Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

Castlekeeper

timple23 wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone has something like this installed. Dry dung tends to just sit on the slat. Looks like a good idea.

The grid moves back and forth with the track.

I've seen them on regular slats indoors, farmer copied them himself, super job.
I'm in the market for a few myself, where is that image from, who makes them off the shelf?
I've more to be doing than shoving around dry cow dung for the winter.

whelan2

atlantic mist wrote: »

we are milk recording with years, protein and butterfat always higher with milk recording than coop figure, i was talking to someone in the labs and they told me the machine for testing can vary your result by 0.01% as its not 100% accurate i.e protein of 3.4 could return a result of 3.5 or 3.3....review your last 10 years youl be up some years and down others

glanbia dismiss milk recording results as they only sample for 1 milking, when you take a sample of bulk tank on two day collection thats dismissed as you cant take an even sample like their bulk tanks:) cant win:)

I'm on every day collection so figures should be close enough. They are never close though. Scc varies alot too

Morris Moss

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Similar figure here. I'm aiming to start in Spring 2022 and pricing a lean-to onto existing cubicles for the parlour.

Some stock sorted and a second-hand 8-unit parlour also sourced. Roadways and paddocks in place. Land owned.

Nothing fancy any where but I'm still facing into €1,500-2,000 per cow.

Ya should put in a 12 unit parlour at least, you'll do a lot of waiting around in an 8 unit, also won't cost ya too much extra if going second hand

Castlekeeper

atlantic mist wrote: »

we are milk recording with years, protein and butterfat always higher with milk recording than coop figure, i was talking to someone in the labs and they told me the machine for testing can vary your result by 0.01% as its not 100% accurate i.e protein of 3.4 could return a result of 3.5 or 3.3....review your last 10 years youl be up some years and down others

glanbia dismiss milk recording results as they only sample for 1 milking, when you take a sample of bulk tank on two day collection thats dismissed as you cant take an even sample like their bulk tanks:) cant win:)

From listening to someone with a lifetimes experience in milk testing and processing, collection samples are " discounted" to reflect losses in transport, storage, and processing. The purchaser only pays for what they get.
This is the main reason behind the outright rejection if independent milk testing as some processors and systems are less efficient than others.

Siamsa Sessions

Morris Moss wrote: »

Ya should put in a 12 unit parlour at least, you'll do a lot of waiting around in an 8 unit, also won't cost ya too much extra if going second hand

I'd consider it but the 8-unit one is coming as part of the deal with the weanling heifers I bought. Hopefully I won't regret it (for a few years anyway!)

Mooooo

atlantic mist wrote: »

we are milk recording with years, protein and butterfat always higher with milk recording than coop figure, i was talking to someone in the labs and they told me the machine for testing can vary your result by 0.01% as its not 100% accurate i.e protein of 3.4 could return a result of 3.5 or 3.3....review your last 10 years youl be up some years and down others

glanbia dismiss milk recording results as they only sample for 1 milking, when you take a sample of bulk tank on two day collection thats dismissed as you cant take an even sample like their bulk tanks:) cant win:)

Protein is close enough but bf is out by 0.5 to 0.6. Recordings have it higher all year. Recording had bf at 5.08 collection at 4.49.... was wondering is it the electric milk pump or something.....

GrasstoMilk

jaymla627 wrote: »

I was referring to New Zealand, all figures quoted are from their financial institutions, first line of my original sentence said "out their" and was in reply to your false statement that the vast majority of kiwi dairy farmers had little to zero debt, which was wrong.. .

Think we both miss understood each other jay
I was referring to irish farms with what I said about levels of debt

straight

The USDA are trying to talk sense into the EU.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/eu-green-deal-strategies-to-reduce-eu-agri-product-competitiveness-usda/

Birdnuts

straight wrote: »

The USDA are trying to talk sense into the EU.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/eu-green-deal-strategies-to-reduce-eu-agri-product-competitiveness-usda/

.

Not sure alot of the conclusions in that are entirely based on reality - the facts are that US farming is in receipt of more subs then their EU counterparts and is still struggling in terms of prices and reducing farmer numbers. This is despite there being little or no Environmental regulations with regards to hormone, pesticides etc. compared to the EU. The best way the EU can regulate any potential fall out for EU farmers is to impose similar standards on produce coming in from the likes of Brazil - which is why it was a welcome development to see Merosur shot down.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Might interest a few starting up in the industry in the next few years.
https://twitter.com/teagasc/status/1324796217860202503?s=19

straight

Looks like you will have to give your herd number soon when ordering fertiliser. It brings it in line with feed & pesticides. Hard to get any bit of land around here. I've everything on the milking block. Might have to have a chat with AIB.

jaymla627

straight wrote: »

Looks like you will have to give your herd number soon when ordering fertiliser. It brings it in line with feed & pesticides. Hard to get any bit of land around here. I've everything on the milking block. Might have to have a chat with AIB.

2021 is the last year of current derogation exemption,realistically cant see it been renewed and given a dairy cow is going to 89kgs n ha from next year, fag box figures using the 89kgs n/ ha figure and a allowable 170kgs n/ha mean a 150 cow herd that was in derogation instead of needing circa 125 acres of ground to carry cows alone will be looking at having to have close to 200 acres which ultimately leads to a drop of in fert needed anyways

Panch18

straight wrote: »

Looks like you will have to give your herd number soon when ordering fertiliser. It brings it in line with feed & pesticides. Hard to get any bit of land around here. I've everything on the milking block. Might have to have a chat with AIB.

What about lads who have no stock but sell standing grass for silage and hay? Few lads round here doing thst

Say my name

Panch18 wrote: »

What about lads who have no stock but sell standing grass for silage and hay? Few lads round here doing thst

They'll probably have to give the buyers herd number. :pac:

The fert limits are too high anyway. I'm probably shooting myself in the foot for posting that..
But I've always maintained stocking rates can be held while reducing artificial nitrogen usage.
I've done a bit of that this year for the first time in my farming career. The old me wouldn't have thought it possible but there's so much to learn about biological nitrogen in the soil that ag colleges 20 years ago never taught me. Maybe teagasc is just considering it now? But they are so far behind.
The biological soil gurus are teaching this stuff and have hard necks able to cope with the naysayers, which I respect.

I just hope nerves are held on keeping stocking limits but reduce the fert allowed a bit.
There's no point hoping for the status quo as there's pressure for the dept to do something to cut nitrogen usage.
If stocking limits were held. Farmers would be forced to be creative.

alps

straight wrote: »

Looks like you will have to give your herd number soon when ordering fertiliser. It brings it in line with feed & pesticides. Hard to get any bit of land around here. I've everything on the milking block. Might have to have a chat with AIB.

Where did you see this?

alps

jaymla627 wrote: »

2021 is the last year of current derogation exemption,realistically cant see it been renewed and given a dairy cow is going to 89kgs n ha from next year, fag box figures using the 89kgs n/ ha figure and a allowable 170kgs n/ha mean a 150 cow herd that was in derogation instead of needing circa 125 acres of ground to carry cows alone will be looking at having to have close to 200 acres which ultimately leads to a drop of in fert needed anyways

Where do you think the land will.come from?

The reason guys are in derogation is that the land wasn't available.

Hence derogation farmers are mainly in large pockets and clusters like West Cork where something like 60% are in derogation.

Is the figure like 7000 derivation farms? Only 18000 dairy farmers..

You could be getting a few new neighbours jay??

jaymla627

alps wrote: »

Where do you think the land will.come from?

The reason guys are in derogation is that the land wasn't available.

Hence derogation farmers are mainly in large pockets and clusters like West Cork where something like 60% are in derogation.

Is the figure like 7000 derivation farms? Only 18000 dairy farmers..

You could be getting a few new neighbours jay??

In my situation have got in with a local tillage guy beside uscwho's now contract growing 30 acres of maize for us and another 35 acres went into grass on a 3 year rotation for silage plus I'd be buying alot of beet of the man and straw aswell, over 50% of my slurry is now going out on his ground so be it for my own crops on his ground along with some of his beet ground aswell...
If your in a area like west cork where readily available close by blocks of ground like above are available, reduced stocking rates are a given I reckon

Mooooo

jaymla627 wrote: »

In my situation have got in with a local tillage guy beside uscwho's now contract growing 30 acres of maize for us and another 35 acres went into grass on a 3 year rotation for silage plus I'd be buying alot of beet of the man and straw aswell, over 50% of my slurry is now going out on his ground so be it for my own crops on his ground along with some of his beet ground aswell...
If your in a area like west cork where readily available close by blocks of ground like above are available, reduced stocking rates are a given I reckon

Ready available close by blocks in west cork? Such a phrase doesn't exist I'm afraid.....

straight

jaymla627 wrote: »

In my situation have got in with a local tillage guy beside uscwho's now contract growing 30 acres of maize for us and another 35 acres went into grass on a 3 year rotation for silage plus I'd be buying alot of beet of the man and straw aswell, over 50% of my slurry is now going out on his ground so be it for my own crops on his ground along with some of his beet ground aswell...
If your in a area like west cork where readily available close by blocks of ground like above are available, reduced stocking rates are a given I reckon

Maybe I'll convert to contract growing for dairy farmers like that and go back to the job myself. Sounds like a much better hourly rate than dairy farming.

straight

alps wrote: »

Where did you see this?

Farm advisor told me. Could have been speculation but they are looking at imports vs what is spread and there is a possible discrepancy with N. I'm preparing for a tightening up at least on the next derogation. No land available around here either but the pen pushers are not going to be bothered about me having to cut back by 20 cows which would make my 7 day week unviable.

jaymla627

Mooooo wrote: »

Ready available close by blocks in west cork? Such a phrase doesn't exist I'm afraid.....

Having the best paying co-op historically in the country has to come with a few drawbacks with land availability and rental prices the glaring one obviously, maybe teagasc will pull a rabbit out of a hat and buy another few years at 250kgs/ha but its wishful thinking I reckon....
Less cows producing more milk would be a option but that dosent tie in with the majority of grass based low input herds, whatever options lads take the only sure thing is cost of production will rise quite considerably

cute geoge

Will lads not cut back to their right number and have a better lifestyle??
Every new regulation that can be taught up seems to be thrown at dairy farming I think I will be staying in bed anyway

mahoney_j

cute geoge wrote: »

Will lads not cut back to their right number and have a better lifestyle??
Every new regulation that can be taught up seems to be thrown at dairy farming I think I will be staying in bed anyway

What’s the right number???ive fragmented land kept beef ainmals and building cow nos to stage w
Here milk block now stocked at 4 per he and slowly been dropping beef nos .with more cows and less beef my work load has decreased im now thinking of phasing out beef altogether and driving on cow nos again .I’ll be buffering most of year but only one bunch of stock and less time going beteween blocks getting heifers contracts reared would ease burden again like jay id work in deal with tillage farmer for **** for beet/maize/wholecroo

alps

Ground won't be there for guys in Cork. Some will combine with tillage lads and that will shore up part of the problem but it will introduce another one.

All imported feed from tillage farms will come in at €200+ per tonne. There is no product you can bring from a tillage farm to a dairy farm that will compare in cost with grazed grass..

500kg ms cows requiring 6 tonnes of feed each, cannot make within an arses roar of a profit...

Either of 2 things will have to happen...tie up with a tillage lad and deliver 650kg solids per cow, or reduce your existing grass fed cows by 30٪ which will in effect reduce income by 50%+

You also need to realise that many derogation farmer currently partner up with tillage lads to import and export and to reduce their loading to 250..

Many of these lads have a home block loading of mid to high 300's and operating a genuine offloading of slurry.

Gawddawggonnit

Fear not...firstly the Dept don’t have a clue about how much nitrogen is imported into the country.
Secondly the Dept. and the Gov. are on the hook as well as farmers because of raw sewage (etc) going directly into waterways. Thus the Gov will fight tooth and nail to resist nitrogen constraints...it’s in everyone’s interest to continue polluting!

We’re drawing duck shyte Atm. The paperwork is ridiculous. Every load has to have a CMR type of receipt in triplicate, one copy for me, another for the consignée, and one for the Dept. Every fifth load must be analyzed in a lab,but that’s paid for by the Gov. The land that it’s spread onto has to be identified by SFP maps and submitted by us with all the necessary paperwork.
The owner of the duck houses used to be able to spread all the slurry on his own land 30yrs ago. He has 72ha. Now 75-80% has to be exported. I’m being paid by the farmer to take the slurry.

Not only will artificial nitrogen become restricted, but as sure as night follows day slurry and fym restrictions will also follow.

As other posters have alluded to, there is another way to get on fine without/reduced artificial N, but having to export slurry will be a sticky point due to the costs involved, and the loss of nutrients from the farm. IMO, that’ll be the hardest hurdle.

Injuryprone

It is quite 'Irish' that this sort of thing hasn't come in long before now. The fact is I can go down to the coop tomorrow with a cheque and a trailer and get a 2t pallet of whatever I want and no-one will be any the wiser. It would be fairly nieve to think that this isn't going on wholesale around the country.

Also, you can also get your allowance from the coop or wherever, and then go and get a 'topup' from a different supplier and when it comes to making the returns at the end of the year, you 'forget' about the second docket.

It was always going to become an issue eventually and tbh, the exact same issues exist with feed purchases, so I'd see that coming down the road as well

I'd imagine they'll tie it to SFP maps, sure tillage farmers have to buy plenty of fertilizer too

Wildsurfer

mahoney_j wrote: »

What’s the right number???ive fragmented land kept beef ainmals and building cow nos to stage w
Here milk block now stocked at 4 per he and slowly been dropping beef nos .with more cows and less beef my work load has decreased im now thinking of phasing out beef altogether and driving on cow nos again .I’ll be buffering most of year but only one bunch of stock and less time going beteween blocks getting heifers contracts reared would ease burden again like jay id work in deal with tillage farmer for **** for beet/maize/wholecroo

Buffering year round would be some p.i.t.a. I was out for a drive one Sunday afternoon this summer and passed a farm at about 3pm with a herd of cows waiting at the gap, and then met the farmer coming against me with a zero grazer. Having to face that ayr would be a nightmare.

mahoney_j

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Buffering year round would be some p.i.t.a. I was out for a drive one Sunday afternoon this summer and passed a farm at about 3pm with a herd of cows waiting at the gap, and then met the farmer coming against me with a zero grazer. Having to face that ayr would be a nightmare.

Z grazing def pain in the ass buffered cows here up to June silage out in morning took 15 minutes cows in for 20 minutes prior to pm milking to eat it cubicles sealed off and autonscrspers in feed passage fats proteins and yields all well up whilst doing it frig all work in it and if no stock on out blocks more time freed up

Castlekeeper

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

We’re drawing duck shyte Atm. The paperwork is ridiculous. Every load has to have a CMR type of receipt in triplicate, one copy for me, another for the consignée, and one for the Dept. Every fifth load must be analyzed in a lab,but that’s paid for by the Gov. The land that it’s spread onto has to be identified by SFP maps and submitted by us with all the necessary paperwork.
The owner of the duck houses used to be able to spread all the slurry on his own land 30yrs ago. He has 72ha. Now 75-80% has to be exported. I’m being paid by the farmer to take the slurry.

Much the same with all pig and poultry manure here with 20 years apart from the lab testing.

Gawddawggonnit

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Much the same with all pig and poultry manure here with 20 years apart from the lab testing.

He’s got 72ha to spread it on. Three handy sized duck houses approximately 1000sqm a piece, and he still has to export...