Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

Rodney Bathgate

KevRossi wrote: »

Dr Ebun Joseph has set up a new learning institution called the Institute of Antiracism and Black Studies. You can enrol for a course there. As they don't have a premises, they are doing an online open day where you can find out a bit more about the courses and the lecturers. Fair enough, every college and school has one. But she's charging €50 for the privilege of finding out what the course is about. Whatever about anything else, she's certainly raking it in here.

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288388757314469888

Sounds interesting. I might sign up.

Melanchthon

KiKi III wrote: »

You missed my point completely. It was that the manufactured outrage about the statues and the manufactured outrage about the removal of the statues are both entirely irrelevant to most people.

This whole "culture war" thing is getting very boring on all sides.

That's arseways

There was no outrage about the statues ? Like literally none, it wasn't even on the wokies radar and I really doubt any of the African-Irish cared as the statue is of a Numbian that looks like an Egyptian associated with the slaves. Nobody was complaining about it.
Then an American owned company decides to ignore Irish planning laws and remove some nice looking statues that have sat there for 150 years not bothering anybody. Because the world is now apparently the USA.

That's when there was rightly outrage, and now it's been pointed outlets like RTE wheel out the usual heads to make a argument to justify it.

Beechwoodspark

Doc ebun had a little 30 second rant on RTÉ news just now

She is demented

BluePlanet

Who CARES about the statues?
Nobody bar some boardies all knickers in a twist about a big nothing.

weldoninhio

BluePlanet wrote: »

Who CARES about the statues?
Nobody bar some boardies all knickers in a twist about a big nothing.

The Georgian Society of Ireland do.

Still waters

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Doc ebun had a little 30 second rant on RTÉ news just now

She is demented

I saw it as well, she's some fcukin idiot, why do they give these clowns air time

nullzero

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Doc ebun had a little 30 second rant on RTÉ news just now

She is demented

Probably sending her bill into RTE as we speak.

Beechwoodspark

Time for the shelbourne to Restore the statues and fine the hotel heavily as a warning for ignoring Irish planning laws.

And doc ebun can protest there night and day as far as I’m concerned.

Her rant on the news just now was actually disturbing behavior - crosses the line into mental instability.

o1s1n

KiKi III wrote: »

You missed my point completely. It was that the manufactured outrage about the statues and the manufactured outrage about the removal of the statues are both entirely irrelevant to most people.

This whole "culture war" thing is getting very boring on all sides.

A lot of art is irellivent to a lot of people, it doesn't make it unimportant.

Personally I always really liked these statues and always had a look at them whenever I went by. Am particularly shocked over this and it's nothing to do with a 'culture war', something I like had been removed.

nullzero

Still waters wrote: »

I saw it as well, she's some fcukin idiot, why do they give these clowns air time

She looked wound up alright.
It looks like they stopped the clip just before her head exploded.

Yellow_Fern

tayto lover wrote: »

She should be told to shut up or feck off home to Nigeria if she doesn’t like Ireland. Nobody forcing her to stay.

What kills me is that this institute is an institute of black studies and antiracism. Its a bit like making an institute in Boston dedicated to Irish studies and sectarian conflict. Why are those two different issues being welded together? Africa is far more interesting than racism. Further there is no black community. There is an African community and an Afro-Irish and an Nigerian Irish etc community but there is no more a black community then there is a white community or a north American community. The entire mindset is bonkers.

joe40

I would have no objection to removal of statues celebrating people who don't deserve it. Nelson's pillar in Dublin or Colston in Bristol for example.

But these statues did not fall into that category. As far as I know they were not controversial, and no one had a problem with them. It may be a private company that owns the hotel but the building is part of our heritage, I presume statues as well.

They should not have been removed in this way.

RandomName2

DelaneyIn wrote: »

She came her via asylum, got leave to remain, we paid for her to study in Ireland, gave her housing and now she spends her whole day lecturing us on how racist we are. Even ribena is racist to that lunatic.

We should have deported her when she arrived on her bogus asylum claim. It would have saved us a lot of money and headaches. We have literally given her everything and get no thanks for it. The opposite, in fact.

Rececently she was on Newstalk to demand that To kill a mocking bird be taken out of schools. Then said she'd never read it. A real beaut.

I am not sure but I think she was the last generation to use anchor babies to stay. Oh she has something to say about anchor babies (that exploit was removed in the 27th amendment)

In 2004, when we took away the citizenship rights of children who are born to non-Irish parents in Ireland, what we did was create classes of citizenship, categories of citizenship. That's why (racist) people can go out and call us 'paper Irish'. [The 27th Amendment] acknowledges that there are levels of Irish citizenship. That's why even if you have an Irish passport if your name doesn't sound Irish or you have a different skin colour, they can say you're not Irish. Remember the little, black girl who did Irish dancing and they went after her. It's like Africans telling white people you can't rap because we invented rap music. So, Irishness is defined on the basis of whiteness. So, we feel if we’re not white, we can’t be Irish.

Those are words. I read them. I have no idea what the argument is though.

Oh my head hurt reading the following drivel

The way we imagine Ireland is that it was the victim of British colonisation, of the Irish oppression in America, but we stop the history there. We don’t teach our students, our nation, that once Ireland gained independence when we became white and we became white on the backs and the necks of Africans. When we ticked that box of whiteness, we began enjoying our white privileges. Now, when we hear the word white supremacy, we think of KKK. No. White supremacy is when a white person places another white person above a black person: that's what white supremacy is to me. When you think because you're white you're superior, that's what white supremacy is.

In Ireland, we think we can't be racist because we were once discriminated against. We were the oppressed. If you go and read Paula Freire’s Pedagogy of the Oppressed, it says, that when the oppressed is free, if they're not careful, they can become worse than their oppressors. When I tell you that the racism we experience in Ireland is of the worst kind, it is not because we are doing worse things than the rest of the world. No, we are not doing half as much they are doing. It is because, here, we still have to grapple with admitting that we have racism here. Nobody in the US would tell you that there is no racism in their country. In the UK, they agree with you if you talk about their racism. In Ireland, we can't even admit that we have racism.

when Ireland gained independence and we became white

when Ireland gained independence.. and we... became.. white

Does she know anything about Irish history.. sorry I mean her history, given that she's Irish? She says that 1930s Ireland had white privilege and had its boot on the necks of Africans? She sounds like she has unwarranted prejudice against a whole people based upon ignorance and a feeling of inferiority, where this group is stereotyped in order to validate these negative feelings. Perhaps someone with views of this kind should be denied a platform to spread such hate.

Strumms

KiKi III wrote: »

Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

Somebody might have. Me I don’t spend time up around there.



You must have little good to be doing in your life if you can get wound up by a girl, of whatever ethnicity that’s depicting, holding up a light. It’s a bronze statue, of a figure, whose ethnicity is subjective and can’t really be verifiable because of the dark metal.

If I was a regular customer of the hotel, say a business person from Galway who spent 5 days per month on business there, about 60 nights a year, in the hotel. Including food, entertainment, drinks, lodgings, conference facility and so on, I’m spending the best part of 8000-9000 euros per annum per staff member. I’m going to be asking why I’m now giving money to a company who spends revenue removing historic artwork outside of the hotel that’s been enjoyed for generations and has never held any racial overtones. Who is paying ? Every expense and (that job I’m guessing runs into thousands) will be past onto the consumer.

We are in a situation now where people are landing on our shores, not content with a dig out, accommodation, money, safety ... A LIFE... payed for and facilitated by the Irish people... some also want to dictate down to what historic artwork can be on display outside our buildings. Not a great time to be alive.... in THIS country at least... this is only the beginning.

SEPT 23 1989

That "Doctor" of made up bull**** from UCD is doing her cause whatever that is no favours

MLK would be turning in his grave listening to her

imme

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

What kills me is that this institute is an institute of black studies and antiracism. Its a bit like making an institute in Boston dedicated to Irish studies and sectarian conflict. Why are those two different issues being welded together? Africa is far more interesting than racism. Further there is no black community. There is an African community and an Afro-Irish and an Nigerian Irish etc community but there is no more a black community then there is a white community or a north American community. The entire mindset is bonkers.

It is UCD trying to be politically correct, current, international.

Dr Joseph was on radio recently and spoke about a meeting on racism that she held, she said there were no white people there, pretty much because it had nothing to do with them.

She is constantly talking about "we Irish" and "our country".

Becoming Irish, the easiest thing in the world.

Strumms

Becoming Irish easy, being Irish seems to be a tougher ask, for some.

nullzero

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That "Doctor" of made up bull**** from UCD is doing her cause whatever that is no favours

MLK would be turning in his grave listening to her

I'm going to sign up for her course and begin my career as a professional victim any day now(I'm guessing it's a 3 day module at most).

KevRossi

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Doc ebun had a little 30 second rant on RTÉ news just now

She is demented

Saw that alright, seems they showed a clip of a longer rant. I'd say they would have normally dumped it, but felt they had to put her on so as not to be accused of bias.

She was complaining in her Hot Press interview that she had to work 78 hours non-stop to finish her dissertation on time, or else she would be fined, she regards the fine as discriminatory. Yet she charges €50 to attend the open day for her course, which has no affiliation with any registered educational institute. In fact they don't even have a website; just a Gmail address. I wonder how much the course is?

If I dislike something, it's being two faced and having double standards.

SEPT 23 1989

You take somebody into your home who supposedly hasn't an arse in their trousers and then they start roaring abuse at you in the sitting room about the condition of your house

jam_mac_jam

This was done by Americans not immigrants into this country. I doubt many African or Irish people of African decent are particularly bothered.

It's Americans bringing their stupid culture wars over here.

Yyhhuuu

o1s1n wrote: »

A lot of art is irellivent to a lot of people, it doesn't make it unimportant.

Personally I always really liked these statues and always had a look at them whenever I went by. Am particularly shocked over this and it's nothing to do with a 'culture war', something I like had been removed.

I too enjoyed looking at them as I passed and admiring the art deco style glass lights

jam_mac_jam

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

I too enjoyed looking at them as I passed and admiring the art deco style glass lights

Yep. I always liked them. Thought they were Egyptian not Nubian. They suit the building.

CrankyHaus

So is DCC going to enforce planning law or will this corporate desecration of a protected structure fall into the same above-the-law category that the BLM gatherings during lockdown did?

SouthWesterly

Does she realise that they depict black on black slavery.?

nthclare

nullzero wrote: »

I'm going to sign up for her course and begin my career as a professional victim any day now(I'm guessing it's a 3 day module at most).

It'll be easier to get some psychotherapy seriously and dont go for one of those new age SJW therapists.
They'll ruin your life, seriously they're all the same, Anyhow they'll be more messed up than yourself.

Go for an aul fella or old dear who lived a normal life and seen it all, and probably took a few yoks back in their day too, got dirty and went through hard times.

Some of these new age therapists are off the charts, imagine going for help from one of these lol

I dated one one-time who had a PhD in psychology and sociology, she never heard of narcisissim and could of done with a 12 step program,poor crature had a bang of booze off her and a nervous twitch.

I'd pity her supervision.
Had a tattoo done there a few weeks ago by a lady she was in her 40's and herself and her friends hate the PC culture and new wave femminism movement.
The sufregetts were cool and a few after them had their head's screwed on, women deserve equal rights and responsibilities, and equal pay etc

I'd hold a banner for them anyday, but these new wave loonies are trying to emasculate men.
Supposedly in their eye's every man has the potential to undermine the will of a woman.
Bullsh1T I don't think every woman has the potential to undermine a man.
Imagine some dude suggesting anything like that about women, he'd be cancelled and shamed by all the White Knights, they're another bunch of creeps.
A lot of them are just out for the roide, pretending to be all nice and peaceful etc

My apologies for going off the subject matter but I think what I said is related to the Bullsh1T we're experiencing these days....

Pot calling the kettle signing out

Charles Babbage

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

if she was a real scholar but she isnt. I had a stronger CV in the second year of my PhD.

Now, now, the lady has almost 30 citations.

Strumms

Maybe she’ll be off to Paris next, demanding that the Venus Di Milo a statue that was created in 100BC roughly is ninjad from The Louvre and replaced by one of Sidney Poitier.

KiKi III

KiKi III wrote: »

You missed my point completely. It was that the manufactured outrage about the statues and the manufactured outrage about the removal of the statues are both entirely irrelevant to most people.

This whole "culture war" thing is getting very boring on all sides.

Why do you think there would be manufactured outrage about their removal?

It's a pretty wild accusation to make.

MilitaryRoad

If we were to apply the same logic that had these four statues taken down and removed, every single portrait of a baron or a lord up in Dublin Castle would have to be taken down, not on the basis of a difference of colour but on the basis of a difference of nationality which is the exact same thing. The British colonial system was never standing behind the door when it came to standing on the necks of Irish people before Michael Collins got them out of here.


Look back to the famine times, subsequent to that the agrarian injustices across rural Ireland where Catholics were not allowed to own land, only Protestant men were allowed to own land and the Catholics would be evicted if they couldn't pay rent, which led to the creation of the Irish Land League, and of Captain Boycott, and the rest of it. This is all part of our history but we're obsessing over four statues that have stood there for 150 years without offending anyone apart from one woman who appears to be an RTE "black studies" lovvie who is suddenly taking offence at these statutes.


Should we take down the statute of Countess Markievicz up in Stephens Green while we are at it? I'm sure she shot a few Brits dead back in her day. That famine memorial down at the docks, basically a shine to impoverished Irish famine victims who were so starving they were well beneath the rank of a slave, at least a slave got fed, should we remove those too?


Honestly we need to start calling out this absolute and utter nonsense.