Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

Eric Cartman

kippy wrote: »

They absolutely have to be treated differently. It's a pity the obvious difference between them aren't so obvious to you.

Please explain to me how an indoor seated coffee shop and indoor seated pub are different in the context of being open or closed by virus risk.

El_Duderino 09

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Please explain to me how an indoor seated coffee shop and indoor seated pub are different in the context of being open or closed by virus risk.

I think you should clarify one thing about the scenario first: are people getting drunk in the coffee shop?

Drifter50

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

The biggest lie being propagated by the idiot brigade. Why oh why would the 'establishment' want to kill off one of the main selling point so our tourist industry, the Irish Pub?? Ill humour you for a sec so lets go back to pre covid? Please point me towards any evidence of this dastardly plan? Anything?

Easy now, just look at it from the other side of the fence if the pubs are closed / restricted to eateries

-the A&E departments are not overrun at the weekends with alcohol related incidents, fights, scraps, car crashes etc etc
- AGS don`t have to spend large resources policing cities like Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and more so that when the pubs empty later in the evenings and crowds get rowdy then incidents start
-domestic abuse would be curbed / reduced. The support services for all this stuff would not be under such pressure and could be reassigned

Plenty of reasons to close the traditional pubs and turn them all into Tony`s cafe society culture

mightyreds

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Please explain to me how an indoor seated coffee shop and indoor seated pub are different in the context of being open or closed by virus risk.

Don't you know as soon as an Irish person gets a taste of alcohol on their lips they lose all inhibitions and start licking everyone around them.

I've seen as many cafes bend the rules or not be able to apply them properly as I have bars/gastropubs but never remember much stir in the media about it.

kippy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Please explain to me how an indoor seated coffee shop and indoor seated pub are different in the context of being open or closed by virus risk.

Alcohol, people's behaviour, opening hours.

beggars_bush

kippy wrote: »

You don't need to buy food in a Gastro pub in 'normal' times...
I really don't think the arms of the state are in cohoots with private enterprise or indeed have the capability to do this.
There are plenty smaller pubs that sell food rurally and the reality for a lot of pubs I'd they need to be doing this in the modern world anyway to turn a buck.

Most rural pubs don't do food.

In fact, a family with a pub locally has said that its the first time they've ever had a steady guaranteed income in the house - with a few pup payments every week

Loafing Oaf

Stormyteacup wrote: »

If behaviour under the influence increases the spread of covid then why allow unrestricted sales of it on supermarkets and off-licenses?

Because visiting a pub inevitably involves sharing the same indoor space, over a fairly extended period, with people outside your immediate family. Yes I know people have house parties, and in principle they are probably worse than pubs for spreading the virus, but that's only part of the consumption of shop-bought alcohol. Plus if people were really determined to drink at home they would stock up in Norn Iron or whatever...

Eric Cartman

kippy wrote: »

Alcohol, people's behaviour, opening hours.

The pubs are open for much shorter hours than some coffee shops, weve no 24 hour pubs here,

On alcohol , how does alcohol itself impact virus risks, on a chemical level ? Most pubs also serve coffee and an array of soft drinks.

The worst place ive seen for peoples behaviour has been pennys, people on top of each other in the queue, masks around chins, handling all the clothes in racks one after another,

kippy

beggars_bush wrote: »

Most rural pubs don't do food.

In fact, a family with a pub locally has said that its the first time they've ever had a steady guaranteed income in the house - with a few pup payments every week

I don't deny that was said to you, but surely that almost proves the point? That pubs have been failing for years now and those that don't/haven't diversified have been in more trouble than most.
Am in a rural area at the minute. 8 of the 12 pubs in the surrounding 20 miles or so serve food.
It's depopulation, stricter drink driving laws, no public transport, healthier living and proliferation of off license sales that have effected rural pubs more than anything.
Pubs that don't have food sales have been struggling for years.

kippy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The pubs are open for much shorter hours than some coffee shops, weve no 24 hour pubs here,

On alcohol , how does alcohol itself impact virus risks, on a chemical level ? Most pubs also serve coffee and an array of soft drinks.

The worst place ive seen for peoples behaviour has been pennys, people on top of each other in the queue, masks around chins, handling all the clothes in racks one after another,

Alcohol impacts human behaviour. Human behaviour impacts virus transmission.


Do you deny either of the two facts above?

windy shepard henderson

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Please explain to me how an indoor seated coffee shop and indoor seated pub are different in the context of being open or closed by virus risk.

its highly unlikely you would see many people leave a coffee shop head stright for a cramped over crowded takaway all at the same time espically at night hang around town until 5 am and forget compleatly about this whole pandemic lark

Allinall

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Please explain to me how an indoor seated coffee shop and indoor seated pub are different in the context of being open or closed by virus risk.

people tend to spend a lot longer in pubs, and tend to drink alcohol which lowers inhibitions, which in turn increases the chances of picking up, or spreading the virus.

hynesie08

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

its highly unlikely you would see many people leave a coffee shop head stright for a cramped over crowded takaway all at the same time espically at night hang around town until 5 am and forget compleatly about this whole pandemic lark

You won't have seen that at a pub either, they've had to close at 11 all through covid......

kippy

hynesie08 wrote: »

You won't have seen that at a pub either, they've had to close at 11 all through covid......

Have many coffee shops been opening till 11 during Covid?

windy shepard henderson

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Agree. There is a weird disdain from some for anyone who enjoys a drink in a social setting.



There was no need for the government to focus on alcohol and its impact on behaviour. The picking and choosing of which parts of hospitality to open was a ridiculous farce. Either close all, open all with same restrictions, or ban alcohol altogether. If behaviour under the influence increases the spread of covid then why allow unrestricted sales of it on supermarkets and off-licenses?

.

i think going out for a meal and out on the piss are two compleatly diffrent things altogether , also if you think people would have stopped drinking altogether had a ban on off licences and supermarkets being introduced you must be on another planet , the country would be full of booze within a week and all through the proceeds of crime

windy shepard henderson

hynesie08 wrote: »

You won't have seen that at a pub either, they've had to close at 11 all through covid......

so people would have still gone out at 10pm had the pub being alowed open untill 11:D

look people would have just started drinking earlier if the pubs were closing earlier

Drifter50

kippy wrote: »

You don't need to buy food in a Gastro pub in 'normal' times...
I really don't think the arms of the state are in cohoots with private enterprise or indeed have the capability to do this.
There are plenty smaller pubs that sell food rurally and the reality for a lot of pubs I'd they need to be doing this in the modern world anyway to turn a buck.

Perhaps I did`nt explain clearly enough

- I know you don`t have to buy food in a gastro pub but is it not fair to say you are encouraged to / have a menu stuck under your nose and Gawd help you if you ask for a seat on your own
- I said nothing about private enterprise, I am talking about what the nanny state wants and that is to move away from our model unfortunately
-3 out of 7 pubs in my area do food and the non food pubs are as busy with under 35`s as the ones serving food which tend to have an older clientele.

Eric Cartman

kippy wrote: »

Have many coffee shops been opening till 11 during Covid?

Starbucks stephens green was 24 hours and now closes at 10.30, many arabs and asians who do not drink would spend hours there as their social outlet , not all coffee shops are the same but that one can be fairly compared to a non food pub as it functions basically as one for those who dont drink.

This idea that everyone going to the pub is going to get hammered and that it automatically means rule breaking is nonsense. I still see no compelling case for treating a non food pub and a coffee shop differently, same risk, double standards in enforcement.

Drifter50

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Distain for drinkers...
Ban all alcohol sales...
Puritan push...

Is there a pub conspiracy theorist bingo game? You might be close to a full house.

If there’s a big puritan push from government and the public against drinking, why do you think they didn’t ban alcohol sale in shops?

You`re not far wrong here
Surely you can see the disdain for drinkers that abounds these days
Ban all alcohol sales.............Mmm watch this space
Puritan push. Ha, you only have to listen to some of the "mind yourself" ads being sent out by the government these days
Close the bingo halls and betting shops, again watch this space because the anti gambling brigade would love that

kippy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Starbucks stephens green was 24 hours and now closes at 10.30, many arabs and asians who do not drink would spend hours there as their social outlet , not all coffee shops are the same but that one can be fairly compared to a non food pub as it functions basically as one for those who dont drink.

This idea that everyone going to the pub is going to get hammered and that it automatically means rule breaking is nonsense. I still see no compelling case for treating a non food pub and a coffee shop differently, same risk, double standards in enforcement.

So one coffee shop in the entire country opened to within a half hour of the pubs...


Can you answer my previous question to you....rather than repeating your own opinion again..
.

StupidLikeAFox

Eric Cartman wrote: »

On alcohol , how does alcohol itself impact virus risks, on a chemical level ? Most pubs also serve coffee and an array of soft drinks,

Look your delibrtaely being obtuse here. I love going to the pub and would have been in one most weekends with either friends, family or work colleagues. I was in one on 21st of September which took the regulations seriously, had gotten rid of the pool table, everyone social distancing, Perspex up and were doing table service. All good from that perspective.

After closing time there was another pub up the town that we had to walk by and all the people had spilled on the streets, all on top of each other, organising house parties to go to etc. Now I think that pub was overwhelmed - they didn't have the staff to enforce the rules and after a few drinks people just lost the run of themselves.

You can make whatever points you want about personal responsibility, enforcing rules in pubs etc but the fact remains that that second scenario is repeated in every town and village in Ireland as soon as the pubs open, and short of putting on 1000s of extra guards to enforce rules then thats not going to change. The real losers are the owners and patrons of pubs that are doing it right - but there is no credible way of identifying the good pubs from the bad pubs, so everyone has to suffer.

El_Duderino 09

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The pubs are open for much shorter hours than some coffee shops, weve no 24 hour pubs here,

On alcohol , how does alcohol itself impact virus risks, on a chemical level ? Most pubs also serve coffee and an array of soft drinks.

The worst place ive seen for peoples behaviour has been pennys, people on top of each other in the queue, masks around chins, handling all the clothes in racks one after another,

Lol at your dedication to pretending not to understand the point about alcohol. It’s a disingenuous thing to do and really casts you in a very negative light as a poster. But fair play for the dedication to missing the point.

You betray that you actually do understand the point in the next paragraph about Pennys - the behaviour change resulting from being drunk.

kippy

Drifter50 wrote: »

Perhaps I did`nt explain clearly enough

- I know you don`t have to buy food in a gastro pub but is it not fair to say you are encouraged to / have a menu stuck under your nose and Gawd help you if you ask for a seat on your own
- I said nothing about private enterprise, I am talking about what the nanny state wants and that is to move away from our model unfortunately
-3 out of 7 pubs in my area do food and the non food pubs are as busy with under 35`s as the ones serving food which tend to have an older clientele.

But private enterprise themselves are moving away from the model.....or else closing....that's what's been happening here.
It's part of a bigger issue of rural depopulation and all of the other things I have mentioned.
Locally both sets of pubs have a mixed clientele and plenty drinking goes on in those that serve food also.

El_Duderino 09

Drifter50 wrote: »

You`re not far wrong here
Surely you can see the disdain for drinkers that abounds these days
Ban all alcohol sales.............Mmm watch this space
Puritan push. Ha, you only have to listen to some of the "mind yourself" ads being sent out by the government these days
Close the bingo halls and betting shops, again watch this space because the anti gambling brigade would love that

There’s absolutely no restriction on buying alcohol outside pubs. There have been plenty of calls for closing off-license alcohol sales and government hasn’t even entertained the idea.

But I think a lot of people calling for off-license closures were people doing it out of spite rather than out of anything serious. The vintners certainly publicly suggested there should be a ban on alcohol sales (if pubs can’t open).

There is regulation of alcohol sales and that’s government’s job. But the notion that there’s a puritan trend towards banning alcohol, is conspiracy theory stuff- akin to 5G or anti-vaccine, it makes me think the person saying it is probably not very bright.

Eric Cartman

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol at your dedication to pretending not to understand the point about alcohol. It’s a disingenuous thing to do and really casts you in a very negative light as a poster. But fair play for the dedication to missing the point.

You betray that you actually do understand the point in the next paragraph about Pennys - the behaviour change resulting from being drunk.

Im not pretending to not understand anything. Heres my issue.

if the laws are about stopping people piling on top of each other - pennys and a lot of low end, non essential retail should be closed too

if the laws are about sitting around for a long time socialising causing infection spread - coffee shops should be closed too

if its about deciding what to close to just limit whats open in general then a lot more things including the pub should be closed.

The non food pubs in Dublin have been shut since march, no matter what angle or reason you put on it, if its about limiting infections, interactions, time spent socialising etc.. other things should also have remained closed in tandem with the pubs. Clearly that has not happened and I think the non food pubs should have had the same rules as coffee shops and food pubs, all open or all closed.

The non food pubs have absolutely been used as a punching bag by the government during this.

Pintman Paddy Losty

Covid has seen a shift in the way people work, with working from home and a hybrid approach being totally accepted.

I really think we're going to see a shift in the drinking culture here too. There'll be far less of lads spending their "Stephenses" day packed in to a depressing pub watching English soccer and drinking large quantities of mass produced lagers.

A more reasoned approach to drinking with families popping by to the local gastro pub which has a nice selection of local brews or good wines to grab a nice meal of local produce. It will probably cost a lot more, but people will go less often. Pubs will be fewer but they will be better and more welcoming and inclusive spaces.

That for me is a big positive from all this.

Two Paddy's days when Dublin city isn't full of bumbling drunkards is a great thing too. 2022 before the next "wet" Paddy's Day and I think things will be much changed by then.

Viscount Aggro

There are gastro-pubs open, that do not serve food.
I know of one on Thomas Street. You pay 20 EUR, get 4 drinks, receipt shows 2 drinks and a pizza.

hynesie08

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

There are gastro-pubs open, that do not serve food.
I know of one on Thomas Street. You pay 20 EUR, get 4 drinks, receipt shows 2 drinks and a pizza.

Cool, not open today though is it, nice attempt to drop someone in it though......

StupidLikeAFox

"Pintman wrote:

I really think we're going to see a shift in the drinking culture here too. There'll be far less of lads spending their "Stephenses" day packed in to a depressing pub watching English soccer and drinking large quantities of mass produced lagers.

A more reasoned approach to drinking with families popping by to the local gastro pub which has a nice selection of local brews or good wines to grab a nice meal of local produce. It will probably cost a lot more, but people will go less often. Pubs will be fewer but they will be better and more welcoming and inclusive spaces.

That for me is a big positive from all this.

Two Paddy's days when Dublin city isn't full of bumbling drunkards is a great thing too. 2022 before the next "wet" Paddy's Day and I think things will be much changed by then.

I doubt it - I'd say there will be an even bigger appreciation for pubs when they are allowed open up again. The first few weeks will be like a festival of Paddy's days

mightyreds

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Covid has seen a shift in the way people work, with working from home and a hybrid approach being totally accepted.

I really think we're going to see a shift in the drinking culture here too. There'll be far less of lads spending their "Stephenses" day packed in to a depressing pub watching English soccer and drinking large quantities of mass produced lagers.

A more reasoned approach to drinking with families popping by to the local gastro pub which has a nice selection of local brews or good wines to grab a nice meal of local produce. It will probably cost a lot more, but people will go less often. Pubs will be fewer but they will be better and more welcoming and inclusive spaces.

That for me is a big positive from all this.

Two Paddy's days when Dublin city isn't full of bumbling drunkards is a great thing too. 2022 before the next "wet" Paddy's Day and I think things will be much changed by then.

Lol try harder