Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

elli21

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh I think you'll find it is. That's how these things tend to go on discussion forums. To suggest otherwise. Well... at best I would say that's some imagination you have.

So you come into a thread about one pretty clear subject, then litter it with utterly unconnected nonsense about council houses, Black women, 14 hour work shifts and 20 kids and now you're trying to steer it towards racism? You really couldn't make this up, though it does lay bare a certain mindset that's for sure. So, can you construct a relevant post on the actual thread subject, or will we continue to be distracted by wildly off topic random noises?

Correction it's 27 not 20.
sorry I entered a thread and then littered it..must be the acid you claim I'm on..,It's what us Blacks do We litter everywhere

RandomName2

dodderangler wrote: »

Police brutality is probably less than one percent of officers.
More whites are shot by police than poc. More whites are also shot by poc than vice versa.

Okay so this is really outside the scope of this thread, so I'm only going to make passing references to each of these areas.

I personally see the issue with police criminality to be as much a social aspect as racial one, and of course social deprivation is tied to race (either correlation or causation, same difference here).

Per capita african-americans are killed far more than any other demographic.

dodderangler wrote: »

Its a war between both and ill support the police everytime.

It is definitely not a war. You can't have war between the state and its citizens and it is most unhelpful to see it in that light. The police will probably be right most of the time, but the bad apples cast the entire organization in a bad light. If you don't call out the bad ones, you are not only giving them carte blanche, but are letting them tarnish the entire appearance of the organization. Ebun Joseph whatever her name is does not speak for all people belonging to a minority, but she presumes to do so. Not challenging her on her racist BS does more harm to minorities than kicking her, rightfully, to touch.

dodderangler wrote: »

Look at the Americans in a sense that they abuse their freedom and rights and all this crap. Police pulls them over they immediately give the police officer abuse etc. Etc etc.

You are seeing this from a very narrow perspective. The cops in America are heavily armed, paranoid MFs who can kill virtually with impunity. Our cops are like little teddy bears compared to them. The reasons for this are too complicated for a one liner.

dodderangler wrote: »

No need for it. And its not like most of those shot qere innocent either. George floyd was a known criminal.( not saying he deserved to die how he did either btw) the guy in the carpark drunk that was shot after he assaulted police and stole the taser and used it was already up for charges against abusing his wife and kids.

Not saying he deserved to die.. but..

There's no buts. The police straight out murdered George Floyd because they believed that there was an 'active forgery' in progress. That's not defensible. The white guy that was tazered to death last year for running up and down the road on 4th of July didn't deserve to die either. There are plenty of cases of police abusing their power in the US, and the more times that the public witness law enforcement being above the law, the less trust it will have in it.

dodderangler wrote: »

I could go on but I'm sure there is a character count.

There actually isn't on boards, but brevity is better in an unrelated thread anyway.

dodderangler wrote: »

I'm nkt a racist either.

No you don't have to say that.

The people you have to say that for would call you a racist anyway. To quote the racist Ebun, you saying you are not a racist means you are a racist. That's a quote by the way.

I think you're wrong, but that's separate from racism.

dodderangler wrote: »

But blm has gone tok far with the riots and deaths of innocent people
Little children young as 8 been killed by blm

To use your own logic against you, the vast majority of BLM protests have had peaceful protestors.

However in essence I agree with you insofar that I think that it has become distracted from its primary purpose of stopping extrajudicial killing of lower socio-economic individuals (who are more likely than not to be black). Something like the Shelbourne is about as far removed from George Floyd as you can get (some 6000 km for one thing).

elli21

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's a bit of a wishy washy answer. The Madeline McCann thread is about black people in council houses? The Eamonn Ryan thread is about black people in council houses? The live export thread is about black people in council houses?

Hey, maybe they are, but I'm skeptical and not going to do your work for you.

Besides which, why this thread? What has the Shelbourne got to do with black people in council houses?



Never seen you speak out.. you are very vocal. I'm just pointing out the contradiction, I'm not arsed doing anything with it.



How about this? I've asked you for evidence, and you seem utterly unable to provide any. You come along, saying everyone in this thread is complaining about black people in council houses. The moratorium on the bullsh*t is running out.

What is the contents of these bovine droppings?

• Vague generalizations
• Grandstanding
• And calling everyone racist

That's not a conversation. That's just BS.

Oh my"You come along saying everyone in this thread is racist"

never happened and you know it.

that's not a conversation I can have with a liar

RandomName2

elli21 wrote: »

I entered a thread and then littered it..must be the acid you claim I'm on..,It's what us Blacks do We litter everywhere

Oh Jesus would you stop. Nobody gives two shíts that you're black. The faux outrage is wearing.

Wibbs was complaining that you give random statements expressing how offended you are. This is supposed to be a place to discuss things. Instead you come along, loudly shout how you are black and persecuted, and continue to do so when questioned about how you are being persecuted.

Stop making this about your race. You are literally the only person doing that.

Wibbs

elli21 wrote: »

never happened and you know it.

that's not a conversation I can have with a liar

It also never happened that anyone mentioned anything about Black council house demographics in this and practically any other thread and yet here you are. What does that make you then?

RandomName2 wrote: »

Oh Jesus would you stop. Nobody gives two shíts that you're black. The faux outrage is wearing.

Wibbs was complaining that you give random statements expressing how offended you are. This is supposed to be a place to discuss things. Instead you come along, loudly shout how you are black and persecuted, and continue to do so when questioned about how you are being persecuted.

Stop making this about your race. You are literally the only person doing that.

Amazing given this is not facebook, it's largely anonymous, nobody knows who is male, female, Black, White, Gay, Straight, old, young, disabled in some way, vertically or horizontally challenged, whatever unless the person actually tells you. So one can quite freely take any position one likes.

And yet rather than actually engaging cogently from whatever viewpoint they hold, after baiting the thread with wildly random off topic faux outrage nonsense they get called on it and the race card is instantly pulled. That's the all too clumsy plan of course. Shut down any discussion with dog whistling "racism!!" and deflect. There's a pattern here, not unlike a certain Black academic(and I use the term with some trepidation) who pulls the same ballsology.

Welcome to "multicultural" Ireland in the early 21st century folks, and worse this nonsense will get. Our European neighbours have had in many cases decades long experience of this.

dodderangler

RandomName2 wrote: »

Okay so this is really outside the scope of this thread, so I'm only going to make passing references to each of these areas.

I personally see the issue with police criminality to be as much a social aspect as racial one, and of course social deprivation is tied to race (either correlation or causation, same difference here).

Per capita african-americans are killed far more than any other demographic.



It is definitely not a war. You can't have war between the state and its citizens and it is most unhelpful to see it in that light. The police will probably be right most of the time, but the bad apples cast the entire organization in a bad light. If you don't call out the bad ones, you are not only giving them carte blanche, but are letting them tarnish the entire appearance of the organization. Ebun Joseph whatever her name is does not speak for all people belonging to a minority, but she presumes to do so. Not challenging her on her racist BS does more harm to minorities than kicking her, rightfully, to touch.



You are seeing this from a very narrow perspective. The cops in America are heavily armed, paranoid MFs who can kill virtually with impunity. Our cops are like little teddy bears compared to them. The reasons for this are too complicated for a one liner.



Not saying he deserved to die.. but..

There's no buts. The police straight out murdered George Floyd because they believed that there was an 'active forgery' in progress. That's not defensible. The white guy that was tazered to death last year for running up and down the road on 4th of July didn't deserve to die either. There are plenty of cases of police abusing their power in the US, and the more times that the public witness law enforcement being above the law, the less trust it will have in it.



There actually isn't on boards, but brevity is better in an unrelated thread anyway.



No you don't have to say that.

The people you have to say that for would call you a racist anyway. To quote the racist Ebun, you saying you are not a racist means you are a racist. That's a quote by the way.

I think you're wrong, but that's separate from racism.



To use your own logic against you, the vast majority of BLM protests have had peaceful protestors.

However in essence I agree with you insofar that I think that it has become distracted from its primary purpose of stopping extrajudicial killing of lower socio-economic individuals (who are more likely than not to be black). Something like the Shelbourne is about as far removed from George Floyd as you can get (some 2000 km for one thing).

You think im wrong?? Then you are a racist

elli21

Yes Wibbs is right ..be afraid,, be very afraid becuse us blacks are going to takeover and take your women and children

Quantum Erasure

TheCitizen wrote: »

...

That doesn’t mean that BLM is wrong, that doesn’t mean having a debate and then implementing actions re removing or relocating statues or monuments to slave traders or monuments that are racially unsound is now all wrong as the shower thank whore Rightists and boring traditionalists that stink this place out of it are arguing and whining about incessantly. I’ll say it again Give it a rest. I know you won’t though. Wibble Wibble......

Tbh I haven't seen any mention of BLM in this thread before the last couple pages (after your post here), apart from people saying these statues have nothing to do with what BLM are about.,

Are there any legitimate targets for BLM to tear down in Ireland?

Wibbs

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Are there any legitimate targets for BLM to tear down in Ireland?

Some will be provided...

Wibbs

elli21 wrote: »

Yes Wibbs is right ..be afraid,, be very afraid becuse us blacks are going to takeover and take your women and children

Yep because that's obviously what I said... More defection and inane dogwhistling of the usual tired and well trodden tropes in lieu of reasoned argument, an argument you simply can't muster up.

Donald Trump

elli21 wrote: »

Yes Wibbs is right ..be afraid,, be very afraid becuse us blacks are going to takeover and take your women and children

Are your parents not Irish?

Odhinn

elli21 wrote: »

Yes Wibbs is right ..be afraid,, be very afraid becuse us blacks are going to takeover and take your women and children

How much will you pay for the wimminz and children? Asking for a friend.

Rockbeast2

elli21 wrote: »

becuse us blacks are going to takeover

As long as Paul McGrath is the next High King of Ireland, I'm probably not that bothered. In fact, hundreds of thousands of White Irish would happily cheer on that coronation.

Anyhoo, back to The Shelbourne...for those of us that can afford it...

dodderangler

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

As long as Paul McGrath is the next High King of Ireland, I'm probably not that bothered. In fact, hundreds of thousands of White Irish would happily cheer on that coronation.

Anyhoo, back to The Shelbourne...for those of us that can afford it...

No they wouldn't pal. What planet are you on

KevRossi

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Are there any legitimate targets for BLM to tear down in Ireland?

On the basis that art is highly subjective, I've no doubt that anybody, from any ethnic background can go into an art gallery and find offence at something and destroy it.

If we're going along those lines, then surely, I, as an atheist, can bulldoze the Pro-Cathedral, Christchurch, St Patricks, the Clonskeagh Mosque and finish up at the Scientology lads up in Tallaght.

It's all subjective really, and I've absolutely no doubt whatsoever that there are some distasteful statues and pieces of art on public display in a country of 5,000,000 people and of several hundred/thousand ethnic groups. But it's a case of drawing up a reasoned argument with proper evidence, publicising this, campaigning against them, and going through the proper channels to have them removed if they are offensive, not leading an ill informed, ranting witch hunt in the national media.

Incidentally, if you're ethic 'old Irish' and you want to be 'triggered', then I suggest people familiarise themselves with how 'Good King Billy' is portrayed in art (portraits etc.) and see how often you can spot him in various Irish stately homes. It's an amusing pastime.

Rockbeast2

KevRossi wrote: »

On the basis that art is highly subjective, I've no doubt that anybody, from any ethnic background can go into an art gallery and find offence at something and destroy it.

Good post. The one thing that has pleased me recently is that people might realise again how powerful art is/can be.

Symbols and images can inspire or put the fear of god into movements.

They can unite or they can divide.

I've never been afraid of art. There are things I dislike but can appreciate. Everyone should be able to do that.

Burning, desecrating, or removing something that "offends" someone, or allowing that to happen, infantalizes us all.

A piece of art is just a piece of art. Any reaction is, in reality, just a projection from the psyche of the viewer.

Art reveals, it does not project.

sligojoek

KevRossi wrote: »

Incidentally, if you're ethic 'old Irish' and you want to be 'triggered', then I suggest people familiarise themselves with how 'Good King Billy' is portrayed in art (portraits etc.) and see how often you can spot him in various Irish stately homes. It's an amusing pastime.

SOrry to be OT but you reminded me of a bit of "trolling" I did long before it became fashionable.

I was sent to tile a kitchen wall/splashback in a house that was being renovated. The house was adorned with pictures of the royal family, King Billy, union jacks, insignias etc.

My job was to do the walls with random mosaic 50mm tiles in 8 different colours. Three of those colours were green, white and a yellowy / orange colour. I often wonder did they ever notice the four tricolours I strategically placed between the units. One was bang smack in the middle between the cooker and the fan unit.

c.p.w.g.w

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno T. The lunatic minority have spoken and no matter what evidence is put forward, no matter how obviously wrong they are, they won't back off now, if anything they'll double down on the boogyman of "racism" in response to questions and criticism. Or run to "cultural appropriation" of Ancient Egypt. If they're so caught up in this "cultural appropriation" ballsology then they should put their money where their mouths are and dump everything they own that was invented and produced by Europeans and Asians.... Didn't think so.

I can't see the statues going back up now tbh. Not unless Dublin City Council grows a pair and I can't see that happening any time soon. Even if they did go back in, if they're not vandalised by some lunatic or other I'd be shocked. Another win for the Church of Identity Victimhood and like I said a thin end of the wedge for this nonsense.

Also anything that is made in China, as its likely being made in forced work camps by Uyghurs Muslims

MFPM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

i didnt hear it but i just know it was Colette Browne , its the kind of dopey , predictable line from the 2020 feminist handbook , she would smugly trot out

insufferable mediocrity who is never off the air

no doubt she sided with the view of " DR " ebun joseph ?

You're another of the crew here who are alleging she doesn't have a PhD?

gailforecast

MFPM wrote: »

You're another of the crew here who are alleging she doesn't have a PhD?

Nobody is alleging that she doesn’t have a PhD, just that her qualification is in a useless made-up subject.

Also, Dr Joseph is also well known for using her ethnicity as a bulwark for eliminating any argument that she doesn’t agree with. She dismissed the article which explained how the statues didn’t depict slaves, because the author was white and should have no right to speak on such matters.

This is not befitting of someone in academia.

Donald Trump

MFPM wrote: »

You're another of the crew here who are alleging she doesn't have a PhD?

Most PhDs are not referred to as "Dr." outside a strict formal academic setting.....they definitely rarely refer to themselves as "Dr." outside of academia

Gen.Zhukov

I'd be very interested to know why the eminent doctor, who seems to insist that she is referred to as Doctor, decided/was advised to drop the Dr from her recent novel.

Donald Trump

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

I'd be very interested to know why the eminent doctor, who seems to insist that she is referred to as Doctor, decided/was advised to drop the Dr from her recent novel.

It's not done in practice. The editors/publishers of the book would have insisted that it isn't included



I don't think that I have a book where the either "Dr." or "Ph.D." is attached to the cover. Occasionally there is a sleeve note which might give you a bit of a bio which says the author did a PhD in XYZ and worked in ABD and DEF for whatever years. Most of the books that I have here are academic or technical books written either by academics, or practitioners with PhDs. But they don't need to advertise it on the cover.

sligojoek

I had a teacher who signed his cheques, "Martin Ryan BA".

Donald Trump

sligojoek wrote: »

I had a teacher who signed his cheques, "Martin Ryan BA".

That's exactly it. If you are depending on your title for something, then there is something lacking there.


Now, if you are are to teach a course at a university and you have a PhD, they will put your name and title "Dr." on the course page of course. That's fine because that is the appropriate setting and it is relevant there.


I have taught courses at third level in the past. I don't put either "Dr." or "PhD" anywhere on any of my notes. Load of bollix.


I don't have either included in my linkedin title either - although you do see that a little bit more frequently - but again, usually non academics. I mean I have it listed under education, but that's where it is supposed to be.



(I'm not an academic btw).

RandomName2

Donald Trump wrote: »

(I'm not an academic btw).

No, you're the POTUS

Donald Trump

RandomName2 wrote: »

No, you're the POTUS

When you have an uncle who was a professor at MIT, you understand these things.

Hector Savage

So is @elli21 black or what's the story ?

Yellow_Fern

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

I'd be very interested to know why the eminent doctor, who seems to insist that she is referred to as Doctor, decided/was advised to drop the Dr from her recent novel.

I think its the norm in Ireland and the UK. I know you have presented differently in some popular books in the US. They might show it Adam Murphy, PhD. Also in some countries some PhDs are not recognised as a doctorate so a PhD isnt always a Dr. Academics are a laid back bunch and essential never use the title apart from introducing colleagues in academic lectures. However there was a campaign for female academics to add Dr. to their Twitter profiles.

MFPM

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

I'd be very interested to know why the eminent doctor, who seems to insist that she is referred to as Doctor, decided/was advised to drop the Dr from her recent novel.

Academics in the main don't use their titles on publications, so she didn't decide or need advise on it, pity you didn't check that before posting.