Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

KaneToad

MFPM wrote: »

It was Collete Browne and she was spot on - Farrell told her she wasn't a barrister and didn't understand the law and then he also not a barrister decided to explain.

But why did she bring gender into it?
Farrell may have known more about the topic.
Farrell may be a patronising ar$e.

Either way it's not a gender issue. It's the Ali G level of debating. It reflected badly on her, in my opinion.

Wibbs

elli21 wrote: »

Strange that the rest of the forum knows what I speack about but you fail to comprehend

Eh nobody but you has a clue why you're bringing council houses and all sorts of other unrelated stuff into a thread about statues outside the Shelbourne hotel. You are the only poster who has mentioned council houses and those who live in them.

elli21 wrote: »

Yeah no agenda there to presume I must be on acid.Finished a 14 hr shift in a care home

Which again is entirely unrelated to this thread.

Wibbs

MFPM wrote: »

Yep, still doesn't make it right!

So the democratic wishes of the Irish people mean nada? Unless they happen to agree with you of course. So democracy is fine so long as it aligns with your beliefs? Riiiight.

No need, it's inevitable the legislation will be changed without recouse to referendum.

Again you're quite open about being happy to subvert the democratic wishes of the Irish electorate when it suits? Unless they vote the "correct" way, your way? Oh I have your position's measure now alright.

Oh and I seriously doubt the legislation will be changed back. If it were it would be completely out of step with every other EU jurisdiction, as it was originally. Secondly the right of citizenship would almost certainly be put to the people as it already was as it's a constitutional matter. Though no doubt you'd be happy to subvert that too because it's not correctthink.

This folks is a perfect example of the hardline thinking and it's an odious position regardless of the polarity of the politic.

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’ve said what I wanted to say on this.

I’ve been busy and after checking back in I can see the same cabal rehashing and regurgitating the same arguments over and over and thanking each other. Your one the Doctor has put her foot in it and come across ill informed but the usual lot on here really have taken that opportunity to go to town on her and by extension anything else that is described as Woke that they really really hate.

The circle jerk is on rapid mode. If it wasn’t for me and one or two others the echo chamber would be complete on here and you’d end up just wibbling away into obscurity. You should be “Thanking” me for doing yis a service. LOL.

So again, you have nothing? You're still rattling out the same old song rather than taking points raised and defending your position on them. Like I noted earlier this "left(though it's not in many ways)/right on/"progressive"/whatever you're having yourself position is based more on articles of faith and/or naivete rather than cogent arguments. To a scary degree. And like that Twitter poster said it smacks very much of the listen to your betters and vote accordingly of old Catholic Ireland than a political or philosophical stance. And like them is worryingly dictatorial. Only the pulpit has changed.

Tony EH

KaneToad wrote: »

Either way it's not a gender issue. It's the Ali G level of debating. It reflected badly on her, in my opinion.

She's usually much better than that.

But it's a problem inherent with all of these nouveaux catchphrases that spew themselves forth from America, like "mansplaining" or "white privilege". For some people they become a very easy to go to.

In the end, they usually just become a flat way of saying "shut up" to someone, without resorting to actually saying "shut up".

SoupMonster

RandomName2 wrote: »

It's like the far-right protesting in front of the Dail the other week against the Green minister. They were pretending they were doing it because of their concern for child safety. Me arse. They were doing it to get attention, and hey, they were successful in that endeavor.

Really. So the Green Minister is not going to try to make schools into trans induction centres. Excellent!

TheCitizen

Wibbs wrote: »

So again, you have nothing? You're still rattling out the same old song rather than taking points raised and defending your position on them. Like I noted earlier this "left(though it's not in many ways)/right on/"progressive"/whatever you're having yourself position is based more on articles of faith and/or naivete rather than cogent arguments. To a scary degree. And like that Twitter poster said it smacks very much of the listen to your betters and vote accordingly of old Catholic Ireland than a political or philosophical stance. And like them is worryingly dictatorial. Only the pulpit has changed.

No mate, read it again; I said I’ve already said what I wanted to say on the matter. I think the woman Dr Ebun here has left herself open to criticism, the thing is McDowell came across as the complete and utter chancer that he is as well but he gets a bye from the whining rightists on here. I also think in this particular instance it may have been a mistake to remove these statues but really who gives a fúck. They can put it back if they want and explain their reasons for it.

That doesn’t mean that BLM is wrong, that doesn’t mean having a debate and then implementing actions re removing or relocating statues or monuments to slave traders or monuments that are racially unsound is now all wrong as the shower thank whore Rightists and boring traditionalists that stink this place out of it are arguing and whining about incessantly. I’ll say it again Give it a rest. I know you won’t though. Wibble Wibble......

elli21

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh nobody but you has a clue why you're bringing council houses and all sorts of other unrelated stuff into a thread about statues outside the Shelbourne hotel. You are the only poster who has mentioned council houses and those who live in them.

Which again is entirely unrelated to this thread. [/QUOj

keep clutching your pearls ..as a black woman I see what is going on here

"The only poster"
:pac::pac:

Mad_maxx

Tony EH wrote: »

She's usually much better than that.

But it's a problem inherent with all of these nouveaux catchphrases that spew themselves forth from America, like "mansplaining" or "white privilege". For some people they become a very easy to go to.

In the end, they usually just become a flat way of saying "shut up" to someone, without resorting to actually saying "shut up".

she's absolutely not any better than that, you can always predict her view's on any given topic or story

Rock solid predictable by the number's PC hack

suicide_circus

elli21 wrote: »

keep clutching your pearls ..as a black woman I see what is going on here

"The only poster"
:pac::pac:

Sorry to burst your bubble but i'm currently identifying as a trans-abled non binary woman of colour (pronouns Zig/Zag) so i'll be calling the shots around here, thanks very much.

RandomName2

elli21 wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh nobody but you has a clue why you're bringing council houses and all sorts of other unrelated stuff into a thread about statues outside the Shelbourne hotel. You are the only poster who has mentioned council houses and those who live in them.

Which again is entirely unrelated to this thread.

keep clutching your pearls ..as a black woman I see what is going on here

"The only poster"
:pac::pac:

Why has your skin color or gender have anything to do with what anybody is saying here?

You claim that we are all racists (at least I think you are, you aren't very clear, but that's the impression I get, otherwise why would you be talking about race in all your posts?).

Your proof of this is that there's all this talk about Blacks in council houses? Again you aren't being very clear, but I assume you are trying to say that there's a lot of people here complaining about council houses being given to blacks?

I haven't looked into allocation of council housing, and have no idea whether there is racial bias in terms of its allocation, whether there are complaints of such, or any other matter that has a direct bearing on the above.

Council housing has been mentioned a total of 5 times in this thread. Each time it was by yourself or by someone replying to you. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself

https://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=council%20house&thread=2058100161

Council housing has no bearing on the current conversation and I don't intend engaging with it. You live in a council house? Okay. I don't really care.

In fact the only black person who is being 'attacked' here does not live in a council house, but instead is a professor and media pundit. She is not being attacked because she is black, but because she is saying that the statues in front of the Shelbourne are symptomatic of the systemic racism of Ireland and the Irish. She has provided scant evidence for this, despite being invited to, but feels instead that the fact that she is a black woman should negate any need for evidence.

So I put it to you. You say that this thread has shown systemic racism. You are free to prove it. You do not get a free pass because of your skin color. I am an equal opportunities bollocker. If people talk crap I'll call them out on it, I don't give a hoot if you are black, white, blue, or green, if you are a man, or a woman, young, or old. I don't think any of these properties provides magical powers of truth telling.

Wibbs

elli21 wrote: »

keep clutching your pearls ..as a black woman I see what is going on here

"The only poster"
:pac::pac:

Eh yes. You're the only poster who has mentioned and has some weird obsession with council housing(and loads of kids and fathers and shifts in care homes..) in a thread about 19th century Egyptian revival statues and the reasons and debate around their removal. Search the thread. Other than yourself, the only times council is mentioned is in relation to Dublin City Council and planning and permission regarding changing protected structures in the city. Quite understandably as the removal of these statues is the subject of the thread. Read the title. It's there in plain English.

"As a Black woman", whatever the hell that means by way of argument? It certainly lends no authority and your confusion about the nature of the subject matter we're discussing does you no favours and it seems you are imagining things for some peculiar reason.

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

Why has your skin color or gender have anything to do with what anybody is saying here?

You claim that we are all racists (at least I think you are, you aren't very clear, but that's the impression I get, otherwise why would you be talking about race in all your posts?).

Your proof of this is that there's all this talk about Blacks in council houses? Again you aren't being very clear, but I assume you are trying to say that there's a lot of people here complaining about council houses being given to blacks?

I haven't looked into allocation of council housing, and have no idea whether there is racial bias in terms of its allocation, whether there are complaints of such, or any other matter that has a direct bearing on the above.

Council housing has been mentioned a total of 5 times in this thread. Each time it was by yourself or by someone replying to you. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself

https://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=council%20house&thread=2058100161

Council housing has no bearing on the current conversation and I don't intend engaging with it. You live in a council house? Okay. I don't really care.

In fact the only black person who is being 'attacked' here does not live in a council house, but instead is a professor and media pundit. She is not being attacked because she is black, but because she is saying that the statues in front of the Shelbourne are symptomatic of the systemic racism of Ireland and the Irish. She has provided scant evidence for this, despite being invited to, but feels instead that the fact that she is a black woman should negate any need for evidence.

So I put it to you. You say that this thread has shown systemic racism. You are free to prove it. You do not get a free pass because of your skin color. I am an equal opportunities bollocker. If people talk crap I'll call them out on it, I don't give a hoot if you are black, white, blue, or green, if you are a man, or a woman, young, or old. I don't think any of these properties provides magical powers of truth telling.

You’re a bollocker alright and another thing that sounds like it LOL

RandomName2

sabat wrote: »

You have it the wrong way around-you're the extremist wing trapped in an echo chamber gazing at the normal reasonable people.

I agree with the spirit of this but I want to clarify that TheCitizen doesn't come across as an extremist himself (I don't think that's what you're saying but it could be misinterpreted as such).

I also don't think that the majority of people who are saying that the Shelbourne statues should be taken down are extremists (not that anybody was saying that they should be taken down up until two weeks ago, they aren't exactly controversial). The people leading the pack are probably extremists, but I think the rest of them are probably just casual bandwagoners.

The Citizen is deliberately positioning himself in the opposing camp, which is a position that I think is virtually impossible to win. My only complaint about his posting style is his arch 'all you right wing whingers' 'lol look at all the alt-rights' 'rofl it is really getting extremist in here' , which is tiresome, juvenile, and, stripped of its political platforming, is just saying 'look at the big doo-doo faces'.

However he doesn't straight up ignore what people are saying, unlike MFPM (with the interminable multi quotes), or going on the random tangents of elli21. To that end he is the nearest thing to the only voice of reason from his side of the debate (a side I'm not sure he is in fact convinced by.. I'm not actually sure anyone opposed to the Shelbourne statues are convinced of their own position).

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

I agree with the spirit of this but I want to clarify that TheCitizen doesn't come across as an extremist himself (I don't think that's what you're saying but it could be misinterpreted as such).

I also don't think that the majority of people who are saying that the Shelbourne statues should be taken down are extremists (not that anybody was saying that they should be taken down up until two weeks ago, they aren't exactly controversial). The people leading the pack are probably extremists, but I think the rest of them are probably just casual bandwagoners.

The Citizen is deliberately positioning himself in the opposing camp, which is a position that I think is virtually impossible to win. My only complaint about his posting style is his arch 'all you right wing whingers' 'lol look at all the alt-rights' 'rofl it is really getting extremist in here' , which is tiresome, juvenile, and, stripped of its political platforming, is just saying 'look at the big doo-doo faces'.

However he doesn't straight up ignore what people are saying, unlike MFPM (with the interminable multi quotes), or going on the random tangents of elli21. To that end he is the nearest thing to the only voice of reason from his side of the debate (a side I'm not sure he is in fact convinced by.. I'm not actually sure anyone opposed to the Shelbourne statues are convinced of their own position).

Well if you read above you’ll see that I think they may have made a mistake in this particular instance, however that doesn’t mean that BLM is wrong or relocating monuments that are racially unsound is wrong.

RandomName2

TheCitizen wrote: »

Well if you read above you’ll see that I think they may have made a mistake in this particular instance, however that doesn’t mean that BLM is wrong or relocating monuments that are racially unsound is wrong.

Is anybody here saying that BLM is wrong? I have always said that the police in America should be held accountable for their crimes, and until you have equality of treatment by law enforcement you are not going to have a just or stable society.

dodderangler

suicide_circus wrote: »

elli21 wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble but i'm currently identifying as a trans-abled non binary woman of colour (pronouns Zig/Zag) so i'll be calling the shots around here, thanks very much.

Well I identify as a bubble and I find your post racist so give me money ir I'll go to the tabloids. My father identifies as a tabloid btw

dodderangler

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is anybody here saying that BLM is wrong? I have always said that the police in America should be held accountable for their crimes, and until you have equality of treatment by law enforcement you are not going to have a just or stable society.

it is wrong. Everything about it is wrong!

RandomName2

dodderangler wrote: »

it is wrong. Everything about it is wrong!

Charles Babbage

Strumms wrote: »

The best thing you can do with these types is deny them the oxygen. Drives them crazy, then when they get all upset and frustrated their true colors and motivation shows.

Also, if I’m a businessman who say was based in Galway, came to Dublin monthly, splashing out on a nice room in a certain hotel... I might say on principal ... “ ok, heard good things about the Westin in Westmorland St actually, I’ll relocate.“

The Westin or Merrion should run an ad saying we are not only Ireland's top hotel but we also comply with the planning regulations.

markodaly

MFPM wrote: »

Yep, still doesn't make it right!

What is 'right' is subjective.

You may think abortion is murder and Gay marriage an abomination. Its a free country and off with you to think those things. However, the state has to leglistate on these matters and thus referendums have:
a) Allowed same sex marriage
b) Allows aborition


Therefore, in the eyes of the state, and the peoples eyes who voted on the matter via their democratic right and franchise collectively thought that those two things were 'right.


Similar to the vote in 2004. You can think what you want about but, you are in the minority and thus the will of the people in this case overrides your sense of righteous.

Again, you are free to think 80% of the people are wrong, away with you to campaign to have that amendment reversed, but until then suck it, accept the will of the people and move on.

dodderangler

RandomName2 wrote: »

Police brutality is probably less than one percent of officers.
More whites are shot by police than poc. More whites are also shot by poc than vice versa.
Poc make up 68 percent of prison inmates yet theyre only 21 % of the population. Drug gangs, murders etc van you blame police for being on the edge woth alot of them. Over 30 something police killed by civilians in america and only 2 were not shot by poc.
Its a war between both and ill support the police everytime. Look at the Americans in a sense that they abuse their freedom and rights and all this crap. Police pulls them over they immediately give the police officer abuse etc. Etc etc.
No need for it. And its not like most of those shot qere innocent either. George floyd was a known criminal.( not saying he deserved to die how he did either btw) the guy in the carpark drunk that was shot after he assaulted police and stole the taser and used it was already up for charges against abusing his wife and kids. I could go on but I'm sure there is a character count.
I'm nkt a racist either. I hate everyone depending on the first time i meet them. But blm has gone tok far with the riots and deaths of innocent people
Little children young as 8 been killed by blm

elli21

dodderangler wrote: »

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well I identify as a bubble and I find your post racist so give me money ir I'll go to the tabloids. My father identifies as a tabloid btw

Ok you want Folk to see you as a bubble and your farther as a tabloid...Cant help you there lad apart from seek help

elli21

RandomName2 wrote: »

Of the current 19 threads on this forum:

4 are about US politics (one of which features BLM)
3 are about Irish politics (SF, FG, and GP respectively)
2 are talking about big tech
2 are talking about child abduction/molestation
2 are talking about white women getting pilloried for acting like idiots online (Gemma O'Doherty and JK Rowling)
1 about gangland violence
1 about Brexit
1 about the rape of a woman with Altzeimers by a black guy
1 about revocation of citizenship relating to crime (somewhat related to the one above)
1 about live exports
and this thread

Yup, Council house's. Could we just not talk about them for two minutes like.

Also is that (blacks in council houses), (black and council houses), or (blacks, and council houses) that you are talking about? Because I've seen no mention of black council houses, or blacks in council houses at all.

I'm not really sure what this has to do with the Shelbourne.



I dunno, the rhyme cheered me up anyway.

True they are the thread tites ..but delve into them and that is not what is disscused

elli21

RandomName2 wrote: »

Why has your skin color or gender have anything to do with what anybody is saying here?

You claim that we are all racists (at least I think you are, you aren't very clear, but that's the impression I get, otherwise why would you be talking about race in all your posts?).

Your proof of this is that there's all this talk about Blacks in council houses? Again you aren't being very clear, but I assume you are trying to say that there's a lot of people here complaining about council houses being given to blacks?

I haven't looked into allocation of council housing, and have no idea whether there is racial bias in terms of its allocation, whether there are complaints of such, or any other matter that has a direct bearing on the above.

Council housing has been mentioned a total of 5 times in this thread. Each time it was by yourself or by someone replying to you. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself

https://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=council%20house&thread=2058100161

Council housing has no bearing on the current conversation and I don't intend engaging with it. You live in a council house? Okay. I don't really care.

In fact the only black person who is being 'attacked' here does not live in a council house, but instead is a professor and media pundit. She is not being attacked because she is black, but because she is saying that the statues in front of the Shelbourne are symptomatic of the systemic racism of Ireland and the Irish. She has provided scant evidence for this, despite being invited to, but feels instead that the fact that she is a black woman should negate any need for evidence.

So I put it to you. You say that this thread has shown systemic racism. You are free to prove it. You do not get a free pass because of your skin color. I am an equal opportunities bollocker. If people talk crap I'll call them out on it, I don't give a hoot if you are black, white, blue, or green, if you are a man, or a woman, young, or old. I don't think any of these properties provides magical powers of truth telling.

BS when folk talk crap about us radio silence,,,,never seen you speak out like you claim t o be..mind you are very vocal now

TheCitizen

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is anybody here saying that BLM is wrong? I have always said that the police in America should be held accountable for their crimes, and until you have equality of treatment by law enforcement you are not going to have a just or stable society.

I think there are some on here that are exploiting this shelbourne hotel statues thing and your one that appeared on Prime Time as an opportunity to attack anything and everything that comes under the term “woke”. The thread is riddled with it.

elli21

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble but i'm currently identifying as a trans-abled non binary woman of colour (pronouns Zig/Zag) so i'll be calling the shots around here, thanks very much.

Cool..I'm still a black woman

Wibbs

elli21 wrote: »

True they are the thread tites ..but delve into them and that is not what is disscused

Eh I think you'll find it is. That's how these things tend to go on discussion forums. To suggest otherwise. Well... at best I would say that's some imagination you have.

elli21 wrote: »

BS when folk talk crap about us radio silence,,,,never seen you speak out like you claim t o be..mind you are very vocal now

So you come into a thread about one pretty clear subject, then litter it with utterly unconnected nonsense about council houses, Black women, 14 hour work shifts and 20 kids and now you're trying to steer it towards racism? You really couldn't make this up, though it does lay bare a certain mindset that's for sure. So, can you construct a relevant post on the actual thread subject, or will we continue to be distracted by wildly off topic random noises?

Treppen

Anyhow I think they're not slaves now but princesses

Wibbs

Treppen wrote: »

Anyhow I think they're not slaves now but princesses

I dunno T. The lunatic minority have spoken and no matter what evidence is put forward, no matter how obviously wrong they are, they won't back off now, if anything they'll double down on the boogyman of "racism" in response to questions and criticism. Or run to "cultural appropriation" of Ancient Egypt. If they're so caught up in this "cultural appropriation" ballsology then they should put their money where their mouths are and dump everything they own that was invented and produced by Europeans and Asians.... Didn't think so.

I can't see the statues going back up now tbh. Not unless Dublin City Council grows a pair and I can't see that happening any time soon. Even if they did go back in, if they're not vandalised by some lunatic or other I'd be shocked. Another win for the Church of Identity Victimhood and like I said a thin end of the wedge for this nonsense.

RandomName2

elli21 wrote: »

True they are the thread tites ..but delve into them and that is not what is disscused

That's a bit of a wishy washy answer. The Madeline McCann thread is about black people in council houses? The Eamonn Ryan thread is about black people in council houses? The live export thread is about black people in council houses?

Hey, maybe they are, but I'm skeptical and not going to do your work for you.

Besides which, why this thread? What has the Shelbourne got to do with black people in council houses?

elli21 wrote: »

BS when folk talk crap about us radio silence,,,,never seen you speak out like you claim t o be..mind you are very vocal now

Never seen you speak out.. you are very vocal. I'm just pointing out the contradiction, I'm not arsed doing anything with it.



How about this? I've asked you for evidence, and you seem utterly unable to provide any. You come along, saying everyone in this thread is complaining about black people in council houses. The moratorium on the bullsh*t is running out.

What is the contents of these bovine droppings?

• Vague generalizations
• Grandstanding
• And calling everyone racist

That's not a conversation. That's just BS.