Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

i_surge

Micky 32 wrote: »

I was just looking at Worldometer, it seems worldwide deaths and cases are begining to subside but i’m sure you’ll have an excuse for it.

Look at France while you are at it.

Micky 32

i_surge wrote: »

Look at France while you are at it.

No, look at the world as a whole to get the real picture.

walus

i_surge wrote: »

So the answer to the growing debt problem is more debt and then get the poor to transfer it to the rich via consumerism. You have just exacerbated the problem you are trying to solve.

We could pay people to dig holes that is the usual way of pretending there is an economy.

Oh btw it is exactly what is happening now., giving money to the public

Unfortunately there is no genie or a magic wand that one could use instead in my reality (and reality of most population I guess). I’m not economist just an engineer, but to my knowledge no one has come up with a better solution. This is based on a presumption that we anticipate future wealth creation by gains in productivity and thus we borrow money to plug the hole caused by shutting down the economy and stimulate growth. Every lock down, means more money printing, and more taxes that you and I, and the rest of us will be paying for years to come. If you have a better idea, please share.
And no, what is happening today is that the government is in charge of that stimulus and it remains to be seen if they use it for economic or political gains.
The money must be delivered to peoples hands so that it gets spent and recycled through the economy as much as possible. Only then quantitative easing will work. Right now is nothing of the sort. It will be the establishment and corporations that will have the freedom of choice how much of that will get to the average Joe.

i_surge

walus wrote: »

Unfortunately there is no genie or a magic wand that one could use instead in my reality (and reality of most population I guess). I’m not economist just an engineer, but to my knowledge no one has come up with a better solution. This is based on a presumption that we anticipate future wealth creation by gains in productivity and thus we borrow money to plug the hole caused by shutting down the economy and stimulate growth. If you have a better idea, please share.
And no, what is happening today is that the government is in charge of that stimulus and it remains to be seen if they use it for economic or political gains.
The money must be delivered to peoples hands so that it gets spent and recycled through the economy as much as possible. Only then quantitative easing will work. Right now is nothing of the sort. It will be the establishment and corporations that will have the freedom of choice how much of that will get to the average Joe.

I gave you a better solution, you tried to mock it and somehow talked yourself into saying what he have right now is the answer to all our problems.

Maybe look back with an open mind and let's try to be constructive.

Micky 32

odyssey06 wrote: »

The death toll is still rising.
The v

No it’s not. I’ll repeat again. They are subsiding.

odyssey06

Micky 32 wrote: »

You obviously didn’t read my post so i’ll repeat. I never said the virus has ran it’s course. The death toll is subsiding worldwide and daily new cases. Is that hard to understand?

Yes your posts are hard to understand.
They dont appear to be in response to what I said.
The death toll from the virus is rising.

walus

i_surge wrote: »

I gave you a better solution, you tried to mock it and somehow talked yourself into saying what he have right now is the answer to all our problems.

Maybe look back with an open mind and let's try to be constructive.

Maybe you did, indeed. You failed however to convince me that it would be feasible. Simple as that. In theory it would work, it practise it wouldn’t.

i_surge

walus wrote: »

Maybe you did, indeed. You failed however to convince me that it would be feasible. Simple as that.

And you and other failed to show me how the economic end game works, or the health one. The plan seems to be to have no plan and trade the rights of one group for the other all with the risk of ****ing the whole country.

There is little constructive chat here, I'm out.

i_surge

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes your posts are hard to understand.
They dont appear to be in response to what I said.
The death toll from the virus is rising.

The true answer is it depends. Country to country. Situations vary.

But I feel your pain, fighting some real dogma and groupthink.

Micky 32

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes your posts are hard to understand.
They dont appear to be in response to what I said.
The death toll from the virus is rising.

No, when you’re stuck in a misery bubble you only understand what you want to understand. Deaths and cases are not rising worldwide.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Can you read? So Worldometer is putting false figures up?

Micky 32

i_surge wrote: »

The true answer is it depends. Country to country. Situations vary.

But I feel your pain, fighting some real dogma and groupthink.

Why, because you choose to ignore facts for your own agenda? The evidence is there. Worlwide cases/deaths are dropping but you are choosing to ignore it

i_surge

Micky 32 wrote: »

Why, because you choose to ignore facts for your own agenda? The evidence is there. Worlwide cases/deaths are dropping but you are choosing to ignore it

I agree with the facts, and in this case with you. Chill

CalamariFritti

i_surge wrote: »

That risk assessment wouldn't be worth the paper it is written on. Go look at the curve of new cases in France if you want to see how wrong you are.

Worldometer then france, it will take you 30 seconds.

Still nobody answered my question about economic recovery.

I just looked at France. I knew what I was going to see.

Big rise in cases. What about the graph 3 pics below?

I'm not saying I'm certain this is over already. But look at any European graph. Any of them Spain, Italy, Germany, ours.

Yes I know people are saying thats because of restrictions and nothing else. But how many new cases and how many weeks of deaths staying where they are do we need before we acknowledge that something else may be at play?

walus

i_surge wrote: »

And you and other failed to show me how the economic end game works, or the health one. The plan seems to be to have no plan and trade the rights of one group for the other all with the risk of ****ing the whole country.

There is little constructive chat here, I'm out.

Our current Covid situation does not warrant locking down again, so dwelling on that strategy in principle makes no sense.
I’m not sure what you understand by “end game” but you are right this discussion was going nowhere.

odyssey06

Micky 32 wrote: »

No, when you’re stuck in a misery bubble you only understand what you want to understand. Deaths and cases are not rising worldwide.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Can you read? So Worldometer is putting false figures up?

Misery bubble?
You are too busy sloganising to read the posts it appears.

What direction is the number of deaths going?
Is it static or going up?
If its going up that means the death toll is rising.

Is the death toll from the Asian flu outbreak still being tracked and going up?
Therefore it is not valid to compare a pandemic in progress to the final count of one that has concluded.
That was my post you seem to have taken issue with.

You can be wrong but when you are wrong and your posts drip with arrogance it is not a good look

Can you read?

Micky 32

odyssey06 wrote: »

Misery bubble?
You are too busy sloganising to read the posts it appears.

What direction is the number of deaths going?
Is it static or going up?
If its going up that means the death toll is rising.

Is the death toll from the Asian flu outbreak still being tracked and going up?
Therefore it is not valid to compare a pandemic in progress to the final count of one that has concluded.
That was my post you seem to have taken issue with.

You can be wrong but when you are wrong and your posts drip with arrogance it is not a good look

Can you read?

I’m guessing by that drivel you just wrote you never even bothered or wanted to look at the graph link i posted regarding deaths/cases facts worldwide.

FintanMcluskey

odyssey06 wrote: »

Misery bubble?
You are too busy sloganising to read the posts it appears.

What direction is the number of deaths going?
Is it static or going up?
If its going up that means the death toll is rising.

Is the death toll from the Asian flu outbreak still being tracked and going up?
Therefore it is not valid to compare a pandemic in progress to the final count of one that has concluded.
That was my post you seem to have taken issue with.

You can be wrong but when you are wrong and your posts drip with arrogance it is not a good look

Can you read?

Ill help you out, the death toll is falling not rising.

If 20 died yesterday and 10 died today, the daily death toll is falling

If 10 died yesterday and 20 died today the daily death toll is rising

odyssey06

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ill help you out, the death toll is falling not rising.
If 20 died yesterday and 10 died today, the daily death toll is falling
If 10 died yesterday and 20 died today the daily death toll is rising

Yes that is the 'daily' death toll.
Now go back and reread my posts comparing the death toll to other pandemics, which clearly were talking about death toll fullstop not daily death toll.

Quantum Erasure

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ill help you out, the death toll is falling not rising.

If 20 died yesterday and 10 died today, the daily death toll is falling

If 10 died yesterday and 20 died today the daily death toll is rising

The death TOLL either rises, or stops rising. The toll from the Asian flu 60 years ago has stopped rising...

FintanMcluskey

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

The death TOLL either rises, or stops rising.

No it doesn't, it also drops, as per the UK's 5000 drop.

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

Just curious...do you give any credibility to the fact that Spanish hospitals are empty...much like our own & many others.

Yes. Seems credible to me.

Assetbacked

5 in ICU, 27 in hospital (noting this doesn't mean they are suffering because of covid). Source: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

Increase in cases but the deaths peaked way back in early May, the data shows this (and of course even the deaths are conservative as it is deaths where the dead person had covid when they died, it doesnt mean they died from it). Source: FT.

Another 3 weeks until talk of easing again. If the government were a private company it would not survive, so inefficient, unadaptable, unaccountable, stupid etc. I cannot grasp why we are not moving on from the OTT restrictions to a more focused practice of protecting the vulnerable until those vulnerable can be vaccinated. Do the government not actually read the data themselves? Are they reliant on big pharmaceutical lobbyists stringing them along, hoping to prolong the hysteria to make big profits or from academics desperate to cling to their 15 minutes of fame? It just makes no sense what is going on.

FintanMcluskey

I see as the time passes and the daily death toll drops, while hospitals remain empty, those in favour of re imposing restriction's are reduced to pot shots without any credible argument.

FintanMcluskey

Assetbacked wrote: »

Do the government not actually read the data themselves?

They know full well the death toll from the cancellation of screening and other treatments will surpass Covid rather quickly.

It wont matter though because as long as their seen to prevent a Covid death most people will feel they have done well.

I never thought I'd see the day when the government chooses who dies

Just 22 in hospital, 5 in ICU, 0 deaths once again today.

Time to ditch whatever restrictions we are supposed to be following now.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Time to ditch whatever restrictions we are supposed to be following now.

They can't because that will be accepting responsibility that they were wrong and Sweden were right.

They will be accepting responsibility for the excess deaths we are going to see as a result of lockdown.

Essentially it will continue as is with no further instructions in the hope normality will resume itself.

walus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

They can't because that will be accepting responsibility that they were wrong and Sweden were right.

They will be accepting responsibility for the excess deaths we are going to see as a result of lockdown.

Essentially it will continue as is with no further instructions in the hope normality will resume itself.

Unfortunately that only holds true if the government don't see the zero covid as their goal.

There is a fundamental difference between covid positive, sick with covid, dead with covid and dead of covid, and in all this pandemic of fear and hysteria all these differences ceased to matter.

When the daily cases started rising in mid - late July, we were told that the hospitals would get overwhelmed and the bodies would start piling up. When it didn't happen, we were then told that it would take 2 weeks to see the rise in hospital cases. When that didn't happen, we were told it can take up to 4 weeks to see the rise.

Well as of last night, there are 22 in hospital. 5 of that 22 are in ICU. And again, little to no deaths over the last number of days.

Like I've been saying, keep this thing away from the nursing homes and what you are left with is a pretty mild illness. Of course it is likely impossible to fully keep it out. But our tracing and testing now means it is unlikely we'll get back to a level were there was 235 clusters in nursing homes.

CalamariFritti

Now the new reason why we can never return to normal gets rolled out. People apparently get reinfected. Surprise surprise it behaves like other coronaviruses. Of course the message is distancing and hand washing and masks and everything may stay with us for a long long time - possibly for the foreseeable future - forever?

Time to call it day. Protect the vulnerable and the fearful, watch the ICU numbers but basically snap out of it.

Limpy

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Now the new reason why we can never return to normal gets rolled out. People apparently get reinfected. Surprise surprise it behaves like other coronaviruses. Of course the message is distancing and hand washing and masks and everything may stay with us for a long long time - possibly for the foreseeable future - forever?

Time to call it day. Protect the vulnerable and the fearful, watch the ICU numbers but basically snap out of it.

But my granny has 4 months to live what if she get it? Totally not fair that your not thinking of her. I bet you never had a granny.

What?? you want her to spend the rest of her life in isolation? Again not fair, we put her into a nursing home 10 years ago so we could raise our own kids, so now you think she should be Isolated again. What about our fortnightly visits?