Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Bozacke

stefanovich wrote: »

Fauci said masks didn't work, so did our own government!

That’s a misinterpretation of history. First off no one ever said masks don’t work. Yes, in the early days of COVID, back in March Fauci and others did downplay the use of masks, but a lot of that had to do with the fear citizens would deplete the limited supply of masks and there wouldn’t be enough N-95 masks available for healthcare workers. As early as April 3rd, Fauci started advocating the use of masks or any face covering available. This message has been very clear from Fauci, the CDC, WHO and our government for 6 months now, yet there are still idiot anti-maskers protesting in Dublin and around the world.

So who do you think is putting the ant-mask protest idea into their heads? Trump, American right wing protests, Pence and Atlas.

valoren

He appeared as if he was the challenger in that debate and that's why this is effectively a done deal. It's an indication of how he operates politically i.e. the outsider calling out the insiders. You can't approach a debate with such a mindset but he did. It's all he knows. He's been on the inside so to speak for almost four years and he's got nothing of any substance, nothing which can sway undecided’s left to attack. He’s got no coherent policies and didn’t articulate any either last night. Biden has actual policies but he lacks Trump’s sole carnival barker skill for distilling them to “bumper sticker” sound bites. Trump's cake is baked because he is still single-mindedly divisive. In a Presidential debate that’s not very Presidential. Red against Blue. Left against Right. It hasn’t resonated this time around, it has become exhausting. Nothing new arose here. We simply have a major difference between the two candidates. One who intends to continue with the same divisive firebrand quality that has been his signature and one who was behaving as an American President, one who, even if he doesn’t truly believe it, says he will listen to the facts, listen to experts etc. That "I will serve you all" rhetoric will work it's charm. There seems to be an appetite for having an actual President again. It's too exhausting to imagine four more years of division. That’s what will win it for Biden.

Quin_Dub

stefanovich wrote: »

Fauci said masks didn't work, so did our own government!

Did he though?

As I recall what he said , which was in line with what was being said here and elsewhere was something more like "they weren't needed at this time in general use"

In large part because of the huge supply issues for PPE in the early days.

I do not believe he ever said "Masks don't work"

All_in_Flynn

salmocab wrote: »

Well then surely the 2 million he claims to have saved are down to Fauci? Or the bad handling your claiming of swine flu is nothing to do with Biden?
Utter nonsense the man in charge is in charge, I wouldn't be claiming everything is his fault but he played a major part in the bad handling of it and these attempts to blame anyone but Trump is pathetic.

You'll most likely not get a response to this as he's talked himself into a corner as per the norm for a lot of trumps supporters. They have been harping on about this 2m saved lives now when everyone and their dog knows he has failed spectacularly.

Trump ran a campaign in 2016 which told America that he would keep his promises unlike 'all the other politicians'. Build a wall, stop the immigrants etc etc etc. He has failed on nearly every metric you can think of and at the same time has divided a Nation and damaged relations with many of their Ally's. Gross incompetence doesn't do it justice.

I cannot fathom how he can possibly be re-elected but this is the world today. He has a chance but its a small one and I will be very happy to see him removed from office. He's bad for everyone, including his supporters and he is in it for nobody but himself.

I do have genuine concerns that he will not cede power easily though. That is unless he is obliterated in the EC votes. I think its going to be a messy first few weeks come November.

NaFirinne

President Trump was investigated for what Hillary did, impeached for what Biden did, blamed for what China did, blamed for what Obammy did - locking kids in cages from 2014 pictures and now being attacked for mentioning what Hunter did.

Also the Danish large research project into the effectiveness of wearing masks is not being published by medical journals as viewing it as too controversial...in other words masks are not as effective as they make out.

stefanovich

salmocab wrote: »

Well then surely the 2 million he claims to have saved are down to Fauci? Or the bad handling your claiming of swine flu is nothing to do with Biden?
Utter nonsense the man in charge is in charge, I wouldn't be claiming everything is his fault but he played a major part in the bad handling of it and these attempts to blame anyone but Trump is pathetic.

Fauci is not responsible for the economic support or the distribution of equipment and supplies.

Fauci should get credit for his advice and research.

salmocab

stefanovich wrote: »

Fauci is not responsible for the economic support or the distribution of equipment and supplies.

Fauci should get credit for his advice and research.

Jesus you’ve got it bad, so all the good things Trump bad things Fauci. I find it hard to believe that someone could actually believe this and not be thinking to themselves maybe just maybe I’m wrong.

Christy42

NaFirinne wrote: »

President Trump was investigated for what Hillary did, impeached for what Biden did, blamed for what China did, blamed for what Obammy did - locking kids in cages from 2014 pictures and now being attacked for mentioning what Hunter did.

Also the Danish large research project into the effectiveness of wearing masks is not being published by medical journals as viewing it as too controversial...in other words masks are not as effective as they make out.

It's impressive that you write that and never think that possibly Trump was projecting when blaming everyone else ever except himself.

Foxtrol

Trump was more composed last night than the first debate but I'm not sure who he appealed to than wasn't already part of his base. Maybe a GOP voter or two that were going to sit out the election based on the lunatic he appeared to be during the first debate, but who else? He spent the majority of his time either putting up weak defense or rambling about right wing conspiracy theories that will go over the head of most that aren't inside that bubble and likely voters anyway.

The one thing that last night really showed how idiotic the 'Biden is senile' play was over the last year from the Trump campaign.

Foxtrol

everlast75 wrote: »

Indeed. That line of attack only served to make Biden more impressive as he exceeded the low expectations set by Trump

That and the optics as a comparison side by side with Trump.

'My opponent is senile' but appears much more coherent than I am, actually answering the questions asked and being able to finish sentences.

The media generally snips lines or two from Trumps rambles for the news so for many they dont see how bad he is when trying to string a sentence together

duploelabs

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I watched the 1st half and thought Trump was a disaster! He brought all his Golden Oldies from his rallies and added absolutely nothing new. Lies and stupid promises trotted out by a carnival barker. Any person capable of critical thinking knows his BS promises are all show and no go! a Lamborghini with a diesel engine if there ever was one!

Ahem, bit of a dodgy analogy there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Trattori?wprov=sfla1

NaFirinne

valoren wrote: »

He appeared as if he was the challenger in that debate and that's why this is effectively a done deal. It's an indication of how he operates politically i.e. the outsider calling out the insiders. You can't approach a debate with such a mindset but he did. It's all he knows. He's been on the inside so to speak for almost four years and he's got nothing of any substance, nothing which can sway undecided’s left to attack. He’s got no coherent policies and didn’t articulate any either last night. Biden has actual policies but he lacks Trump’s sole carnival barker skill for distilling them to “bumper sticker” sound bites. Trump's cake is baked because he is still single-mindedly divisive. In a Presidential debate that’s not very Presidential. Red against Blue. Left against Right. It hasn’t resonated this time around, it has become exhausting. Nothing new arose here. We simply have a major difference between the two candidates. One who intends to continue with the same divisive firebrand quality that has been his signature and one who was behaving as an American President, one who, even if he doesn’t truly believe it, says he will listen to the facts, listen to experts etc. That "I will serve you all" rhetoric will work it's charm. There seems to be an appetite for having an actual President again. It's too exhausting to imagine four more years of division. That’s what will win it for Biden.

I think Trump was very poor in the 1st debate but he did beat Biden soundly in this 2nd debate.


Also I don't understand how people say he hasn't delivered on anything, consider the intensity of the Left to disrupt his presidency he still managed to achieve a huge amount.

hirondelle

NaFirinne wrote: »

President Trump was investigated for what Hillary did, impeached for what Biden did, blamed for what China did, blamed for what Obammy did - locking kids in cages from 2014 pictures and now being attacked for mentioning what Hunter did.

Also the Danish large research project into the effectiveness of wearing masks is not being published by medical journals as viewing it as too controversial...in other words masks are not as effective as they make out.

Can you point me to this Danish study and which journals have rejected it for publication?

pixelburp

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think Trump was very poor in the 1st debate but he did beat Biden soundly in this 2nd debate.


Also I don't understand how people say he hasn't delivered on anything, consider the intensity of the Left to disrupt his presidency he still managed to achieve a huge amount.

You can't blame "the left" when Trump controlled every branch of government for the first 2 years. Not a single one of his key campaign promises were delivered. Not least the repeal of healthcare. Again, he had a red Congress and senate yet missed the open goal. Trump has been more than capable of disrupting his own presidency without inventing phantom machinations of "the left"

hirondelle

NaFirinne wrote: »

Undoing the wrongs of the cabal of criminal politicians and their conspirators in the Left in america is what the man is to blame for.



I don't see how anyone can actualy stand by the likes of Biden and Hillary there all complete crooks who abuse their power to the extreme.


Charlie Haughy would be envious of these guys.

Which criminal politicians has he undone the wrongs on?

listermint

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think Trump was very poor in the 1st debate but he did beat Biden soundly in this 2nd debate.


Also I don't understand how people say he hasn't delivered on anything, consider the intensity of the Left to disrupt his presidency he still managed to achieve a huge amount.

But Trump owns the presidency, also owns the senate. the levers of power are in the GOP hands as they have been for years.

How do you explain that ?

ancapailldorcha

Posts with insults deleted. Using derogatory terms is not permitted here.

TomOnBoard

Foxtrol wrote: »

Trump was more composed last night than the first debate but I'm not sure who he appealed to than wasn't already part of his base. Maybe a GOP voter or two that were going to sit out the election based on the lunatic he appeared to be during the first debate, but who else? He spent the majority of his time either putting up weak defense or rambling about right wing conspiracy theories that will go over the head of most that aren't inside that bubble and likely voters anyway.

The one thing that last night really showed how idiotic the 'Biden is senile' play was over the last year from the Trump campaign.

I watched the 1st half and thought Trump was a disaster! He brought all his Golden Oldies from his rallies and added absolutely nothing new. Lies and stupid promises trotted out by a carnival barker. Any person capable of critical thinking knows his BS promises are all show and no go! a Lamborghini Huracan with a diesel engine if there ever was one!

EDIT: This was posted in the Presidential Election thread, not here.. why is it appearing here (for the 2nd time)?

NaFirinne

hirondelle wrote: »

Can you point me to this Danish study and which journals have rejected it for publication?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/top-scientific-journals-reject-controversial-danish-study-on-effectiveness-of-face-masks-against-coronavirus-report/ar-BB1aiLvF

Quin_Dub

hirondelle wrote: »

Can you point me to this Danish study and which journals have rejected it for publication?

If you want to feed your inner nerd , the actual Academic research paper is here

But the short version is that based on the study there wasn't any clear evidence yet to say if masks significantly reduce the risk of exposure to Covid-19.

It didn't make it worse though and might make it better and evidence from multiple other research efforts show a solid positive benefit - See here.

So in short, one specific piece of research came back with neutral results on the benefits of masks so we should all stop wearing them immediately and get back to licking doorknobs like normal people.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please don't use Youtube videos as arguments. Post deleted.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mod: Please don't use Youtube videos as arguments. Post deleted.

A post has been deleted. Please do not dump text from other sites here. Thanks.

Foxtrol

Trump's tweets again pointing to twitter polls is such a sign of weakness. It is the only thing he has to cling to.

Nody

NaFirinne wrote: »

Also I don't understand how people say he hasn't delivered on anything, consider the intensity of the Left to disrupt his presidency he still managed to achieve a huge amount.

Full control of the house, senate and him being the president he failed to deliver:

1. Locking up Clinton
2. Proving mail in fraud
3. Get a wall let alone get Mexico to pay for it
4. Remove Obamacare let alone replace it with "something better"
5. Stop immigration to USA
6. Clean up the swamp (he's had more people from his staff who've been convicted of crime than any other president)
7. Get a muslim ban implemented
8. Bring manufacturing (jobs) back
9. Renegotiate the Iran deal
10. ‘Bomb’ and/or ‘take the oil’ from ISIS

So with having control of all the relevant branches he failed deliver his own promises because of Leftists? Exactly how did they suddenly gain magical power to stop the house and senate to implement his promises?

Lolle06

stefanovich wrote: »

440 Million.

US is 60K cases a day with 300 million pop.

Europe is worse than the US right now.

How do you compare the population density between the USA and Europe?

Lolle06

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think Trump was very poor in the 1st debate but he did beat Biden soundly in this 2nd debate.


Also I don't understand how people say he hasn't delivered on anything, consider the intensity of the Left to disrupt his presidency he still managed to achieve a huge amount.

How exactly did he „beat Biden“ in the last debate? And what did Trump archieve really? Can you elaborate on this a bit more, please?

hirondelle

NaFirinne wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/top-scientific-journals-reject-controversial-danish-study-on-effectiveness-of-face-masks-against-coronavirus-report/ar-BB1aiLvF

You understand that studies get rejected all the time because they haven't been conducted with enough rigour, or contain errors etc? The claim by the author that it is being suppressed is somewhat hindered by him adding:

""They all said no," said Christian Torp-Pedersen, chief physician at North Zealand Hospital’s research department, who was involved in the study. "We cannot start discussing what they are dissatisfied with because, in that case, we must also explain what the study showed, and we do not want to discuss that until it is published." (my emphasis).

So, they could release the results online if they wish- so no suppression of the information, just an unwillingness to present the results to the journals in question prior to publication.

Bozacke

NaFirinne wrote: »

I think Trump was very poor in the 1st debate but he did beat Biden soundly in this 2nd debate.


Also I don't understand how people say he hasn't delivered on anything, consider the intensity of the Left to disrupt his presidency he still managed to achieve a huge amount.

Trump clearly lost both debates. I also don’t believe that at the end of the first debate you admitted that Trump lost or did poorly. This is a typical Trump supporter ploy, claiming a different opinion previously. If you did admit Trump lost or did poorly after the first debate, please provide a link to your post.

As far as the debate last night, Trump clearly lost. He spent the whole night claiming to be an outsider and lying. You can’t win a debate with lies. Lying may influence uninformed voters, but it doesn’t win debates.

spacecoyote

Leroy42 wrote: »

How so? What did Obama get wrong that Trump has corrected in regards to COVID?

If I remember correctly re both Swine Flu and Bird Flu, they were actually much more deadly than Covid-19 but considerably less transmissable.

The death rate from them was a much higher per cent than Covid, but you could only transmit them when you had symptoms so it was much easier to control the spread.

So, the argument that he made that it was much weaker than Covid by Trump, is not quite factually correct

AbusesToilets

One thing that I think Trump was right about is Biden, and the Democrats as a whole, failure of the black community. Biden said that crime bill brought in under Clinton was wrong, yet the disastrous effects of this have been known for decades now. The Democrats have nothing to reverse the damage it has wrought. The war on drugs continues, millions remain in prison on drug charges and many millions more labeled as felons.

The Obama presidency did little to change that, and iirc actively fought with states that legalised marijuana.