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Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Its the current consensus of the scientific community currently involved in research & programs that are sponsored & founded in the same manner as the lab in Wuhan .

    Even if you are correct & i ma wrong which is of course possible i would not call the theory a conspiracy ,

    Its happened before & will again its a very plausible & likely explanation even if it didn't happen , if you get me ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So all of the scientific community are being paid in secret to support one hypothesis over the other in.

    And this isn't a conspiracy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,851 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Right, somehow I don't think scientists are refuting the lab leak theory because they.. work in labs :)

    I recommend reading that article I posted, pretty interesting and covers things to date.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    But its not the whole scientific community that is the problem,

    Also there would no need to pay anyone off , they understand what problems for them it would cause,



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,851 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There are individual scientists who believe climate change is a hoax, likewise there are doctors and physicians who believe vaccines don't work, there are engineers and architects who believe 9/11 was an inside job, there are historians who deny facts about the Holocaust

    There are always outliers, which is why we pay attention to consensus rather than absolute majorities



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Ok. So they are using the "threat of problems" to stop scientists from supporting one hypothesis?

    And that's not a conspiracy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    How many published papers is there right now saying its zoonotic ?

    Can you tell me what animals are involved in this because science can not ,

    As i said it may turn out that yes it is zoonotic & that would not be a surprise but also it would not be a surprise if it turns out it was in fact a lab leak ,

    It has happened before & will again , in my eyes that is not a conspiracy until we have proof it was zoonotic

    I think that is fair ,



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,851 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    This is why I am suggesting you read the article.

    It isn't like there's a stack of papers that says X and another stack that says Y, that isn't how this works. It's complex. Ultimately we don't know the answer, but that doesn't mean it's exactly 50/50, for a lot of reasons, some simple, some complex, the general consensus at the moment is that the virus appears to be zoonotic in nature.

    "Ah sure cmon now lookit it has to have come from a lab, sure that's happened before" is not a part of any of that :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Wuhan Institute of Virology studies Coronavirus in bats, and Covid 19 broke out in that city just by coincidence? Because of human contact with bat viruses, lab theory makes much more sense. Personally, I don't think China leaked this intentionally, probably some storage or containment leak and some workers got infected.  



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    If it was a lab leak there is no way it would ever be made known to the public.

    It could lead to all sorts of societal issues.

    It may well have been a lab leak.

    There are people who definitely know what happened one way or another



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    WTC7 wasn't hit by a plane. It's somehow crackpot theory the building collapsed from controlled demolition, yet mainstream admits no tall building with steel frame has collapsed from fire in history. When they tried to prove it collapsed from fire, they changed the design of the building. In your rational due diligence world, lying about a building construction is normal? 

    Never mind proven countless times on here NIST denied freefall. Got a quote and this quote can be 100 percent verified by watching the video provided. It's never explained why NIST originally said freefall wasn't possible by debunkers. Ignore the video as if doesnt exist., 


    Question was asked at 1 minute 42 seconds. If i misquoted NIST answer please point out where and when did so.

    Quote A] free-fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it.... What the analysis shows...is that same time it took for the structural model to come down...is 5.4 seconds. It’s about 1.5 seconds, or roughly 40 percent, more time for that free fall to happen. And that is not at all unusual because there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case.”




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,851 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "That thing can't have happened because it was the first time in history it happened!"

    "My thing happened despite it being the first time in history" (towers blown up by secret explosives after being rammed by airliners)

    As pointed out many times before, you offer the best possible argument against 9/11 being an inside job



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    In the final report, NIST says this.

    The approach taken by NIST is summarized in Section 3.6 of the final summary report, NCSTAR 1A (released Nov. 20, 2008; available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201A.pdf) and detailed in Section 12.5.3 of NIST NCSTAR 1-9 (available at http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201-9%20Vol%202.pdf).

    The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:

    • Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
    • Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
    • Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity

    https://www.nist.gov/pao/questions-and-answers-about-nist-wtc-7-investigation

    This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.

    You see the second building on the roof?

    Take a look at what happens when that structure fails comes down watch the gif.

    Here, the steel column core holding up the second structure gave way and the building falls rapidly.

    Probably unable to see the problem taken years for you guys to notice anything unusual. 

    See all those broken windows running up the west wall opposite where the Penthouse collapsed? 

    Do you notice the building at stage of collapse before they appear? 

    The problem is that the building was rapidly falling here when windows broke on the west side, but NIST claims part of the building still provides resistance, slowing the fall (stage 1). 

    The reality is when that second structure went the building started to freefall. Apparently, NIST picked some artificial start time to slow that fall so they could claim fire caused it. The NIST screenshot matches the broken windows on the west side



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Why wouldn't it be made public?


    If there were failings in the operation of the lab which resulted in the leak then all other similar labs would be delighted to see a full report on it and carry out any changes that are then required to prevent it happening again. No reason at all for it to be kept quite, and impossible to do so if there is already some existing evidence proving that it was a lab leak.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,561 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The lab is there because there are lots of bats and new virus nearby that spread before the lab even existed.

    If a weather station is built near a stormy location, I don't blame the weather station for the storms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    Why wouldn't it be kept quiet?!

    Who's on the hook for millions of deaths?

    Who's on the hook for complete global shutdown?

    Think of the global misery caused,the knock on effects.

    How many millions around the world missed health care and now died, the mental health ,the businesses lost. The absolute scale of a global pandemic.

    There's not a hope in hell it would be made public. No chance. Zero

    It is not on the public interest.

    The Wuhan lab

    "The institute has collaborated with the Galveston National Laboratory in the United States, the Centre International de Recherche en Infectiologie in France, and the National Microbiology Laboratory in Canada. The institute has been an active premier research center for the study of coronaviruses."

    Many countries involved in research.

    "Other labs would be delighted "

    Jeez mate, think bigger



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    OK. So the conspiracy is that there is a concerted effort to keep all of this quiet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones


    I'm saying if it was a lab leak the public would never be told. No way.

    A global pandemic but a seemingly poor effort to discover the origins. Wouldn't you think they would be concerned about another pandemic so would be moving heaven and earth to discover how it started. But yet nothing is ever released and no real visible global effort

    So maybe the origin is already known by the stakeholders



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    OK. And I'm saying if that were the case that this would be due to a conspiracy.


    Cause it's being argued that this isn't a conspiracy and that the public also already know cause it's obvious and there's tons of evidence apparently.


    It's a little confusing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I think it was an accidental lab leak ,

    Can you tell us what Animal where involved ? you can't & they can't seems pretty strange to claim something is Zoonotic but you can't actually say from what ,

    As i said even if turns out to be from Animals it's cert9ianly not a pie in the sky" conspiracy" to think it was an accidental leak form a lab ,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    Talking about accidental leak's from a lab. I suppose it's like when all those minks went missing from a mink farm up north and made it all the way across the country.

    I remember a few years ago there was sightings of racoons around the Burren. People were being laughed at about it until one was found dead on the side of the road.

    There's one up near me and nobody has caught it yet,I don't think there's a pair so it'll probably die in a few years if not caught. Big head on the bastard too, seen him pulling a neighbours chicken across the road one night last winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Which lab did it leak from and how did it leak?

    If you can't show this, then don't your own objections apply to your explanation?

    Would be pretty strange to say it's a lab leak but can't actually say from what.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    From The Wuhan institute of virology ,

    Researcher got themselves infected and when the left work passed it on to others,

    Like what happened with SARS at a virology lab in Beijing that studied the disease back in the early 2000's , They got infected & then infected 7 others outside of work before it was contained ,

    Is there a reason that could NOT have happened in Wuhan ?

    I'm not sure why you would totally dismiss it as a possibility without an evidence that proves it was 100 % zoonotic

    its ok to think both cases are very possible,



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Ok. What evidence do you that that this actually happened?

    There's a ton of possibilities for the zoonotic origin also, so why do you dismiss it as a possibility because you believe people can't point to one specific one?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Where have i dismissed it ?

    Yes I have said i think its a lab leak but iv also said it is of course possible its Zoonotic,

    I'm not sure why anyone would write off either without confirmation ,

    U'd make a terrible cop 😉



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So you know about this... But also know that nobody will ever know anything about what happened because... Something.


    Procedural screw ups happen all the time. That doesn't mean that these things then get kept quiet. Other labs will be really interested in what happened so that they don't do the same thing. As for any claims being made against the labs involved, maybe that does happen. But it's not like they have any money to pay billions out to every country on the planet. All that would happen would be that lab gets closed down.

    But anyway, it will be impossible to keep it a secret... Especially as you already know.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    People haven't written off the various options for the cause. They are just looking at the most likely causes based on what we currently know and going with that for now.


    Whilst you have switched to backing the less supported claim, and then added on some extensive massive international conspiracy around it as well to make out some big scary organisations that only you are aware of is actually behind it all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Ok. So it can be zoonotic.

    Then could you explain your point please. Why are you asking for people to identify the exact species it originated from? How is that a point against the zoonotic origin? Why is it not a point against the lab leak origin when you admit by omissision you can't point out where the virus supposedly leaked from a lab?


    What about the conspiracy explanations for why it was leaked on purpose? Like the notion that it was a designed virus engineered to cause the pandemic. Can we write that idea off?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I'm guessing by your post your not aware of how these labs are actually funded,

    They are not stand alone Labs, funding comes from various organisations all around the World

    The Wuhan Lab has got funding from the European commission & the US national institutions of health into the millions

    A major issues in one lab could lead to an end of funding for other labs around the globe,

    Back in 2014 there was big news that Obama's White House announce that it would temporarily halt all new funding for experiments that seek to study certain infectious agents by making them more dangerous This was big news back then these labs are not & never have been stand alone ,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,691 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I'm pointing out to you that just like i can not pinpoint how exactly it escaped the lab , Science can not pin point exactly how it became zoonotic,

    Both story have there holes in them ,that's why i can't understand why you would write either completely off,

    We have seen through history numerous ways virus can escape labs by accident, Just like we have seen these things can also be zoonotic,

    Personally i don't think the 3rd option is a goer because it would make no sense, As we have seen once it gets out its nearly impossible to control the spread so you would just be putting yourself at danger ,Anyone who had studied the virus would no doubt understand that ,

    So i believe yes you can write that off,



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