Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

The J Stands for Jay

Montage of Feck wrote: »

The statues were hardly there as a celebration of slavery were they now?

They did have gold shackles and chains on their ankles.

Strumms

Extremist views with to the right or left of an argument are toxic, purposeless and when you are that ‘far gone’ to either side you don’t hear or see anything apart from your own viewpoint which is not a reasonable position to find yourself in.

statesaver

Danzy wrote: »

They are highly religious.

The left used be political, it is now a faith.

A cult more like.

punisher5112

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Why bother starting again? The same fu**heads will still exist afterwards.

Oh don't I know it;-)

Rodney Bathgate

punisher5112 wrote: »

Oh don't I know it;-)

Unless we go full on Khmer Rouge Year Zero.

Zebra3

The extremist views are those who don't want to highlight the crimes of slavery and colonialism.

Actually, that's not quite right, highlight the crimes of slavery and colonialism of Germany, but not of Britain and the US.

yourdeadwright

When are we taking the pyramids down there built by slaves,
Its a disgrace I tell you a disgrace

Zebra3

yourdeadwright wrote: »

When are we taking the pyramids down there built by slaves,
Its a disgrace I tell you a disgrace

https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt

Well done. :rolleyes:

hullaballoo

Irish Times reporting that this is being looked at by the Planning Enforcement Division of Dublin City Council because clearly as a listed building any changes to the protected facade including fittings and fixtures would need planning permission.

The planning department are unlikely to accede to the removals given how protective they are even of bog standard iron railings.

keano_afc

Why dont they take some people in from direct provision centres for a few days, just to show how contrite they really are.

NasserShammaz

Green Party MEP Ciarán Cuffe, meanwhile, said that instead of the statues being removed there should have been “a period of public consultation” about it.

Cuffe later apologised saying: “As an urban planner I should know planning can suppress as well as liberate, my bad.”


What a dickhead "my bad" what is he an America high school pupil...

Yellow_Fern

Zebra3 wrote: »

https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt

Well done. :rolleyes:

Ancient Egypt was rife with chattel slaves. Yes the guys who designed the pyramids were not lads in chains being whipped to death but a lot of the wealth of that civilization was generated with stolen labour.

hullaballoo wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that this is being looked at by the Planning Enforcement Division of Dublin City Council because clearly as a listed building any changes to the protected facade including fittings and fixtures would need planning permission.

The planning department are unlikely to accede to the removals given how protective they are even of bog standard iron railings.

We are losing protected heritage all the time. Even the council doesn't respect planning rules. Hope we keep them. Too much of Dublin has been lost. Give Dublin Civic Trust a follow and support our heritage. https://twitter.com/dubcivictrust?lang=en

An art expert on Newstalk speaking about the absurdity of associating "beautiful decorative statues" with the BLM movement or human rights at large. He calls their removal a "regrettable move" and that we'll "end up like the Taliban" if statues continue to be torn down without appreciating their original context. A rational man talking sense, heaven forfend.

ChikiChiki

Sick of this nonsense. Utterly idiotic to remove the statues and the wider attempt to wipe out history.

JimmyVik

The only answer at this stage is to switch off the internet.
Its just full of mobs who want to gang up and bully others.
Switch it off and be done with it. It just enables bullies.

Zebra3

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Ancient Egypt was rife with chattel slaves. Yes the guys who designed the pyramids were not lads in chains being whipped to death but a lot of the wealth of that civilization was generated with stolen labour.

What has that got to do with the claim that the pyramids were built by slaves?

Correct, nothing.

JimmyVik

Zebra3 wrote: »

What has that got to do with the claim that the pyramids were built by slaves?

Correct, nothing.

Did someone say the pyramids werent built by slaves? Surely everyone knows they were.

The Belly

Overheal wrote: »

Like what, leaving Nazi statues in the Berlin city center?

There’s a proper place for history and it’s not always in positions of honor.

Right so better sort out the colosseum in rome cant leave that there given what went on inside it.:rolleyes:

Odhinn

JimmyVik wrote: »

Did someone say the pyramids werent built by slaves? Surely everyone knows they were.

Hollywood gave the notion popularity. The truth is entirely different
https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

JimmyVik

Odhinn wrote: »

Hollywood gave the notion popularity. The truth is entirely different
https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html

There are people who think slaves didnt build the pyramids.
Wow.

tayto lover

hullaballoo wrote: »

Irish Times reporting that this is being looked at by the Planning Enforcement Division of Dublin City Council because clearly as a listed building any changes to the protected facade including fittings and fixtures would need planning permission.

The planning department are unlikely to accede to the removals given how protective they are even of bog standard iron railings.

Ha ha no way will they take on the American owners. We all know that. No way.
Different if your a poor old Paddy though.

Gradius

Some complete randomer calls over to my home and, for some inexplicable reason, I invited them in for a cup of tea just because they asked, that's nice.

If said randomer starts aggressively demanding that I remodel my home to suit them, having been invited in only 5 minutes before, a crippling boot up the hole followed by immediate expulsion is on the cards.

And rightly so.

Who cares if I never moved a certain cup before? So what if I didn't notice it before? Try to throw my property in the bin and you'll know all about it.

KevRossi

Hypothetical question:

This building on Sean McDermott St. used to be a Magdalene Laundry. The site itself has a huge footprint and enquiries have been made before from developers to knock it down and build apartments on it. They tried before and didn't get permission as it's a listed building.

Surely they (or anyone else) can now say that the building is offensive because of it's past and demolish it, thus doing away with the whole 'listed building' status. If the removal of the statues is allowed, then surely anybody can remove whatever they want now? Bertie would cream himself if that happened.

Gradius

KevRossi wrote: »

Hypothetical question:

This building on Sean McDermott St. used to be a Magdalene Laundry. The site itself has a huge footprint and enquiries have been made before from developers to knock it down and build apartments on it. They tried before and didn't get permission as it's a listed building.

Surely they (or anyone else) can now say that the building is offensive because of it's past and demolish it, thus doing away with the whole 'listed building' status. If the removal of the statues is allowed, then surely anybody can remove whatever they want now? Bertie would cream himself if that happened.

I know what you mean, I do.

But this is the wrong way to go about this. Trying to rationalize with irrational people only makes you weaker.

It's very simple. I won't be dictated to by outsiders. That's the end of the story.

If some person wants to live in filth and squalor in their OWN home, let them.

If some person starts ordering me about in MY home, it's just not going to go well. If I like walking around naked in my home screaming, well that's what I'll do, and I won't justify it to anyone else or rationalize it with anyone else.

JupiterKid

The move by the owners and management of the Shelbourne is utterly ridiculous and this “woke” nonsense has gone too far.

I’m delighted that the planning dept of Dublin City Council will be investigating this breach of planning regulations. I would imagine that the Shelbourne will be forced to reinstate the statues.

On a cynical level I can’t help but think that this move was a publicity stunt by the Shelbourne to generate business for the hotel.

nullzero

JupiterKid wrote: »

On a cynical level I can’t help but think that his move was a publicity stunt by the Shelbourne to generate business for the hotel.

They'd have to go fully vegan and recruit a diversity officer before they'd receive custom from the type of clientele removing those statues would attract.

Strumms

JupiterKid wrote: »

The move by the owners and management of the Shelbourne is utterly ridiculous and this “woke” nonsense has gone too far.

I’m delighted that the planning dept of Dublin City Council will be investigating this breach of planning regulations. I would imagine that the Shelbourne will be forced to reinstate the statues.

On a cynical level I can’t help but think that his move was a publicity stunt by the Shelbourne to generate business for the hotel.

You’ll probably just have the planning laws changed to suit this rabble.

RandomName2

JimmyVik wrote: »

There are people who think slaves didnt build the pyramids.
Wow.

Regardless of whether the pyramids of GIza were built by slaves or paid workers, slavery was definitely a significant part of Ancient Egypt, and slaves were used for building massive temples.

Relevant to the Shelbourne Hotel, Nubian slaves were in particular a feature of ancient Egypt. You can see them depicted in the following pieces of art that date from the period.

Kivaro

Anyone want to guess what Irish-hating person jumped on the statue removal bandwagon?

None other but Dr Ebun Joseph, head of black studies at UCD. Of course, it was RTE who immediately ran to her for comment ........... like they do when they generally want to show how racist us white Irish are. She told RTE that "she applauds the Shelbourne Hotel in Dublin for removing the statues from outside its premises."

I wonder if Ebun talked about the existing practice of what the hotel statues depicted, which is the continued slavery of blacks in Africa by other blacks. It has been going on for thousands of years.
Wonder if RTE asked her about it, since it was relevant to the Nubian discussion?
(Please stop laughing out loud at the ludicrous notion of impartial questions by RTE on matters like this.)

Odhinn

Kivaro wrote: »

Anyone want to guess what Irish-hating person jumped on the statue removal bandwagon?

None other but Dr Ebun Joseph, head of black studies at UCD. Of course, it was RTE who immediately ran to her for comment ....

Do you have evidence/quotes from her, showing her to be "Irish-hating"?