), S.I. No. 12 of 2013.'"



I bet you feel silly now Lionel Hutz Edgware.

Start at the 61 Act and work through up to 2019 including bye laws.
p.s. I'm no longer Lionel Hutz. I now practice under the name Miguel Sanchez