Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

KevRossi

Also looks like we are racist anyway as our 'system's is racist', so we've lost before we even get started.

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1278593033714442240

jimgoose

KevRossi wrote: »

She posted this about 5 weeks ago; that's when I lost interest in her. She believes that racism was invented by Europeans to subjugate Africans...

Oh Mr. Adegbye is another peach. So wi' pipo invented racism to cushion ourselves against the heartache of being racist towards Africans. :pac::pac::pac:

Tony EH

KevRossi wrote: »

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1276842850899156993

This is just fucking gibberish. There's no other word for it.

Racism existed LONG before Africans were used as slaves by white Europeans. It wasn't "created to justify the European elite’s exploitation, violation and murder of Africans via chattel slavery." at all. It was around centuries before there even was a "European elite" to speak of.

It's just mind numbing reading this tripe.

This is akin to saying that the Nazis "created" antisemitism.

Wibbs

KevRossi wrote: »

She posted this about 5 weeks ago; that's when I lost interest in her. She believes that racism was invented by Europeans to subjugate Africans. Racism exists in every culture and in every ethnic group, in my experience. The idea that one group of people is superior to another existed for thousands of years in Africa before any European ever got there.

She's deluded, shouting so she can be heard to make herself relevant . I just hope the black & African community in Ireland can get some other spokespeople as she will do long term damage to their cause. Racism is an issue here, bu tit needs to be discussed soberly.

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1276842850899156993

Oh it's a total nonsense, even at the fringes it's a half truth. Note one of the Twits that supports her going on about how the Catholic church taught indigenous peoples were soulless therefore... Utter nonsense, though could easily be believed by your average Irish person who understandably today has no time for that institution, with a sideorder of our neighbour's post reformation propaganda. It's bollocks(plus the Atlantic slave trade was far more a mainstream Protestant endeavour).

If you look at the doctrine of discovery from the church, yes it gave carte blanche to the catholic rulers of Europe and their own clergy to take lands as their own. No doubt about that, but at no point did it consider indigenous peoples to be "soulless", without the grace of Christ yes, but that applied to anyone who wasn't of their faith. Their whole thing was to bring people to that grace. That's what they got the gold stars from Jesus for.

Secondly it was religious individuals like Friar Montesino who was in Cuba IIRC who in the late 1400's was publicly denouncing the enslavement and exploitation of the local peoples. Now he at first caught some flak for it and was brought back to Spain, but after a confab with the king of the time, said king saw the truth in the friar's reasoning and drew up one of the first European laws set out to protect the rights of indigenous people's under his crown. Things like protection in law and even - and this is the impressive for the time bit - freedom from forced conversion. In the first decade of the 1500's.

Never mind that there was a papal encyclical(which in layman's terms means read this and obey or you're fcuked) fired out a decade later that directly forbade maltreatment and enslavement of indigenous peoples and if you were caught doing it, this meant excommunication which was a huge deal for a believing Catholic. There was another that shortly followed it that stated quite clearly that all people's no matter where they were from were children in Christ.

Like I said utter bollocks coming from these muppets educated past the redline of their minds. But then again not a shock when their position is more aligned with a religious faith and politic than reason or actual history, because the latter lifts the veil on their false god.

Never mind that as I pointed out earlier some of the biggest middlemen and suppliers to the Atlantic and Arabic slave trade were from western Nigeria. If she hails from that neck of the woods then chances are higher than average that her ancestors either were directly involved, or benefited from that trade. A helluva lot more than Irish people reading her utter scutter, that's for damned sure. Maybe she should be paying reparations to African Americans?

People really need to be informed on this or muppets like her, or more seemingly easy going ones will drive public opinion. Well they give easy answers and the public tend to prefer them.

Wibbs

Tony EH wrote: »

This is just fucking gibberish. There's no other word for it.

Racism existed LONG before Africans were used as slaves by white Europeans. It wasn't "created to justify the European elite’s exploitation, violation and murder of Africans via chattel slavery." at all. It was around centuries before there even was a "European elite" to speak of.

It's just mind numbing reading this tripe.

This is akin to saying that the Nazis "created" antisemitism.

Just remember T, it's the same oppressed/oppressor identity politics credo and they all sing from the same hymn sheet, no matter their positions and no matter how different, "Left" wing, or "Right" wing. It can be summed up in one sentence thusly: [insert oppressed group here] are always agentless victims, and [insert oppressor group here] are always to blame. It works for every single one of these movements throughout history. Hell it even works for the nazis you mentioned. IE: Aryan Germans were always agentless victims and Jews/Bolsheviks were always to blame.

jimgoose

Wibbs wrote: »

...

Whatsoever ye shall do unto one of these, the least of my brethren, that ye shall do unto me.

-- Pie Iesu Domine

Junkyard Tom

gailforecast wrote: »

Dr Joseph ... dismissed the article which explained how the statues didn’t depict slaves, because the author was white and should have no right to speak on such matters

UCD must surely have some sort of code of conduct for its lecturers that she has violated.

Quantum Erasure

Wibbs wrote: »

I like the cover myself as it happens.

I wasn't sure about it myself, took me a while to decide if I liked it or not, but I think the u in labour swings it,

Tony EH

Wibbs wrote: »

Just remember T, it's the same oppressed/oppressor identity politics credo and they all sing from the same hymn sheet, no matter their positions and no matter how different, "Left" wing, or "Right" wing. It can be summed up in one sentence thusly: [insert oppressed group here] are always agentless victims, and [insert oppressor group here] are always to blame. It works for every single one of these movements throughout history. Hell it even works for the nazis you mentioned. IE: Aryan Germans were always agentless victims and Jews/Bolsheviks were always to blame.

Yeh, I don't see any "wings" involved usually. I only see chancers that are trying to dupe the gullible, who will be largely decent folk who want to do the right thing, as it were, but who place import onto people with letters after their names, even if those degrees, masters and doctorates are practically worthless in the real world.

Which brings up a broader issue of just how low the bar has become for attaining such "qualifications" these days. When I was younger, you had to EARN a PHD and many of them had a selection process too. Nowadays, you simply buy one if you have the money, or access to money. I have younger folk coming into me with degrees and masters coming out of their woohoo's, but they're as thick as shit. They don't know their arse from their elbow, but believe themselves to be "educated" and "smart". There are people out there that buy their 12 month masters degree for 7000 (or whatever) and think that they can just walk into a place and start telling everyone what to do. It's hilarious when you see it, and when it's coupled with the sheer arrogance that a lot of folk carry around with them presently, it becomes astonishing.

givyjoe

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh, I don't see any "wings" involved usually. I only see chancers that are trying to dupe the gullible, who will be largely decent folk who want to do the right thing, as it were, but who place import onto people with letters after their names, even if those degrees, masters and doctorates are practically worthless in the real world.

Which brings up a broader issue of just how low the bar has become for attaining such "qualifications" these days. When I was younger, you had to EARN a PHD and many of them had a selection process too. Nowadays, you simply buy one if you have the money, or access to money. I have younger folk coming into me with degrees and masters coming out of their woohoo's, but they're as thick as shit. They don't know their arse from their elbow, but believe themselves to be "educated" and "smart". There are people out there that buy their 12 month masters degree for 7000 (or whatever) and think that they can just walk into a place and start telling everyone what to do. It's hilarious when you see it, and when it's coupled with the sheer arrogance that a lot of folk carry around with them presently, it becomes astonishing.

Sorry, where do you go to buy these degrees? They cost money to enroll sure, but do you actually think there's no work involved to graduate?!

TomTomTim

TheBlackPill wrote: »

EVerybody on this thread should look up critical race theory. It offers absolutely no solutions, just a hierarchy of victimhood, and seeks to find offence even when there is none.

Also, it's the creation of a Neo-Marxist, Herbert Marcuse. A man renowned for his intolerance of others ideas much like all the scholars of the Frankfurt School.

RandomName2

givyjoe wrote: »

Sorry, where do you go to buy these degrees? They cost money to enroll sure, but do you actually think there's no work involved to graduate?!

He's exaggerating, but only slightly.

3rd level has made a name for itself wanting to keep people in the system instead of failing them, particularly if they are non-eu, as this ensures a good revenue stream for them (not that Ebun, in this case, was non-eu given that she got citizenship almost the moment she came to this country).

There's also jobs-for-the-boys mentality at play, whereby you have made up departments, employing people to educate people in made-up subjects, and qualify them using a standard that they themselves are deciding upon. Ebun has perpetuated this mentality by being given free reign to create a Black Studies course, where she can dictate the criteria to determine whether people pass or fail the course.

The criteria for getting a PhD in the makey-upey department that we are considering appears to be: paying several thousand euro a year, saying that white Irish are bad (or more specifically, a racist people in a racist state), and then do that in convoluted prose. My reproach; a correct rendition of my intention wold have been to say that there was a necessity borne that discourse relating to the subject undertaken be relayed in an elevated synthesis of linguistic formulations. This, at least, must have been a challenge for someone who seems to have poor English grammar in general.

Bringing it back to the Shelbourne hotel for a moment (with their problematic black face masks that they wear in front of their universally white faces in their decedent hotel) an impasse seems to have been reached at the moment. Ebun, who never cared about the subject anyway, has moved onto promoting her Black Studies course (where none of the speakers, naturally, are white Irish) and the matter now rests, I suppose, with the planning regulator.

A reasonable question now emerges that if the sculptures were to just go back to the way they were, would the hotel be targeted?

Either way, as Ian O'Doherty says today

When America sneezes, Ireland gets a cold. That's usually employed within a financial and corporate context but, as we have seen in the last few months, it is now equally applicable to social and cultural issues.

gailforecast

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

UCD must surely have some sort of code of conduct for its lecturers that she has violated.

Are you having a laugh? UCD, like most colleges, have tossed aside discourse in any way, shape or form, in order to appear righteous. The imported American attitude rules supreme, which is essentially that whiteys shouldn’t be allowed to engage in dialogue about racism. In adopting this attitude, they’ve given Dr. Joseph free reign to spout whatever racist, vitriolic, evil garbage she wants without any consequences.

Genuinely her Twitter feed is akin to Gemma O’Dohertys. It’s filled with semi-coherent ramblings, and have a definite speak-without-thinking vibe to them. One is rightly lampooned, the other is exalted.

c.p.w.g.w

gailforecast wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? UCD, like most colleges, have tossed aside discourse in any way, shape or form, in order to appear righteous. The imported American attitude rules supreme, which is essentially that whiteys shouldn’t be allowed to engage in dialogue about racism. In adopting this attitude, they’ve given Dr. Joseph free reign to spout whatever racist, vitriolic, evil garbage she wants without any consequences.

Genuinely her Twitter feed is akin to Gemma O’Dohertys. It’s filled with semi-coherent ramblings, and have a definite speak-without-thinking vibe to them. One is rightly lampooned, the other is exalted.

Sure you are aware, any criticism of non white folks is immediately deemed racist...your criticism won't be considered, just deemed racist

CrankyHaus

gailforecast wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? UCD, like most colleges, have tossed aside discourse in any way, shape or form, in order to appear righteous. The imported American attitude rules supreme, which is essentially that whiteys shouldn’t be allowed to engage in dialogue about racism. In adopting this attitude, they’ve given Dr. Joseph free reign to spout whatever racist, vitriolic, evil garbage she wants without any consequences.

Genuinely her Twitter feed is akin to Gemma O’Dohertys. It’s filled with semi-coherent ramblings, and have a definite speak-without-thinking vibe to them. One is rightly lampooned, the other is exalted.

Be interesting to see how this interacts with UCD debasing itself to the Confucius Institute for those sweet sweet Yuan.

Will Tomorrow's "Critical Race Theory Analyses of Neo-Colonialism" quietly ignore the plight of the Uighers, Tibet and African nations under China's influence to keep the Renminbi flowing?

Tired Gardener

RandomName2 wrote: »

Either way, as Ian O'Doherty says today

When America sneezes, Ireland gets a cold. That's usually employed within a financial and corporate context but, as we have seen in the last few months, it is now equally applicable to social and cultural issues

.

That and we'll likely start to feel the impacts of the new cold war America has with China... just hope that doesn't escalate, however if it does I think it will be the thing that deflates a lot of these cultural issues.

Edit, can't believe that I quoted Ian O'Doherty, can't stand the guy.

CrankyHaus

Tired Gardener wrote: »

.

That and we'll likely start to feel the impacts of the new cold war America has with China... just hope that doesn't escalate, however if it does I think it will be the thing that deflates a lot of these cultural issues.

If so, we'll have plenty of experienced witch-hunters able to turn their hand to the Red Scare Part II:



"Are you now, or have you ever been, a state capitalist?"

Tired Gardener

CrankyHaus wrote: »

If so, we'll have plenty of experienced witch-hunters able to turn their hand to the Red Scare Part II:



"Are you now, or have you ever been, a state capitalist?"

We won't get Red Scare Part II, just Nuclear Armageddon the final chapter... In 4D. Then followed by a new series, 'The joys of the Neo-Neolithic'

RandomName2

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Be interesting to see how this interacts with UCD debasing itself to the Confucius Institute for those sweet sweet Yuan.

Will Tomorrow's "Critical Race Theory Analyses of Neo-Colonialism" quietly ignore the plight of the Uighers, Tibet and African nations under China's influence to keep the Renminbi flowing?

Absolutely. It got in hot water recently when it tried to actively change its definition of Academic Freedom, presumably to gag criticism of China

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/concern-over-proposed-changes-to-ucd-s-academic-freedom-1.4225393
https://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/04/we-cant-take-academic-freedom-for-granted-troubling-developments-in-ucd-prove-it/

But Irish wokeness doesn't care about China, because there's nothing about white guilt there. There are no progressive brownie points for talking about something that is not in the West.

UCD meanwhile develops a Social Justice major and has the aforementioned Black Studies module which has the following description:

Across the globe, people of Black African descent stand together in struggles to create a better world. This module will provide students with a theoretically informed understanding of these movements, and historical and contemporary attempts to unsettle whites’ dominance over Blacks. Movements such as the civil rights movements, Black Lives Matter, Black power movements, the arts, literature, scientific inventions, music and the impact of the Black Panther movie will be examined. With increasing interest in Black studies across the world, this module will help non-Blacks comprehend what living as a person of Black African descent can entail.

Depending on where you stand, the number 3 can be perceived as the letter m, w or E. Four different standpoints can be seen from one situation. In this module, you are likely to encounter ideas and perspectives, which may challenge your thoughts, values and present understanding. Although this might sometimes feel uncomfortable, it can also be an exciting opportunity to [..] exposure to other truths. It is important that all students of this module come prepared for exposure to new perspectives which might be challenging [..]. Our voice is one of our biggest assets, so together we will create a safe atmosphere where all views are welcome when spoken in a respective [sic], explorative and inquiring way.

I like the double think of 'safe atmosphere where all views are welcome' by the way. You have to measure out respect and privilege, and balance that out against the merits of having a voice.


I think the capacity for an institution like UCD to actually produce academics who are able to speak about important societal topics with coherence and understanding is diminishing. Soon it will all be Delores Cahills and Ebun Josephs. The best lack all conviction.

I'm actually being unfair on Delores Cahill there. As far as I'm aware her academia actually involves hard science, divorced from any social media appearances she might make. She also isn't invited onto RTE as a spokesperson.

suicide_circus

Any White Women in the thread? You need to read these;

https://www.moneyandmimosas.com/moneymindfulness/how-white-guilt-eliminates-your-ability-to-make-money-in-alignment-with-your-souls-purpose

https://www.moneyandmimosas.com/moneymindfulness//the-five-ways-white-guilt-shows-up-as-a-money-block

ThunbergsAreGo

RandomName2 wrote: »

UCD meanwhile develops a Social Justice major and has the aforementioned Black Studies module which has the following description:

I hope that the inevitable downturn due to COVID 19 at least has the effect of reducing the number of these unemployable degrees designed entirely for academia

Tired Gardener

suicide_circus wrote: »

Any White Women in the thread? You need to read these;

https://www.moneyandmimosas.com/moneymindfulness/how-white-guilt-eliminates-your-ability-to-make-money-in-alignment-with-your-souls-purpose

https://www.moneyandmimosas.com/moneymindfulness//the-five-ways-white-guilt-shows-up-as-a-money-block

Anyone who babbles on as if Astrology is real is a nut bag, those who take it further and work it into their theory are just high on the smell of their own farts.

conorhal

RandomName2 wrote: »

Absolutely. It got in hot water recently when it tried to actively change its definition of Academic Freedom, presumably to gag criticism of China

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/concern-over-proposed-changes-to-ucd-s-academic-freedom-1.4225393
https://www.universitytimes.ie/2020/04/we-cant-take-academic-freedom-for-granted-troubling-developments-in-ucd-prove-it/

But Irish wokeness doesn't care about China, because there's nothing about white guilt there. There are no progressive brownie points for talking about something that is not in the West.

UCD meanwhile develops a Social Justice major and has the aforementioned Black Studies module which has the following description:



I like the double think of 'safe atmosphere where all views are welcome' by the way. You have to measure out respect and privilege, and balance that out against the merits of having a voice.


I think the capacity for an institution like UCD to actually produce academics who are able to speak about important societal topics with coherence and understanding is diminishing. Soon it will all be Delores Cahills and Ebun Josephs. The best lack all conviction.

I'm actually being unfair on Delores Cahill there. As far as I'm aware her academia actually involves hard science, divorced from any social media appearances she might make. She also isn't invited onto RTE as a spokesperson.

This part really stood out...

the arts, literature, scientific inventions, music and the impact of the Black Panther movie will be examined.

:pac: Oh my sides! The list didn't stretch on too long before it ran out of steam and went full 'WAKANDA FOREVER!!'

"And now we'll and watch movies on your college course and discuss the importance of a corportate Disney product based on a comic book created by a couple of white New York jews on the 'black experience'."

#DefundUselessArtsDegrees!

Hector Savage

suicide_circus wrote: »

Any White Women in the thread? You need to read these;

https://www.moneyandmimosas.com/moneymindfulness/how-white-guilt-eliminates-your-ability-to-make-money-in-alignment-with-your-souls-purpose

https://www.moneyandmimosas.com/moneymindfulness//the-five-ways-white-guilt-shows-up-as-a-money-block

Wow mixing white shame/racism nonsense with astrology nonsense - top marks for maxing out the bulshitometer

As stated above, white shame confuses your motivation for success. You falsely believe that the fire you feel from your Mars placement is how you need to earn money. But, instead, it’s the grounding energy of the Moon that needs to be your focus for creating money. In non-astrological terms, it all boils down to knowing yourself. What drives you to succeed? What drives you to push past the obstacles in order to create the life of your dreams?

Hector Savage

From her site ...

If you are a white, or white-passing, woman that benefited from this post, it is in your best interest to compensate me for my labor.

Is this a parody ?

How f*cking racist is she ??? OBSESSED with white.

And what the **** is "white-passing" ???

tayto lover

Nonsense woman makes nonsense statement.

jimgoose

Hector Savage wrote: »

...And what the **** is "white-passing" ???

Someone who, in the words of the great George Carlin, is openly white but happens to be black. Like Colin Powell.

Donald Trump

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

UCD must surely have some sort of code of conduct for its lecturers that she has violated.

She is more than likely not now, or never was, a regular academic staff in UCD.


She may be involved in teaching of some modules here or there but that does not mean she is staff.

I don't know. She may very well be. I am just making the point that you don't need to be staff to do those jobs.

Wibbs

RandomName2 wrote: »

I like the double think of 'safe atmosphere where all views are welcome' by the way. You have to measure out respect and privilege, and balance that out against the merits of having a voice.

Yeah, I'd reckon I'd last 20 seconds, maybe a minute if I aired my views, and they'd be backed up by facts.

SoupMonster

Hector Savage wrote: »

And what the **** is "white-passing" ???

Mariah Carey. Only found out she is black last year.