Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

El_Duderino 09

Shane Driscoll wrote: »

My body my choice pal. Get the vaccine if you wish, I won't. And plenty of people feel the same.

Strange, I agree that the elderly should get vaccinated since they're the ones at risk, but that's not enough for you, is it?

I'll ask you the same as everyone else, why don't we have the same hysteria as the flu vaccine?

Lol. I haven’t challenged whether you have the choice. I haven’t suggested you change your mind or do anything you don’t want to do. Not sure why you keep telling me what your choice is.

Your choice is the one that will prolong the whole process, lengthen the reopening, make lockdowns and restrictions more likely next winter and make it harder to reopen pubs and other hospitality.

Im not telling you what to do (not sure why I have to tell you that in every post). I’m using you an example of the attitude that will make the the restrictions last longer than they need to.

Shane Driscoll

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol. I haven’t challenged whether you have the choice. I haven’t suggested you change your mind or do anything you don’t want to do. Not sure why you keep telling me what your choice is.

Your choice is the one that will prolong the whole process, lengthen the reopening, make lockdowns and restrictions more likely next winter and make it harder to reopen pubs and other hospitality.

Im not telling you what to do (not sure why I have to tell you that in every post). I’m using you an example of the attitude that will make the the restrictions last longer than they need to.

But the vaccines are safe and effective? How on earth will I be prolonging the pandemic when all the vulnerable people are vaccinated?

HeidiHeidi

Shane Driscoll wrote: »

Have you spent the entire pandemic in your room, living in fear? Hope not. You probably did what everyone did and went to pubs and restaurants when they were open. Which is strange, I mean it's such a terrible killer virus, why was anything open?

You've spent a year plugged into the doomer media and it's showing.

Ah, resorting to hyperbole as a last resort?


I've spent the entire pandemic going out to work in an essential role, was in a pub precisely once since last March, no restaurants, have made huge efforts to limit my contacts as that's how the very contagious virus spreads, and am waiting on when I get offered the vaccine.



In otherwords, being an adult about it.


And now you're going on ignore.

doublejobbing 2

Coybig_ wrote: »

Many of these were abroad on work. They had no option but to come home, they had no place of residence in the UK and to expect them to remain apart from families for potentially months or longer is madness. Your hysterical ramblings are not based in reality.

A tiny proportion of those who returned were not UK residents. And they should have been subject to mandatory quarantine and testing.

Virtually every country in the world experienced a rise in cases over the Christmas period due a combination of or all of: increased socialisation, harsher weather, a dropping of the guard prompted by the good news of the vaccines.

We would have experienced a brief upswing.

We would now be seeing circa 200 cases per day. Possibly less.

You are plucking random figures out of your ar*e, there is literally nothing to say what the number would have been without the existence of this UK variant,

It would be a minimum of 75% lower, as 75% of current cases are of a variant that all bu didn't exist in Ireland prior to the weeks leading to Christmas. That is senior infants level maths.

which could not be stopped anyway due to the existence of a land border with Northern Ireland which must remain open. And all the other reasons which have been listed on here about 600 times.

You do know that the UK variant is also known as the Kent variant? As it emerged in Kent, in the London region. UK variant doesn't mean it was native to Fermanagh and Armagh.

The Northern border argument is the laziest one going. We have effectively sealed the border between Dublin and Wicklow but we can't seal it with the North?

The only thing you have made clear is the fact that you havent the faintest clue.

I'd swear you were Simon Harris. FG fan fiction of the highest tier.


Put simply- 75% plus of our post Christmas Covid cases originated in the South East of England.

This variant all but didn't exist in Ireland prior to the Christmas run in.

If the points of entry had been shut, this variant would never have gained a serious foothold.

Mehole leaving the ports open has by the looks of things set us back until as long as May.

doublejobbing 2

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9226083/Sports-outdoor-socialising-open-air-markets-activities-green-lit-ministers.html

Boris planning to release a plan for society, including pubs, to re open by Feb 22nd.

General thinking is that it should be done once all vulnerable and over 50's are done, by some point in May.

Our target for the sick and over 55's is the end of June, yet some seem to be hinting that pubs aren't a goer til everyone is vaccinated by September? Some lockdown fan even claiming full vaccnation alone won't be the time.

Defies logic. Either way, I'll be heading to Belfast, Newry etc a good bit if they open first.

RocketRaccoon

I genuinely cannot get my head around the fascination with having pubs open, I've posted in this thread a few times and it's just mind boggling.

The only people who should be crying out for them to open are the staff who are currently down money due to them being closed. Anyone else who is still complaining seriously needs to seek an AA meeting.

dominatinMC

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I genuinely cannot get my head around the fascination with having pubs open, I've posted in this thread a few times and it's just mind boggling.

The only people who should be crying out for them to open are the staff who are currently down money due to them being closed. Anyone else who is still complaining seriously needs to seek an AA meeting.

I think it is more to do with pubs being a symbol of normal life. They are intrinsic to everyday life in Ireland, and people long for that normality to return. Now I know this is a pubs thread, but I think a lot of the posters here are projecting their feelings about wider society. Not just pubs. Well, that's my take on it anyway.

Loafing Oaf

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Once 70-80% of over 70s have been vaccinated, it needs to go back to a free for all. I am not tolerating pubs being closed through March.

We should be freeing up right now. Over 70s will have to suck it up and isolate until vaccinated. If they don't want to isolate then it's up to them. We have given a year of our lives just to protect them.

On reflection to the whole thing, and I don't blame the government for the initial reaction last march, we shouldnt have closed anything. It should have just been the elderly/vulnerable that were in Tier 5.

We have lost hundreds of nursing home residents to covid since the turn of the year. Do you not think every conceivable effort was made to protect them during the current wave, informed by much more advanced information on the virus than first time round?

Now project that death toll across the whole year, to the entire over 70 cohort, and you'll have a rough idea the kind of carnage your approach would have brought about.

doublejobbing 2

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I genuinely cannot get my head around the fascination with having pubs open, I've posted in this thread a few times and it's just mind boggling.

The only people who should be crying out for them to open are the staff who are currently down money due to them being closed. Anyone else who is still complaining seriously needs to seek an AA meeting.

I'd have went without going to a pub, or having a drink at all, for several 3 week periods a year by my 30's. If you added it up cumulatively I'd say there was 2- 3 months every year in the last few years where I didn't have a drink. While the novelty may wear off I can't imagine a scenario ever again where I won't go to a pub every single weekend once they re open, such is how grateful I will be to have them back. It isn't alcoholism as you put it. It's putting on a good shirt, good shoes and jacket, a bus into town to see old pals who, in some cases due to reasons like fear about passing to their babies, I haven't seen in a year. Most importantly it's about getting out of the feckin house and away from the screens and interacting again.

While it is partly our culture, it is also fueled by the obvious stealth war on pubs that NPHET has waged. They weren't going to allow them open at all only pubs that did food started making noise that they would open when restaurants opened, and the government let them rather than get involved in a legal mire about what is and is not a restaurant.

We had the longest hospitality lockdown in Europe, and when we did re open we re opened only partially, with daft rules that nowhere else in Europe had to contend with. We're all in this together turned into us vs them- health Nazis like Holohan and nerds like Harris taking glee in the anti craic vibe of the whole thing.

bucketybuck

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

We have lost hundreds of nursing home residents to covid since the turn of the year. Do you not think every conceivable effort was made to protect them during the current wave, informed by much more advanced information on the virus than first time round?

No I don't. And it is very obvious that every conceivable effort was not made.

One of the many mistakes government has made is their utter failure to properly identify and protect those who are really vulnerable to this virus, and it is to their eternal shame.

Loafing Oaf

bucketybuck wrote: »

No I don't. And it is very obvious that every conceivable effort was not made.

One of the many mistakes government has made is their utter failure to properly identify and protect those who are really vulnerable to this virus, and it is to their eternal shame.

Isn't the reality thatit's virtually impossible to keep the virus out of nursing homes when it's widespread in the community?

Shane Driscoll

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I'd have went without going to a pub, or having a drink at all, for several 3 week periods a year by my 30's. If you added it up cumulatively I'd say there was 2- 3 months every year in the last few years where I didn't have a drink. While the novelty may wear off I can't imagine a scenario ever again where I won't go to a pub every single weekend once they re open, such is how grateful I will be to have them back. It isn't alcoholism as you put it. It's putting on a good shirt, good shoes and jacket, a bus into town to see old pals who, in some cases due to reasons like fear about passing to their babies, I haven't seen in a year. Most importantly it's about getting out of the feckin house and away from the screens and interacting again.

It's mental stuff alright. You're called an alcoholic because all you want to do is go out and see your friends.

We have a vaccine for corona, is there a vaccine for the no-fun, anti social people?

doublejobbing 2

Shane Driscoll wrote: »

It's mental stuff alright. You're called an alcoholic because all you want to do is go out and see your friends.

We have a vaccine for corona, is there a vaccine for the no-fun, anti social people?

If they hate Ireland so much they could always feck off to Europe and find people who think a paella and three bottles of Peroni in a cafe bar with 10 customers is a good night out.

RocketRaccoon

Shane Driscoll wrote: »

It's mental stuff alright. You're called an alcoholic because all you want to do is go out and see your friends.

We have a vaccine for corona, is there a vaccine for the no-fun, anti social people?

Does that have to be done in a pub?

RocketRaccoon

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Does that have to be done in a pub?

Actually, a vaccine needn't apply at all. Those who are bothered or intimidated by people socialising in a pub (when they reopen) can simply stay at home. All parties are satisfied.

Coybig_

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

We have lost hundreds of nursing home residents to covid since the turn of the year. Do you not think every conceivable effort was made to protect them during the current wave, informed by much more advanced information on the virus than first time round?

Now project that death toll across the whole year, to the entire over 70 cohort, and you'll have a rough idea the kind of carnage your approach would have brought about.

Absolutely, categorically, no.

Holohan has consistently pointed the finger at community transmission, with the argument that if there is higher levels of community transmission then nothing could be done about the hospitals or nursing homes.

RocketRaccoon

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, a vaccine needn't apply at all. Those who are bothered or intimidated by people socialising in a pub (when they reopen) can simply stay at home. All parties are satisfied.

So for example, I don't go to the pub but my work colleague does because he's cool, he arrives into work on Monday with covid which he doesn't know he has for 4-5 days.

Should I be satisfied?

Just for the sake of fairness, I went out 3 nights in December, I followed all guidelines and so did the people I was out with. However I also saw plenty who weren't following, those people are the problem, hence the closure. I'm not in a rush to go back to the pubs again, once they're open I will go out once every few months like before all of this. I certainly won't be crying for the next few months that they're closed though.

pottokblue

Yes its not the be all end all but I've not been in a pub since december 2020 and I'm still missing them heaps.... Doubt they'll reopen in time for Cheltenham so I'll be couchwatching the festival 2021 and hope to be back in The (C) Box for 2022....

FlubberJones

As much as I want the boozers to open I simply can't see it, they're at the stage where they're such an easy target and they keep getting smashed.
I do miss dropping in for a couple, maybe even three or four and heading home, or if there's a match on, particularly this weekend My home team v Ireland in the 6nats, now there was a GREAT afternoon.

Neowise

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

We have lost hundreds of nursing home residents to covid since the turn of the year. Do you not think every conceivable effort was made to protect them during the current wave, informed by much more advanced information on the virus than first time round?

Now project that death toll across the whole year, to the entire over 70 cohort, and you'll have a rough idea the kind of carnage your approach would have brought about.

No. Contact tracing could have been done properly. for a virus with a 5-6 day incubation period, then 5-6 day contact tracing should be a minimum. I believe that there have been admissions that this is not being done. If this is not being done, then source of transmissions are not being detected. This is pretty basic contact tracing stuff that is not being done.

dominatinMC

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I'd have went without going to a pub, or having a drink at all, for several 3 week periods a year by my 30's. If you added it up cumulatively I'd say there was 2- 3 months every year in the last few years where I didn't have a drink. While the novelty may wear off I can't imagine a scenario ever again where I won't go to a pub every single weekend once they re open, such is how grateful I will be to have them back. It isn't alcoholism as you put it. It's putting on a good shirt, good shoes and jacket, a bus into town to see old pals who, in some cases due to reasons like fear about passing to their babies, I haven't seen in a year. Most importantly it's about getting out of the feckin house and away from the screens and interacting again.

Not sure about the rest of your post as I don't believe there is some conspiratorial war on pubs, but this is a great point and one that gets overlooked. So many people are welded to their screens at the moment - work from home, online exercise classes, zoom calls, etc. that the pub would be a refuge of sorts. Granted, I accept that some people do use their phone when in a pub, but at least there is human face-to-face contact. I think people are getting sick of all this virtual ****e tbh

PTH2009

Supports are there and will rise to basically bribe publicans, our drink pubs were closed the longest in all of Europe and no doubt there was malice in it like the recent joke made by MM (You must be thirsty?

As i said before can see them opening Food pubs with outdoor service only (maybe not esp with the **** up over xmas) with indoor dining for residents only in Hotels, drink pubs once again told 'not yet lads'

hynesie08

I'll have the popcorn ready for the 5th of March when pubs aren't even mentioned when it comes to restrictions being lifted.

MOH

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I genuinely cannot get my head around the fascination with having pubs open, I've posted in this thread a few times and it's just mind boggling.

The only people who should be crying out for them to open are the staff who are currently down money due to them being closed. Anyone else who is still complaining seriously needs to seek an AA meeting.

LOL, this lazy nonsensical argument again.

I genuinely cannot get my head around how someone who's posted in this thread numerous times has manged to actually read so little of it.

Cerveza

A few hot whiskeys and few pints of Porter be nice later. The thirst is on lads.

RocketRaccoon

MOH wrote: »

LOL, this lazy nonsensical argument again.

I genuinely cannot get my head around how someone who's posted in this thread numerous times has manged to actually read so little of it.

Can you give me a valid reason why they should be open? As I said, other than staff, nobody in their right mind should be complaining about this.

end of the road

Shane Driscoll wrote: »

Both are contagious viruses, both are dangerous to the elderly. It's not unreasonable to ask why there's hysteria about one and not the other.

covid is not flue.
flue is way way less contagious and even dangerous then covid.
the elderly can be at more risk from flue but the risk is nothing compared to covid.
there is no hysteria apart from in your imagination.

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Once 70-80% of over 70s have been vaccinated, it needs to go back to a free for all. I am not tolerating pubs being closed through March.

We should be freeing up right now. Over 70s will have to suck it up and isolate until vaccinated. If they don't want to isolate then it's up to them. We have given a year of our lives just to protect them.

On reflection to the whole thing, and I don't blame the government for the initial reaction last march, we shouldnt have closed anything. It should have just been the elderly/vulnerable that were in Tier 5.

what you will and won't tolerate is irrelevant, if it is decided pubs will stay closed in march then that is what will happen.
by the way it's not just those in their 70s and 80s who are vulnerable to this, people of those ages are just at the highest risk.
even once those in their 70s and 80s are vaccinated there still won't be room to go back to full normal, rather restrictions can only start being removed.
we have given a year of our lives to protect the whole country and it's systems, not just those vulnerable to the effects or even dying from covid, an uncontrolled serious virus like covid eventually crashes a country.
as already explained to you a plenty, having the elderly and vulnerable in Tier 5/isolating with everything else open and the rest of us going about our business would have failed, it would have put them at absolute high risk due to the ridiculously high rate of covid that would have been in the community.

Shane Driscoll wrote: »

Good and reasonable points. We've sacrificed the economy and the well being of young people to save the elderly. It's time open up again.

we haven't sacrificed the economy at all, only some low contributing non-essential parts have been shut on a temporary basis which has caused a dip, which will be sorted not long after full reopening.
it's a small number of industries that keep ireland afloat in reality and contribute in the majority, and those industries are still operational along with the essential parts.

MOH

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Can you give me a valid reason why they should be open? As I said, other than staff, nobody in their right mind should be complaining about this.

This thread is about the persistent pushing back of pub re-opening dates since last summer, not just about the current situation. Pubs should certainly remain closed until the current spike resulting from the horrendous mismanagement of the pandemic has abated somewhat, and the widespread general lockdown is eased. At which point they should reopen, while the authorities focus on the actual causes which got us to this point..

However, numerous posters, including yourself, have at multiple times over the past eight months made the cheap claim that anyone expressing an opinion that pubs should not have remained closed for the duration of the pandemic must be an alcoholic. Which is not only a lazy, nonsensical "argument" (though really thinly veiled personal abuse) but also disgustingly trivialises alcoholism, purely to feel smug and score internet points.

If anything, people in general are drinking more frequently than before the pandemic. And many are doing so devoid of social contact, and with far less barriers to excessive drinking than in a pub context. So if you actually cared in the slightest about alcoholism you wouldn't be as flippant about it.

As to the reasons why pubs should not have been closed for the duration, they've been enumerated numerous times in this thread, I'm not going to reiterate them for one as lazy as your post demonstrates.

But here's a brief list of just some of the people who have, at one point or another during the 10 month+ pub lockdown, suggested that they should reopen. And thus, by the definition of you and others, are alcoholics:
- pub owners and staff
- people for whom pub visits are primarily a social event, and in some cases may be their principal avenue of social contact
- Leo Varadkar, who promised (Sept? Oct?) that pubs would reopen unless the country went into a wider general lockdown
- The Taoiseach, the rest of the government, health professionals, and everyone involved else in drawing up the published "Living with Covid" plan, which recommended pubs open at every level - albeit takeaway only at level 5, and outdoor only at level 4.

But clearly you and your ilk are far wiser and know far more than them. Must be nice. Pat yourself on the back there and have a wonderful weekend.

bucketybuck

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Isn't the reality thatit's virtually impossible to keep the virus out of nursing homes when it's widespread in the community?

No it is not.

Would it have been a complicated matter requiring substantial investment? Sure, of course it would, but in no way should it be considered "virtually impossible".

The worst part is that they didn't even try. It was known right from the start of this pandemic who was most at risk and still they did next to nothing to protect the nursing homes, and in fact said and did things that just exacerbated the situation for them.

It should be a national disgrace, but sure thats just another day for our CMO.

RocketRaccoon

MOH wrote: »

This thread is about the persistent pushing back of pub re-opening dates since last summer, not just about the current situation. Pubs should certainly remain closed until the current spike resulting from the horrendous mismanagement of the pandemic has abated somewhat, and the widespread general lockdown is eased. At which point they should reopen, while the authorities focus on the actual causes which got us to this point..

However, numerous posters, including yourself, have at multiple times over the past eight months made the cheap claim that anyone expressing an opinion that pubs should not have remained closed for the duration of the pandemic must be an alcoholic. Which is not only a lazy, nonsensical "argument" (though really thinly veiled personal abuse) but also disgustingly trivialises alcoholism, purely to feel smug and score internet points.

If anything, people in general are drinking more frequently than before the pandemic. And many are doing so devoid of social contact, and with far less barriers to excessive drinking than in a pub context. So if you actually cared in the slightest about alcoholism you wouldn't be as flippant about it.

As to the reasons why pubs should not have been closed for the duration, they've been enumerated numerous times in this thread, I'm not going to reiterate them for one as lazy as your post demonstrates.

But here's a brief list of just some of the people who have, at one point or another during the 10 month+ pub lockdown, suggested that they should reopen. And thus, by the definition of you and others, are alcoholics:
- pub owners and staff
- people for whom pub visits are primarily a social event, and in some cases may be their principal avenue of social contact
- Leo Varadkar, who promised (Sept? Oct?) that pubs would reopen unless the country went into a wider general lockdown
- The Taoiseach, the rest of the government, health professionals, and everyone involved else in drawing up the published "Living with Covid" plan, which recommended pubs open at every level - albeit takeaway only at level 5, and outdoor only at level 4.

But clearly you and your ilk are far wiser and know far more than them. Must be nice. Pat yourself on the back there and have a wonderful weekend.

So let me get it straight, you're praising the government for how they have handled the pub closure but in the same post have said they have handled it poorly?

As I've said, the only people who have a reason to complain about pub closures is staff who are losing money by not working.