Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

aloyisious

Paul_Hacket wrote: »

The thing about this election is that it comes down to which section of the electorate turns out. The country is a mess economically and was long before Covid 19 hit. Therefore the dems need to make this about the economy and real world issues that affect everyone, like health care. Yeah, I know Trump has boasted endlessly about this being the greatest economy ever. Really? If that's so how come literally 50% of the US population have less than $500 in saving and are one paycheck away from bankruptcy. That's not a booming economy - that's a serf economy where most people, even the vanishing middle class are simply failing.

If they do I am shutting my business down and getting out of here. Because it frigging sucks here right now.

A thing that surprises me is that I can't find a Dem Party Rep for the economy. There probably is one, to respond to Kudlow and the other Admin spokesperson. Don't the national parties have spokespersons on the economy? Is the quote "it's The ECONOMY [alternately - DEFICIT] Stupid" out of fashion because it's Clinton-esque?

What happened to Trump's repair the national infrastructure plan which surely would have been a strong on-the-jobs-front winner for the economy? His latest move is to threaten U.S manufacturers with sanctions if they move jobs abroad.

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

What happened to Trump's repair the national infrastructure plan which surely would have been a strong on-the-jobs-front winner for the economy? His latest move is to threaten U.S manufacturers with sanctions if they move jobs abroad.

The same thing that happened to his repeal and replace plan. There never was one. The same as his 'plan' to build a wall, he never had one.

He has no plan, beyond slogans. It is evident throughout his life. No real plans, plenty of style and hype and PR over any substance. From the reporting from the WH, it would appear that he doesn't like detail, much prefers the spotlight and the press briefings where he can wax lyrical about future plans.

Carfacemandog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Both parties have sold out the Middle Class for decades in the name of globalised profits. The Dems in particular are lucky that the Republicans have refused to adopt any policies of substance for the last few decades. The black community and rust belt have been fed lies and ignored, expected to row in behind the party of the working man schtick that the Dems through out. You saw some of that in 2016

What's funny/ironic about this is that the Dems moved to this line of thinking for the explicit reason that Americans outright rejected anything else, that might better look after them, during Reagans presidency. This is clear to see from the 1980, '84 and '88 elections which the republicans won 44, 49(!) and 40 states in respectively while picking up 489, 525 and 426 EC votes.

It is telling that this came about right as the Baby Boomers became the dominant voting bloc and flat out rejected anything resembling socialism or socialist tinged policies, despite the fact that socialist policies are what rebuilt their country from the Great Depression (FDRs New Deal) and through to some of the incredibly ambitious public infrastructural works like Eisenhowers Interstate system.

This is the primary reason that Bill Clinton and the corporate element of the 'New Democrats' came to prominence over the 1990s, because anyone fighting for 'the little man' was roundly rejected and mocked for it.

That Boomer generation benefitted immensely from socialism and wealth distribution, both as an overall nation and on an individual level where someone could live comfortably and rent their own place while paying through college call on a waitresses salary. As soon as they possibly could though, they aggressively and continuously worked to hoard all of the money for themselves to the point of completely destroying their own prospects if they were not already rich, leading to wealth inequality rarely (ever?) seen in a developed capitalist democracy. They have literally rewritten 'the American dream' from being about even the poorest being able to live comfortably, to wing about the richest getting as unimaginably rich as possible while the rest race towards destitution, and in turn have been openly hostile to any efforts to fix the system they have so thoroughly broken.

We can talk about governments until the cows come home, but the fact is that at the end of the day in a functional democracy, the people deserve the governance they get - and the Baby Boomer have been directly responsible for the destruction of the historically prosperous situation they themselves were born into. They, as a generation, are the single worst thing to ever happen to the United States and the interest of its citizens as a whole.

There is no irony lost in the fact these same people are the ones who backed Trump the most and moaned the loudest about the ramifications of governance that they absolutely insisted upon at the time, because as the most spoiled generation perhaps in the history of recorded history, they are prone to act as spoiled children quite often do even into adulthood.

* Just clarifying, this is talking about Baby Boomers as an overall generation and not every single person within that age bracket in the US.

* Also to add, this is as much a generational issue as a partisan one. While the republicans double, treble and quadruple down on it far more, one just needs to look at the terrified reaction of many who will be voting for Biden in the coming weeks to Bernie Sanders a few months back, for proposing things that in Europe or other parts of the developed world are barely even discussed due to just making sense across almost the entire political spectrum, such as healthcare.

aloyisious

Deleted my original post content in honour of the citizens of Portland, Oregon, and their city's mayor responding to the actions of outsiders precipitating the latest round of violence there. My thoughts are with them in their hour of need of relief and respite from national politicians using them for self-benefit alone. My edit was after 11PM yesterday.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

What's funny/ironic about this is that the Dems moved to this line of thinking for the explicit reason that Americans outright rejected anything else, that might better look after them, during Reagans presidency. This is clear to see from the 1980, '84 and '88 elections which the republicans won 44, 49(!) and 40 states in respectively while picking up 489, 525 and 426 EC votes.

It is telling that this came about right as the Baby Boomers became the dominant voting bloc and flat out rejected anything resembling socialism or socialist tinged policies, despite the fact that socialist policies are what rebuilt their country from the Great Depression (FDRs New Deal) and through to some of the incredibly ambitious public infrastructural works like Eisenhowers Interstate system.

This is the primary reason that Bill Clinton and the corporate element of the 'New Democrats' came to prominence over the 1990s, because anyone fighting for 'the little man' was roundly rejected and mocked for it.

That Boomer generation benefitted immensely from socialism and wealth distribution, both as an overall nation and on an individual level where someone could live comfortably and rent their own place while paying through college call on a waitresses salary. As soon as they possibly could though, they aggressively and continuously worked to hoard all of the money for themselves to the point of completely destroying their own prospects if they were not already rich, leading to wealth inequality rarely (ever?) seen in a developed capitalist democracy. They have literally rewritten 'the American dream' from being about even the poorest being able to live comfortably, to wing about the richest getting as unimaginably rich as possible while the rest race towards destitution, and in turn have been openly hostile to any efforts to fix the system they have so thoroughly broken.

We can talk about governments until the cows come home, but the fact is that at the end of the day in a functional democracy, the people deserve the governance they get - and the Baby Boomer have been directly responsible for the destruction of the historically prosperous situation they themselves were born into. They, as a generation, are the single worst thing to ever happen to the United States and the interest of its citizens as a whole.

There is no irony lost in the fact these same people are the ones who backed Trump the most and moaned the loudest about the ramifications of governance that they absolutely insisted upon at the time, because as the most spoiled generation perhaps in the history of recorded history, they are prone to act as spoiled children quite often do even into adulthood.

* Just clarifying, this is talking about Baby Boomers as an overall generation and not every single person within that age bracket in the US.

* Also to add, this is as much a generational issue as a partisan one. While the republicans double, treble and quadruple down on it far more, one just needs to look at the terrified reaction of many who will be voting for Biden in the coming weeks to Bernie Sanders a few months back, for proposing things that in Europe or other parts of the developed world are barely even discussed due to just making sense across almost the entire political spectrum, such as healthcare.

We saw similar stuff in Ireland during the recession. Think it was as low as the 45+ age group lost no income on average as we had double digit unemployment and tens of thousands of graduates leaving each year. We had well-orchestrated campaigns and marches about means-testing medical cards for those retirees on incomes that were in the top 20 percentile of the working population.

Rjd2

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Both parties have sold out the Middle Class for decades in the name of globalised profits. The Dems in particular are lucky that the Republicans have refused to adopt any policies of substance for the last few decades. The black community and rust belt have been fed lies and ignored, expected to row in behind the party of the working man schtick that the Dems through out. You saw some of that in 2016

Yep.

Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could he not?

However right now , America needs a FDR and Biden most certainly is not.

The man's major strategy is appealing to upper class white suburban republicans who don't care about inequality and horrible wars (hi war criminals Frum, Kristol etc) but just find Trump really coarse and not reverential enough of Zombie Reganism.

In 2024 though we will see a much more shrewder version of Trump run on a Strasserism ticket and its going to be a much scarier election than this.

Rjd2

Rjd2 wrote: »

Yep.

Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could he not?

However right now , America needs a FDR and Biden most certainly is not.

The man's major strategy is appealing to upper class white suburban republicans who don't care about inequality and horrible wars (hi war criminals Frum, Kristol etc) but just find Trump really coarse and not reverential enough of Zombie Reganism.

In 2024 though we will see a much more shrewder version of Trump run on a Strasserism ticket and its going to be a much scarier election than this.

Strange, I thought the problem with Biden was his radical socialism.

Rjd2

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange, I thought the problem with Biden was his radical socialism.

If only.;)

Rjd2

On that, I have sympathy for right wingers who claim the term racist, nazi etc is redundant as it gets thrown around so much its nearly lost its meaning.

However to counteract I wish right wingers would stop screaming marxist at the left especially in America, the vast majority of the public don't know what it is and many on the left especially in America would reject that label instantly.

Leroy42

Rjd2 wrote: »

On that, I have sympathy for right wingers who claim the term racist, nazi etc is redundant as it gets thrown around so much its nearly lost its meaning.

However to counteract I wish right wingers would stop screaming marxist at the left especially in America, the vast majority of the public don't know what it is and many on the left especially in America would reject that label instantly.

They haven't lost their meaning, but it certainly appears that more and more people are willing to excuse the practices on the basis that in total the current issue is not as bad as previous and so to link them is a step too far.

But any reading of history, and in particular the practices of the likes of Hitler during the years of achieving and consolidating power, can see the clear simularities.

looksee

The only thing that matters at the moment is to get Trump out. Biden and the Democrats may or may not be the ideal solution for the US but even a less than ideal solution is better for the rest of the world than the situation there at the moment.

Alternatively it may be that the US, like the UK has to go through this appalling stage before they get some sense and finally get rid of populist leaders and bar stool/ entertainment politics, and pull the place back together. By which time they will be rescuing a third world country and it could take generations.

Just because Democrats are the only alternative to Republicans doesn't mean they are perfect, just that they are not as bad.

pixelburp

The irony in the constant accusation that the Democrats are indulging in "identity politics" for the campaign is that in reality it's the sum total content of Trump's own Campaign since the cycle properly started. This constant - and it is constant - screeching of "Radical Left" this and that, of apocalyptic visions for America if some obscene caricature of Biden gets elected; apparently flanked by AoC, ANTIFA and all those other things the Failed White demographic are afraid of.

What is that if not identity politics ramped to the nth degree? And yet it's Biden and the Democrats who are constantly gaslit as being obsessed with "identity politics". It's quite a masterful stroke of projection and confirmation bias really, against Trump's Campaign and its vulgar noisy painting of the Democrats as demonic "leftists"

Igotadose

In other #IMPOTUS news, seems like the DOJ meddled in the Russia investigation to not examine the #IMPOTUS ties to Russia. This was under Rosenstein:

"Justice Dept. Never Fully Examined Trump’s Ties to Russia, Ex-Officials Say
The former deputy attorney general maneuvered to keep investigators from completing an inquiry into whether the president’s personal and financial links to Russia posed a national security threat.

The special counsel who finished the investigation, Robert S. Mueller III, secured three dozen indictments and convictions of some top Trump advisers, and he produced a report that outlined Russia’s wide-ranging operations to help get Mr. Trump elected and the president’s efforts to impede the inquiry.

But law enforcement officials never fully investigated Mr. Trump’s own relationship with Russia, even though some career F.B.I. counterintelligence investigators thought his ties posed such a national security threat that they took the extraordinary step of opening an inquiry into them. Within days, the former deputy attorney general Rod J. Rosenstein curtailed the investigation without telling the bureau, all but ensuring it would go nowhere."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/30/us/politics/trump-russia-justice-department.html

aloyisious

Carfacemandog wrote: »

What's funny/ironic about this is that the Dems moved to this line of thinking for the explicit reason that Americans outright rejected anything else, that might better look after them, during Reagans presidency. This is clear to see from the 1980, '84 and '88 elections which the republicans won 44, 49(!) and 40 states in respectively while picking up 489, 525 and 426 EC votes.

It is telling that this came about right as the Baby Boomers became the dominant voting bloc and flat out rejected anything resembling socialism or socialist tinged policies, despite the fact that socialist policies are what rebuilt their country from the Great Depression (FDRs New Deal) and through to some of the incredibly ambitious public infrastructural works like Eisenhowers Interstate system.

This is the primary reason that Bill Clinton and the corporate element of the 'New Democrats' came to prominence over the 1990s, because anyone fighting for 'the little man' was roundly rejected and mocked for it.

That Boomer generation benefitted immensely from socialism and wealth distribution, both as an overall nation and on an individual level where someone could live comfortably and rent their own place while paying through college call on a waitresses salary. As soon as they possibly could though, they aggressively and continuously worked to hoard all of the money for themselves to the point of completely destroying their own prospects if they were not already rich, leading to wealth inequality rarely (ever?) seen in a developed capitalist democracy. They have literally rewritten 'the American dream' from being about even the poorest being able to live comfortably, to wing about the richest getting as unimaginably rich as possible while the rest race towards destitution, and in turn have been openly hostile to any efforts to fix the system they have so thoroughly broken.

We can talk about governments until the cows come home, but the fact is that at the end of the day in a functional democracy, the people deserve the governance they get - and the Baby Boomer have been directly responsible for the destruction of the historically prosperous situation they themselves were born into. They, as a generation, are the single worst thing to ever happen to the United States and the interest of its citizens as a whole.

There is no irony lost in the fact these same people are the ones who backed Trump the most and moaned the loudest about the ramifications of governance that they absolutely insisted upon at the time, because as the most spoiled generation perhaps in the history of recorded history, they are prone to act as spoiled children quite often do even into adulthood.

* Just clarifying, this is talking about Baby Boomers as an overall generation and not every single person within that age bracket in the US.

* Also to add, this is as much a generational issue as a partisan one. While the republicans double, treble and quadruple down on it far more, one just needs to look at the terrified reaction of many who will be voting for Biden in the coming weeks to Bernie Sanders a few months back, for proposing things that in Europe or other parts of the developed world are barely even discussed due to just making sense across almost the entire political spectrum, such as healthcare.

It's a shame if the Great American Dream which Trump is pushing under the MAGA label is actually an "I'm All Right Jack" reality to get a huge bank account, gated real estate and health insurance above all else, thereby increasing the level of societal disarray in the U.S. as if the great and good there have forgotten the causes behind the political turmoil leading to WW2.

Water John

Biden was always blue collar. Obama had him to swing the midwest. Biden has, in the moment of, the pandemic and economic downturn has designed some much more FDR type policies than he would normally reflect.

Man with broke phone

It seems everybody is moving out of the upper west side of new york. This is top liberal land. They put the homeless up in hotels there and now its being reported that moving trucks are like gold dust at the moment and whole apartment buildings are emptying out.

One was quoted as saying they fear their children will be attacked sexually, seems they dont feel safe with all these homeless ethnic minorities walking around.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/fleet-of-moving-trucks-mark-exodus-from-manhattans-troubled-upper-west-side/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwj0hanQ1sXrAhUzoXEKHWRaCTMQyM8BMAJ6BAgBEAY&usg=AOvVaw2k7EQCVZRNNiZNjv9QLsx3&ampcf=1


Will it sway the vote in new york, if all the liberals now run away. One woman said she is moving to Virginia, rumours the rich in Hollywood are all moving out now too. Is this the beginning of Trump climbing back up the mountain.

StringerBell

Man with broke phone wrote: »

It seems everybody is moving out of the upper west side of new york. This is top liberal land. They put the homeless up in hotels there and now its being reported that moving trucks are like gold dust at the moment and whole apartment buildings are emptying out.

One was quoted as saying they fear their children will be attacked sexually, seems they dont feel safe with all these homeless ethnic minorities walking around.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/fleet-of-moving-trucks-mark-exodus-from-manhattans-troubled-upper-west-side/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwj0hanQ1sXrAhUzoXEKHWRaCTMQyM8BMAJ6BAgBEAY&usg=AOvVaw2k7EQCVZRNNiZNjv9QLsx3&ampcf=1


Will it sway the vote in new york, if all the liberals now run away. One woman said she is moving to Virginia, rumours the rich in Hollywood are all moving out now too. Is this the beginning of Trump climbing back up the mountain.

Everybody? Tell you what, it would take a lot of everybody's leaving to turn New York or California from being solidly blue. On the other hand the more liberal voters you can spread around the country the better in the long run.....but really, everybody?

Man with broke phone

They are moving out because they cant live in a world governed by their policies. It seems they will not be voting red next time.

extra gravy

Man with broke phone wrote: »

It seems everybody is moving out of the upper west side of new york. This is top liberal land. They put the homeless up in hotels there and now its being reported that moving trucks are like gold dust at the moment and whole apartment buildings are emptying out.

One was quoted as saying they fear their children will be attacked sexually, seems they dont feel safe with all these homeless ethnic minorities walking around.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://nypost.com/2020/08/30/fleet-of-moving-trucks-mark-exodus-from-manhattans-troubled-upper-west-side/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwj0hanQ1sXrAhUzoXEKHWRaCTMQyM8BMAJ6BAgBEAY&usg=AOvVaw2k7EQCVZRNNiZNjv9QLsx3&ampcf=1


Will it sway the vote in new york, if all the liberals now run away. One woman said she is moving to Virginia, rumours the rich in Hollywood are all moving out now too. Is this the beginning of Trump climbing back up the mountain.

Eight trucks in two weeks wow. Did "everybody" in the upper west side manage to fit into them?

Man with broke phone

extra gravy wrote: »

Eight trucks in two weeks wow. Did "everybody" in the upper west side manage to fit into them?

Says there is ques out the door over at the local u haul, people trying to get trucks cant, the guy who set up the group that polices the subway is saying it, he is a very respectable guy, there is no need to try fiddle the numbers or play the words, people are moving out of new yorks desirable liberal area because either or both of the homeless being housed there through liberal policies or the businesses being kept closed through liberal policies.

You can play the numbers or screw what was said in the article all you want, its the beginning of the end. Let the police do their job will become a campaign slogan.

AbusesToilets

pixelburp wrote: »

The irony in the constant accusation that the Democrats are indulging in "identity politics" for the campaign is that in reality it's the sum total content of Trump's own Campaign since the cycle properly started. This constant - and it is constant - screeching of "Radical Left" this and that, of apocalyptic visions for America if some obscene caricature of Biden gets elected; apparently flanked by AoC, ANTIFA and all those other things the Failed White demographic are afraid of.

What is that if not identity politics ramped to the nth degree? And yet it's Biden and the Democrats who are constantly gaslit as being obsessed with "identity politics". It's quite a masterful stroke of projection and confirmation bias really, against Trump's Campaign and its vulgar noisy painting of the Democrats as demonic "leftists"

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Man with broke phone

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Nothing to do with an ongoing pandemic that killed 200,000 Americans?

The reporters are asking the people and the people are saying they dont feel safe there anymore.

Leroy42

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Says there is ques out the door over at the local u haul, people trying to get trucks cant, the guy who set up the group that polices the subway is saying it, he is a very respectable guy, there is no need to try fiddle the numbers or play the words, people are moving out of new yorks desirable liberal area because either or both of the homeless being housed there through liberal policies or the businesses being kept closed through liberal policies.

You can play the numbers or screw what was said in the article all you want, its the beginning of the end. Let the police do their job will become a campaign slogan.

They are moving out because the essence of NY is being able to go out and eat, to party, to meet up, shopping, to work. ATM all that is stopped and these people are paying massive rents for tiny apartments that were never designed for 24 hour constant living.

They are moving out because even heading down to go for a walk means getting in a lift with countless other people with the possible infection.

They are moving out to more space, for probably less money. They can work from home so the location is no longer the benefit it once was.

It has nothing to do with politics.

Man with broke phone

Leroy42 wrote: »

They are moving out because the essence of NY is being able to go out and eat, to party, to meet up, shopping, to work. ATM all that is stopped and these people are paying massive rents for tiny apartments that were never designed for 24 hour constant living.

They are moving out because even heading down to go for a walk means getting in a lift with countless other people with the possible infection.

They are moving out to more space, for probably less money. They can work from home so the location is no longer the benefit it once was.

It has nothing to do with politics.

But all the reporters who are there asking people are saying different. They dont feel safe. They dont like the homeless all over the place, people are getting mugged, kids are afraid. Everything is closed.

All things that come directly from the liberal policy of lockdown and homeless relocation.

They are like refugees running to towns that are safe havens. They want to go to cities where the rich can carry guns, the liberal experiment is over for them.

Nobody mentions a fear of catching covid.

serfboard

In 2017, the New York Post was reported to be the preferred newspaper of U.S. President Donald Trump, who maintains frequent contact with its owner, Rupert Murdoch.

A Murdoch-owned rag that's Donald Trump's favourite "newspaper"?

Has about as much credibility as Fox or OAN.

Igotadose

Man with broke phone wrote: »

But all the reporters who are there asking people are saying different. They dont feel safe. They dont like the homeless all over the place, people are getting mugged, kids are afraid. Everything is closed.

All things that come directly from the liberal policy of lockdown and homeless relocation.

They are like refugees running to towns that are safe havens. They want to go to cities where the rich can carry guns, the liberal experiment is over for them.

Nobody mentions a fear of catching covid.

Murdoch owned paper interviews once famous vigilante gadfly Curtis Sliwa and sure enough, everythings going to hell. Try finding a place on the UWS once Covids calmed down. In 2015 best I found there was $3000 month for a dark nasty dump. We lived there a year after we moved out it was immediately rented for $3600.


I can go on at some length about life in NYC. There is in fact a thread about it just this week. The place is and always will be a kip. But there's ALWAYS been a big population turnover there and there is one now. People foolishly will move there in the future.

ArmaniJeanss

Whilst the story isn't necessarily false....

It should be pointed out that the New York Post is Murdoch owned, tabloidy in the same prone-to-exaggeration fashion as his UK tabloids, very conservative and pro-Republican, and extremely pro-Trump.
Added to that the Guardian Angel guy is looking to get the nod for GOP candidate for Mayor next year.

So it may be somewhat true, but definitely not be relied to be the whole truth.

TomOnBoard

The Appeals Court hearing the case that Judge Sullivan must drop the case against Michael Flynn has decided in an 8-2 decision that the case should remain active and continue under the stewardship of Judge Sullivan.

Interesting and welcome outcome that will force Trump to put up or shut up in relation to pardoning or commuting Flynn.

It also scores one for the judiciary as part of the 3 axes of Government in that it seems to be the only branch that is exercising relative independence, given the ****show that is Congressional oversight.

aloyisious

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The Appeals Court hearing the case that Judge Sullivan must drop the case against Michael Flynn has decided in an 8-2 decision that the case should remain active and continue under the stewardship of Judge Sullivan.

Interesting and welcome outcome that will force Trump to put up or shut up in relation to pardoning or commuting Flynn.

It also scores one for the judiciary as part of the 3 axes of Government in that it seems to be the only branch that is exercising relative independence, given the ****show that is Congressional oversight.

The same two judges, Henderson and Rao, who ordered Judge Sullivan not to hear the case against Flynn and drop his plan for an independent lawyer to review the AG Barr & DOJ move to drop the charges against Flynn dissented in today's ruling. Sullivan hadn't even begun to make any decision on the Flynn case before DOJ tried to pre-empt his hearing the Flynn case.

Mindful of the fact that Obama warned Trump against employing Flynn, It'd be good to find out if Flynn made any compromising guilty admissions to Don Trump or any of his fellow Admin team members in relation to the charges he pleaded guilty to in court long before Sullivan, Henderson, Rao or even AG Barr became involved in the case.

TomOnBoard

aloyisious wrote: »

The same two judges, Henderson and Rao, who ordered Judge Sullivan not to hear the case against Flynn and drop his plan for an independent lawyer to review the AG Barr & DOJ move to drop the charges against Flynn dissented in today's ruling. Sullivan hadn't even begun to make any decision on the Flynn case before DOJ tried to pre-empt his hearing the Flynn case.

Mindful of the fact that Obama warned Trump against employing Flynn, It'd be good to find out if Flynn made any compromising guilty admissions to Don Trump or any of his fellow Admin team members in relation to the charges he pleaded guilty to in court long before Sullivan, Henderson, Rao or even AG Barr became involved in the case.

It wasn't just Obama who advised against hiring Flynn.

Chris Christie, who had led the Transition Team warned against Flynn also, advising that he suffered from poor judgement and extreme foreign policy positions.

Those warnings were given at a time when people weren't even fully aware of Flynn's strong ties to Turkey and his involvement in a kidnapping plot to help Erdogan's regime. And those latter matters haven't even formed a large part of the Flynn investigation.

EDit: the big one to watch regarding anything Flynn might have said/done to/with other Administration people will be the fallout from the Steve Bannon arrest. If Bannon flips to SDNY, he must tell them absolutely EVERYTHING he knows of possible crimes to get a deal.