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Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

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    #182
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    The lamp standards should have been left were they were.

    They are works of art not cultural expressions.

    All round b lack expert Dr Ebun Joseph was wheeled out by RTE to give her definitive view.

    She will give umar al quadri a run for his money as the go to quick quote person.


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    #183
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

    I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.


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    #184
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

    I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

    They were intrinsic to the facade imo.


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    #185
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Do you have evidence/quotes from her, showing her to be "Irish-hating"?

    Look at her twitter, day in day out criticising our country.

    A country by the way that she came knocking on the door to and begging to be let in.

    Sure they even made up a 100 k a year job for her as well


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    #186
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Look at her twitter, day in day out criticising our country.

    A country by the way that she came knocking on the door to begging to be let in to.

    Sure they even made up a 100 k a year job for her as well

    Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.


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    #187
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

    I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.


    They were impossible not to notice..unless you walk around with head up your arse..seems to be a lot of that around these days.


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    #188
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Political correctness gone mad in my opinion. These statues have been an integral part of the facade of the Shelbourne for over 100 years and are clearly based on Ancient Egyptian artworks. They were created at a time when interest in Ancient Egypt was growing.

    To say they were there as an endorsement of slavery is naive at best.


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    #189
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,413 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

    You're right they should.


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    #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

    I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

    Does anyone "care" about any art or culture on a daily basis? Apathy is the poorest argument I can think of to justify its removal.


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    #191
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

    She came her via asylum, got leave to remain, we paid for her to study in Ireland, gave her housing and now she spends her whole day lecturing us on how racist we are. Even ribena is racist to that lunatic.

    We should have deported her when she arrived on her bogus asylum claim. It would have saved us a lot of money and headaches. We have literally given her everything and get no thanks for it. The opposite, in fact.

    Rececently she was on Newstalk to demand that To kill a mocking bird be taken out of schools. Then said she'd never read it. A real beaut.


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    #192
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    DelaneyIn wrote: »
    She came her via asylum, got leave to remain, we paid for her to study in Ireland, gave her housing and now she spends her whole day lecturing us on how racist we are. Even ribena is racist to that lunatic.

    We should have deported her when she arrived on her bogus asylum claim. It would have saved us a lot of money and headaches. We have literally given her everything and get no thanks for it. The opposite, in fact.

    Rececently she was on Newstalk to demand that To kill a mocking bird be taken out of schools. Then said she'd never read it. A real beaut.

    if she was a real scholar but she isnt. I had a stronger CV in the second year of my PhD.


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    #193
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,948 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

    I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

    The things that you don't notice walking past hundred times everyday could fill volumes.

    Hope the planning dept send them a reprimand and they have to put them back.


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    #194
    Gradius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Did anyone actually care about these statues before the Shelbourne said they were getting rid of them?

    I've walked past the Shelbourne a hundred times and never noticed it. Won't make any difference to my life whatsoever.

    Very silly outlook on life.

    Those books you haven't read in a while? I'm throwing them out.

    That piece of jewellery you wear on special occasions once a decade? Sure you won't mind if I pocket that.

    That spare room you never use? I'll demolish that for you.

    That back seat in the car you used once in your life? I'll be ripping that out.

    That library in laois you've never been to? Bulldozer time.

    Ever been to madagascar or care about it? Well that'll be getting sunk into the Indian ocean, no loss to you.

    The point, in case it escapes you, is that it doesn't matter if you don't care about THAT thing, because eventually they will come for something you DO care about. And it is always about taking away, always. Never an addition.


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    #195
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Hollywood gave the notion popularity. The truth is entirely different
    https://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/who-built-the-pyramids-html
    Most likely it was a mixture of free labourers (the skilled stonemasons, planners and architects) and slaves (doing the lifting and carrying and gruntwork) - the latter would not be mentioned in historical records much


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    #196
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Hypothetical question:

    This building on Sean McDermott St. used to be a Magdalene Laundry. The site itself has a huge footprint and enquiries have been made before from developers to knock it down and build apartments on it. They tried before and didn't get permission as it's a listed building.

    Surely they (or anyone else) can now say that the building is offensive because of it's past and demolish it, thus doing away with the whole 'listed building' status. If the removal of the statues is allowed, then surely anybody can remove whatever they want now? Bertie would cream himself if that happened.

    All the big houses down the country are associated with the exploitation of the Irish people for centuries, so now we can destroy them with impunity. In fact, pretty much every castle or city wall can be tied in with the dispossession and oppression of the indigenous Irish people.

    Lord Shelburne himself inherited huge estates in Co. Kerry, which of course had been seized from the natives in the centuries prior, who were reduced to near-slavery and starvation working to make him rich and powerful. Really the Shelbourne Hotel ought to change its name and stop commemorating our colonial oppressor.


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    #197
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    goose2005 wrote: »
    All the big houses down the country are associated with the exploitation of the Irish people for centuries, so now we can destroy them with impunity. In fact, pretty much every castle or city wall can be tied in with the dispossession and oppression of the indigenous Irish people.

    The people who support this type of thing simply aren't intelligent enough to deal with this type of argument. It's why it's impossible to debate with them.

    They cannot grasp ideas and instead focus solely on events and people. They cannot see a bigger picture of what some event represents or is indicative of and work on it from that angle.

    It's always a simple "I like that specific thing because it aligns with my current beliefs so I support it."

    It is abhorrent to support the removal of statues from the 1800s because you didn't care about them or notice them walking by. The act of removing something requires more caring about a topic than leaving it alone. To justify its removal by saying you don't care is incredible. It's a logical paradox.


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    #198
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,948 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The people who support this type of thing simply aren't intelligent enough to deal with this type of argument. It's why it's impossible to debate with them.

    They cannot grasp ideas and instead focus solely on events and people. They cannot see a bigger picture of what some event represents or is indicative of and work on it from that angle.

    It's always a simple "I like that specific thing because it aligns with my current beliefs so I support it."

    It is abhorrent to support the removal of statues from the 1800s because you didn't care about them or notice them walking by. The act of removing something requires more caring about a topic than leaving it alone. To justify its removal by saying you don't care is incredible. It's a logical paradox.

    I wouldn't waste my time, poster is clearly on the wind up or is some kind of half wit.


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    #199
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Who cares really?

    Sad to see the iconic lamp holders and their slaves go, but who really cares overall.

    I hope the Nubian Female overlords and their slaves from 3k years ago survive somewhere else. This shyte is beyond belief now, but there are forces around that subliminally tell us what is correct from their viewpoint all the time.

    I'm having none of it.


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    #200
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

    Correct. She can feck off back to Nigeria if she thinks Ireland is such a racist dump.


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    #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    I wouldn't waste my time, poster is clearly on the wind up or is some kind of half wit.

    The way I've started dealing with it is by associating posters with people I knew in school, be that good or bad. I have to go back that far to get a broad range of people I can compare them to.

    I've spent far too long thinking people on here were people like myself but just with different viewpoints. They're not.


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    #202
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Dr Ebun Joseph has set up a new learning institution called the Institute of Antiracism and Black Studies. You can enrol for a course there. As they don't have a premises, they are doing an online open day where you can find out a bit more about the courses and the lecturers. Fair enough, every college and school has one. But she's charging €50 for the privilege of finding out what the course is about. Whatever about anything else, she's certainly raking it in here.

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288388757314469888


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    #203
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Gradius wrote: »
    Very silly outlook on life.

    Those books you haven't read in a while? I'm throwing them out.

    That piece of jewellery you wear on special occasions once a decade? Sure you won't mind if I pocket that.

    That spare room you never use? I'll demolish that for you.

    That back seat in the car you used once in your life? I'll be ripping that out.

    That library in laois you've never been to? Bulldozer time.

    Ever been to madagascar or care about it? Well that'll be getting sunk into the Indian ocean, no loss to you.

    The point, in case it escapes you, is that it doesn't matter if you don't care about THAT thing, because eventually they will come for something you DO care about. And it is always about taking away, always. Never an addition.

    You missed my point completely. It was that the manufactured outrage about the statues and the manufactured outrage about the removal of the statues are both entirely irrelevant to most people.

    This whole "culture war" thing is getting very boring on all sides.


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    #204
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Dem foreigners shud be greatful we let dem in in da furst place.

    The same way Irish people who went to other countries had to be grateful?


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    #205
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Dr Ebun Joseph has set up a new learning institution called the Institute of Antiracism and Black Studies. You can enrol for a course there. As they don't have a premises, they are doing an online open day where you can find out a bit more about the courses and the lecturers. Fair enough, every college and school has one. But she's charging €50 for the privilege of finding out what the course is about. Whatever about anything else, she's certainly raking it in here.

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288388757314469888

    Just don't carry a bottle of ribena in with you.


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    #206
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    Correct. She can feck off back to Nigeria if she thinks Ireland is such a racist dump.

    I wonder what the chances are of her running a black studies course in Lagos are...

    Or being paid a Kings ransom to do so.


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    #207
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Does anyone "care" about any art or culture on a daily basis? Apathy is the poorest argument I can think of to justify its removal.

    Yes... lots of people do. That's what makes a piece of art or culture iconic.

    But again, that wasn't my point.


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    #208
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Dr Ebun Joseph has set up a new learning institution called the Institute of Antiracism and Black Studies. You can enrol for a course there. As they don't have a premises, they are doing an online open day where you can find out a bit more about the courses and the lecturers. Fair enough, every college and school has one. But she's charging €50 for the privilege of finding out what the course is about. Whatever about anything else, she's certainly raking it in here.

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1288388757314469888

    She seems to have been successful in carving a niche for herself in Ireland.

    Mainly because as a nation we are placid and tolerant enough and dont mind being labelled as a "racist" society.

    Sure you couldnt be oppossed to the views of such a person, it wouldnt be worth your while and you would only be "proving their point".

    Am I racist? The answer is no.

    However, I do think she is a shouty a$$hole who has benefitted from Ireland due to its bending backwards to not offend. She knows how to play the system.


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    #209
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Look at her twitter, day in day out criticising our country.

    A country by the way that she came knocking on the door to and begging to be let in.

    Sure they even made up a 100 k a year job for her as well

    She should be told to shut up or feck off home to Nigeria if she doesn’t like Ireland. Nobody forcing her to stay.


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    #210
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    The Shelbourne were stupid to make this move. I think all the blame is with them. Absolutely pointless.


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    #211
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Anyone want to guess what Irish-hating person jumped on the statue removal bandwagon?

    None other but Dr Ebun Joseph, head of black studies at UCD. Of course, it was RTE who immediately ran to her for comment ........... like they do when they generally want to show how racist us white Irish are. She told RTE that "she applauds the Shelbourne Hotel in Dublin for removing the statues from outside its premises."

    I wonder if Ebun talked about the existing practice of what the hotel statues depicted, which is the continued slavery of blacks in Africa by other blacks. It has been going on for thousands of years.
    Wonder if RTE asked her about it, since it was relevant to the Nubian discussion?
    (Please stop laughing out loud at the ludicrous notion of impartial questions by RTE on matters like this.)

    Oh that yoke with the book race


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