Dairy Chitchat 4, an udder new thread.

awaywithyou

kevthegaff wrote: »

Why are lads putting jackets on calves, how do they react when let out later without them?

my first year using them here... only have them on em for the first week or 2... mighty mighty job.. i would highly recommend using them...

on another note.. we inseminate our maidens with sexed and get on very well.. >80% conception rate.. we'd usually have a couple bull calves but this year upto today all had heifer calves... the last heifer due to sexed calved today.. she is off a cow that we had for 18 years.. an MFX.. she had 16 calves.. over 100tons of milk and over 3tons of protein.. a great cow.. it took 3 serves to get the heifer incalf... i was giddy with excitement today watching her calve down expecting another heifer calf.. sure all the other heifers had heifer calves.... i lifted the leg for a look.... a bull :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Gillespy

Haven't used the calf coats yet this year. Would be on them today defiantly if I had young calves in the group hutches or in a more open shed.

green daries

straight wrote: »

Temptation I guess. I don't look at the price of straws. The latest change in EBI seems to have firmed up the figures a bit. 4728 & 4513 were there last year and their figures held up well. Not daughter proven but bit proven at the same time.

Ya fair enough mentioned price as a comparison and the point that proven bulls are cheaper than a genomic (test IMO) bull
So in reality farmers are being hoodwinked by ai companies theres no reason they can't have proven bulls no matter what breed, cross,or type that farmers desire. to take the risk out of breeding

green daries

straight wrote: »

Temptation I guess. I don't look at the price of straws. The latest change in EBI seems to have firmed up the figures a bit. 4728 & 4513 were there last year and their figures held up well. Not daughter proven but bit proven at the same time.

Ya fair enough mentioned price as a comparison and the point that proven bulls are cheaper than a genomic (test IMO) bull
So in reality farmers are being hoodwinked by ai companies theres no reason they can't have proven bulls no matter what breed, cross,or type that farmers desire. to take the risk out of breeding

Wildsurfer

green daries wrote: »

Ya fair enough mentioned price as a comparison and the point that proven bulls are cheaper than a genomic (test IMO) bull
So in reality farmers are being hoodwinked by ai companies theres no reason they can't have proven bulls no matter what breed, cross,or type that farmers desire. to take the risk out of breeding

So you think everyone should use proven bulls, and nobody should use test bulls? Think about that one for a minute...

Mooooo

awaywithyou wrote: »

my first year using them here... only have them on em for the first week or 2... mighty mighty job.. i would highly recommend using them...

on another note.. we inseminate our maidens with sexed and get on very well.. >80% conception rate.. we'd usually have a couple bull calves but this year upto today all had heifer calves... the last heifer due to sexed calved today.. she is off a cow that we had for 18 years.. an MFX.. she had 16 calves.. over 100tons of milk and over 3tons of protein.. a great cow.. it took 3 serves to get the heifer incalf... i was giddy with excitement today watching her calve down expecting another heifer calf.. sure all the other heifers had heifer calves.... i lifted the leg for a look.... a bull :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Did you synchronize or serve on natural heats?

blackdog1

Wildsurfer wrote: »

So you think everyone should use proven bulls, and nobody should use test bulls? Think about that one for a minute...

If you don't remember this was done as the norm 15 years ago. You could actually go see daughters and milking figures of the bull with 100% confidence of those figures. You could even go on farms and compare mother and daughters. Genomic should have been e used by the ai companies to narrow down the number of test bulls they have not to use farmers herds as essentially test dummies

Mf310

Well lads have a group of 50 calves here all 2weeks-a month old on milk replacer , first year using milk replacer and not overly convinced on it to be honest have another group of 10 younger calves beside the 50 on whole milk and the difference in the shine alone is unreal. I think if the 50 were on whole milk theyd look a lot better but seemingly thats a thing about milk replacer is they wont have the same shine as whole milk but they should have a better thrive would I be right in saying that?
Also just this morning now im after noticing maybe about 10 out of the 50 are scouring all still lively and sucking though so dont think I should be overly worried? Will keep an eye on them over next few days and will buy a tub of milkshake to see if that will settle their dungs.
All advice re calf feeding appreciated thanks

Mooooo

No matter what they say no milk replacer is as good as milk, the bag would have to say 35% p and 45% f in the bag to be equivalent to milk here for example. Not to say they cant thrive on it. Plenty water and meal available and more straw than what you think is necessary. If there is a scour get a sample tested and I would give the batch a feed of effydral between feeds

K.G.

Mf310 wrote: »

Well lads have a group of 50 calves here all 2weeks-a month old on milk replacer , first year using milk replacer and not overly convinced on it to be honest have another group of 10 younger calves beside the 50 on whole milk and the difference in the shine alone is unreal. I think if the 50 were on whole milk theyd look a lot better but seemingly thats a thing about milk replacer is they wont have the same shine as whole milk but they should have a better thrive would I be right in saying that?
Also just this morning now im after noticing maybe about 10 out of the 50 are scouring all still lively and sucking though so dont think I should be overly worried? Will keep an eye on them over next few days and will buy a tub of milkshake to see if that will settle their dungs.
All advice re calf feeding appreciated thanks

By all acvounts its supposed to be a tricky year on the scour front with plenty rota and crpto around hitting calves at 7 to 10 days and at that stage it can be a b#t#h to keep the life in them.if they are over 3 weeks i wouldn't worry about it as much

Injuryprone

Mf310 wrote: »

Well lads have a group of 50 calves here all 2weeks-a month old on milk replacer , first year using milk replacer and not overly convinced on it to be honest have another group of 10 younger calves beside the 50 on whole milk and the difference in the shine alone is unreal. I think if the 50 were on whole milk theyd look a lot better but seemingly thats a thing about milk replacer is they wont have the same shine as whole milk but they should have a better thrive would I be right in saying that?
Also just this morning now im after noticing maybe about 10 out of the 50 are scouring all still lively and sucking though so dont think I should be overly worried? Will keep an eye on them over next few days and will buy a tub of milkshake to see if that will settle their dungs.
All advice re calf feeding appreciated thanks

What powder are you using? I could never get mine to do well on a high p skim based powder. A man recommended vitalac red to me as an easy to use and safe powder (as in if you want to mix in some whole milk if you have it or if the mix isn't 100% accurate, it still shouldn't cause any upsets) and they improved almost overnight. Have used it since.

mahoney_j

Mf310 wrote: »

Well lads have a group of 50 calves here all 2weeks-a month old on milk replacer , first year using milk replacer and not overly convinced on it to be honest have another group of 10 younger calves beside the 50 on whole milk and the difference in the shine alone is unreal. I think if the 50 were on whole milk theyd look a lot better but seemingly thats a thing about milk replacer is they wont have the same shine as whole milk but they should have a better thrive would I be right in saying that?
Also just this morning now im after noticing maybe about 10 out of the 50 are scouring all still lively and sucking though so dont think I should be overly worried? Will keep an eye on them over next few days and will buy a tub of milkshake to see if that will settle their dungs.
All advice re calf feeding appreciated thanks

Calves in milk replacer after 3 days here ,no comparison to calves in whole milk .milk replacer if it’s decent mixed at same rate correct temp is a consistent feed ,whole milk is not especially when cows in/out I’d never rear calves in whole milk again as couldn’t get the growth rates and often got nutritional scours

whelan2

Have a cow calved yesterday. Something I'd sat stood on 2 of her teats. A front one and back one on opposite side. The front one is really damaged . I milked her on 3 teats this morning. I put green cream- dermogel I think on her this morning. Is there anything to heal it? Are those bandages any good. She's an 8th calver and bag is low

orm0nd

Mf310 wrote: »

Well lads have a group of 50 calves here all 2weeks-a month old on milk replacer , first year using milk replacer and not overly convinced on it to be honest have another group of 10 younger calves beside the 50 on whole milk and the difference in the shine alone is unreal. I think if the 50 were on whole milk theyd look a lot better but seemingly thats a thing about milk replacer is they wont have the same shine as whole milk but they should have a better thrive would I be right in saying that?
Also just this morning now im after noticing maybe about 10 out of the 50 are scouring all still lively and sucking though so dont think I should be overly worried? Will keep an eye on them over next few days and will buy a tub of milkshake to see if that will settle their dungs.
All advice re calf feeding appreciated thanks

Only use acified new milk here exception would be bought in heifer calves.

Tried a couple of different mr over the years but wasn't impressed

If milk base price hit the high 30s we might reconsider.

TooOldBoots

Mf310 wrote: »

Well lads have a group of 50 calves here all 2weeks-a month old on milk replacer , first year using milk replacer and not overly convinced on it to be honest have another group of 10 younger calves beside the 50 on whole milk and the difference in the shine alone is unreal. I think if the 50 were on whole milk theyd look a lot better but seemingly thats a thing about milk replacer is they wont have the same shine as whole milk but they should have a better thrive would I be right in saying that?
Also just this morning now im after noticing maybe about 10 out of the 50 are scouring all still lively and sucking though so dont think I should be overly worried? Will keep an eye on them over next few days and will buy a tub of milkshake to see if that will settle their dungs.
All advice re calf feeding appreciated thanks

You may be giving them too much liquid, on milk replacer there dung should look like lumpy gray yogurt. There's no one milk replacer that works for everyone, find one that works best for your regeme, things like water hardness effect the way it mixes so you need to experiment.
One of the advantages of milk replacer over whole milk is you can give it to the calf at a higher temperature, it gives a boost to the calf and warms them up.

Mf310

Injuryprone wrote: »

What powder are you using? I could never get mine to do well on a high p skim based powder. A man recommended vitalac red to me as an easy to use and safe powder (as in if you want to mix in some whole milk if you have it or if the mix isn't 100% accurate, it still shouldn't cause any upsets) and they improved almost overnight. Have used it since.

Using a trouw nutrition 24%P whey powder, nearly to the end of the pallet so I reckon I will change to a different powder, with milk price as good I would like to stay on milk replacer really. Vitalac red could be a plan thanks

Mf310

mahoney_j wrote: »

Calves in milk replacer after 3 days here ,no comparison to calves in whole milk .milk replacer if it’s decent mixed at same rate correct temp is a consistent feed ,whole milk is not especially when cows in/out I’d never rear calves in whole milk again as couldn’t get the growth rates and often got nutritional scours

What replacer you using Mj? Interesting theory, hear some lads saying the same and others saying the complete opposite! So many milk replacers on the market you wouldnt know what to go for and all with different mixing rates and some with whats quoted on the bag calves will melt away so you have to up the powder rates.

jaymla627

blackdog1 wrote: »

If you don't remember this was done as the norm 15 years ago. You could actually go see daughters and milking figures of the bull with 100% confidence of those figures. You could even go on farms and compare mother and daughters. Genomic should have been e used by the ai companies to narrow down the number of test bulls they have not to use farmers herds as essentially test dummies

Genomics works,its just the Irish have it arseways, cant fault the semex genomic bulls been used here the past 8 years when heifers like this are coming through

Reggie.

Mf310 wrote: »

What replacer you using Mj? Interesting theory, hear some lads saying the same and others saying the complete opposite! So many milk replacers on the market you wouldnt know what to go for and all with different mixing rates and some with whats quoted on the bag calves will melt away so you have to up the powder rates.

Always give 100g more than recommended

Morris Moss

whelan2 wrote: »

Have a cow calved yesterday. Something I'd sat stood on 2 of her teats. A front one and back one on opposite side. The front one is really damaged . I milked her on 3 teats this morning. I put green cream- dermogel I think on her this morning. Is there anything to heal it? Are those bandages any good. She's an 8th calver and bag is low

Fuciderm is what I give cows with cow pox, it'll heal any cuts or scabs but it takes a lot of time ( apply twice a day for months) I don't think ya can get it from a vet anymore think it's doctors prescription only, but it'll definitely work.

Morris Moss

jaymla627 wrote: »

Genomics works,its just the Irish have it arseways, cant fault the semex genomic bulls been used here the past 8 years when heifers like this are coming through

I assume your cows are on TMR? Hearing a lot of lads going using American bulls, are they able to perform on grass and a few kgs of nuts I wonder?

mahoney_j

Mf310 wrote: »

What replacer you using Mj? Interesting theory, hear some lads saying the same and others saying the complete opposite! So many milk replacers on the market you wouldnt know what to go for and all with different mixing rates and some with whats quoted on the bag calves will melt away so you have to up the powder rates.

Shine oad feeding 750 gramms per day ,free access to 18% nut ,water hay and maize silage

mahoney_j

Morris Moss wrote: »

I assume your cows are on TMR? Hearing a lot of lads going using American bulls, are they able to perform on grass and a few kgs of nuts I wonder?

No bother personally think the emphasis here is skewed too far in favour of grass and not the cows requirements

Mooooo

jaymla627 wrote: »

Genomics works,its just the Irish have it arseways, cant fault the semex genomic bulls been used here the past 8 years when heifers like this are coming through

What/ how are the 5th lactation cows from those sires doing?

blackdog1

jaymla627 wrote: »

Genomics works,its just the Irish have it arseways, cant fault the semex genomic bulls been used here the past 8 years when heifers like this are coming through

No one is saying genomics doesn't work Jay but it does turn a 6 year process into a 2 year process for the ai companies with no saving for the farmers as the cost of a straw stays the same. No one can tell me a bull with under 60% reliability is better than a bull with 100% reliability. I still use genomic bulls on this farm but it's a much smaller percentage than I used too. I regularly will use old bulls once I calve their daughters and compare them to the mothers figures and type. Genomics can't predict temperament, teat length, milking speed or calving difficulty as far as I'm aware. I'm open to correction

green daries

Wildsurfer wrote: »

So you think everyone should use proven bulls, and nobody should use test bulls? Think about that one for a minute...

No wild I'm not saying that at all black dog has explained it better than me
Genomic testing should be used to whittle down the test bulls and these bulls would be used on farm usually farmers would be compensated to use them at the early stages and then given as free when there were calves on the ground and eventually a small fee to use him on repeats etc this would be done on an ever widening circle of farmers as the actual proofs came through for the milking daughters obviously this process is sped up by checking the lineage and back breeding of the bull

Base price

mahoney_j wrote: »

Shine oad feeding 750 gramms per day ,free access to 18% nut ,water hay and maize silage

Shine OAD is a good CMR but it's awfully expensive when you have to exponentially increase the powder rate to 750g per calf.

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

Shine OAD is a good CMR but it's awfully expensive when you have to exponentially increase the powder rate to 750g per calf.

Ah you know these dairy farmers base.....money is no object

straight

Reggie. wrote: »

Ah you know these dairy farmers base.....money is no object

Working hard enough for it lad. Pure slavery at times actually.

newholland mad

straight wrote: »

Working hard enough for it lad. Pure slavery at times actually.

True. It's actually desperately unfair that nobody else has to do any work, feet up. Probably why there is no money in drystock farming, lazy buggers.