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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #5852
    bad2dabone
    Registered Users Posts: 6,333 ✭✭✭bad2dabone


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Yes, we in Europe did such a great job we are now a 200K cases a day.

    It's a worrying number, no doubt, but for context what's the population of the area we're seeing 200k cases in?


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    #5853
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Don't see Europe quoted as a place that got things right. Look more to South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Kerela Province in India and Australia.


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    #5854
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    bad2dabone wrote: »
    It's a worrying number, no doubt, but for context what's the population of the area we're seeing 200k cases in?

    440 Million.

    US is 60K cases a day with 300 million pop.

    Europe is worse than the US right now.


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    #5855
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Water John wrote: »
    Don't see Europe quoted as a place that got things right. Look more to South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Kerela Province in India and Australia.

    And yet Europeans are more critical of Trump then their own incompetent governments.


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    #5856
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,018 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Yes, we in Europe did such a great job we are now a 200K cases a day.
    bad2dabone wrote: »
    It's a worrying number, no doubt, but for context what's the population of the area we're seeing 200k cases in?

    That's sort of missing the point though.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that anywhere has done a perfect job on this - NZ might have some claim but there's no question that they are hugely helped by Geography.

    The issue is how Countries and governments are responding.

    Is any leader in Europe (or anywhere else) saying "It's going away" "We're are rounding the corner" "It's nearly gone" etc. when their country is seeing ~1000 people a day dying??

    Trump has been saying "We're just turning the corner" for weeks now - As John Oliver said ,when you're "turning the corner" for that long you're going round in circles.


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    #5857
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    stefanovich wrote: »
    And yet Europeans are more critical of Trump then their own incompetent governments.

    What are you talking about? Go read the coronavirus forum you’ll see plenty of people bashing our government and European governments. This thread is about trump.


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    #5858
    The Raging Bile Duct
    Registered Users Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭The Raging Bile Duct


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    That's sort of missing the point though.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting that anywhere has done a perfect job on this - NZ might have some claim but there's no question that they are hugely helped by Geography.

    The issue is how Countries and governments are responding.

    Is any leader in Europe (or anywhere else) saying "It's going away" "We're are rounding the corner" "It's nearly gone" etc. when their country is seeing ~1000 people a day dying??

    Trump has been saying "We're just turning the corner" for weeks now - As John Oliver said ,when you're "turning the corner" for that long you're going round in circles.

    Most countries would be actively increasing their testing rate to catch as many cases as possible and stop the spread. Trump? “Slow The Testing Down!”


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    #5859
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    MadYaker wrote: »
    What are you talking about? Go read the coronavirus forum you’ll see plenty of people bashing our government and European governments. This thread is about trump.

    And about how much better Biden would do... His track record would suggest otherwise.


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    #5860
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 50,813 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    stefanovich wrote: »
    440 Million.

    US is 60K cases a day with 300 million pop.

    Europe is worse than the US right now.

    Which is a lie. The USA is ahead of every european country in cases per 1 million population over the last 2 days if you ignore Vatican city and Andorra. And if you go further back it's still way ahead.
    Untitled Image




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    #5861
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    stefanovich wrote: »
    And about how much better Biden would do... His track record would suggest otherwise.

    His track record of what? What are you basing this on? The only, slightly comparable event is the H1N1 outbreak and based on the two then it has to be Biden all the way.

    The really scary aspect of COVID in the US, is that Trump has no plan. He doesn't think he needs to do anything different. He has 100% attached the outcome to a vaccine arriving, and people will just have to suffer an die until that point comes. He has nothing else.

    He has learnt nothing. He hasn't stated that he will massively invest in the CDC. That he will replace the WHO with something else to ensure this doesn't happen again. He is simply closing his eyes, crossing his fingers. His bet was that a vaccine would arrive before the election and that would be enough to carry him to victory. That is it.


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    #5862
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »
    Most countries would be actively increasing their testing rate to catch as many cases as possible and stop the spread. Trump? “Slow The Testing Down!”

    The US is testing more than anyone else in the world. He said if he slowed it down the number of cases would drop. This is correct.


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    #5863
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    His track record of what? What are you basing this on? The only, slightly comparable event is the H1N1 outbreak and based on the two then it has to be Biden all the way.

    Swine flu was way less lethal and handled terribly.


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    #5864
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,028 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    stefanovich wrote: »
    The US is testing more than anyone else in the world. He said if he slowed it down the number of cases would drop. This is correct.

    Nope

    The number of detections would fall.

    The number of actual cases would not.

    Can you understand the logic here?


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    #5865
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Swine flu was way less lethal and handled terribly.

    How so? What did Obama get wrong that Trump has corrected in regards to COVID?


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    #5866
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Nope

    The number of detections would fall.

    The number of actual cases would not.

    Can you understand the logic here?

    The number of reported cases would drop yes.

    Back in March the numbers were likely 10x what was reported.

    By testing more than anyone else in the world they are finding and isolating more.


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    #5867
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    How so? What did Obama get wrong that Trump has corrected in regards to COVID?

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992

    This article might help explain it.
    “It is purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history,” Ron Klain, who was Biden’s chief of staff at the time


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    #5868
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bad2dabone wrote: »

    I genuinely struggle to think how one could be happy with his performance so far as president and want it to continue for for more years.

    Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.


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    #5869
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,018 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    stefanovich wrote: »
    The number of reported cases would drop yes.

    Back in March the numbers were likely 10x what was reported.

    By testing more than anyone else in the world they are finding and isolating more.

    But they simply aren't even doing that.

    Yes - In absolute terms they might have the highest number of tests for a given period , but in terms of Tests per Million or any other per capita calculation they aren't even close to best in class.


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    #5870
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    stefanovich wrote: »
    The US is testing more than anyone else in the world. He said if he slowed it down the number of cases would drop. This is correct.

    No not correct, the number of confirmed cases would drop the actual number of cases would go up.


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    #5871
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    salmocab wrote: »
    No not correct, the number of confirmed cases would drop the actual number of cases would go up.

    You know what I mean.


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    #5872
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    stefanovich wrote: »
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/joe-biden-contain-h1n1-virus-232992

    This article might help explain it.

    From the very same article:
    Klain now says his comments, which were made at a biosecurity summit, referred solely to the administration’s difficulties in producing enough of an H1N1 vaccine to meet public demand. The Obama team, he says, quickly adapted to the situation, making choices that were starkly different from those the Trump administration would make 11 years later, such as quickly distributing emergency equipment from the federal stockpile, deferring to public health experts and having them take the lead on messaging.

    Did you not read the full article or just leave this, pretty significant, part out to try to make your case look better?


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    #5873
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    But they simply aren't even doing that.

    Yes - In absolute terms they might have the highest number of tests for a given period , but in terms of Tests per Million or any other per capita calculation they aren't even close to best in class.

    They are very near the top.
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-thousand-bar-chart?time=latest&country=AUS~AUT~BEL~CAN~DNK~EST~FIN~DEU~ISL~IND~ISR~ITA~JPN~NZL~NOR~RUS~SEN~SGP~ZAF~KOR~ESP~CHE~TWN~TUR~GBR~USA~IRL


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    #5874
    Bozacke
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Bozacke


    Don’t also forget the impact of Trump’s comments downplaying COVID, social distancing, masks and shutdowns worldwide. Even though many people know Trump is an idiot, as POTUS, many uninformed people worldwide believe him. If Trump wasn’t downplaying the virus and wasn’t critical of masks, do you think there would be as many ant-maskers in Ireland and the rest of Europe? A lot of Irish people laugh at Trump and America, but on the other hand, many copy America. I honestly feel, if Hillary was POTUS, the numbers not only in the US, but also Europe would be significantly lower.


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    #5875
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    From the very same article:



    Did you not read the full article or just leave this, pretty significant, part out to try to make your case look better?

    Yeah, he changed his tune as election neared. Surprising.


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    #5876
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Bozacke wrote: »
    Don’t also forget the impact of Trump’s comments downplaying COVID, social distancing, masks and shutdowns worldwide. Even though many people know Trump is an idiot, as POTUS, many uninformed people worldwide believe him. If Trump wasn’t downplaying the virus and wasn’t critical of masks, do you think there would be as many ant-maskers in Ireland and the rest of Europe? A lot of Irish people laugh at Trump and America, but on the other hand, many copy America. I honestly feel, if Hillary was POTUS, the numbers not only in the US, but also Europe would be significantly lower.

    Fauci said masks didn't work, so did our own government!


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    #5877
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Fauci said masks didn't work, so did our own government!

    The blame can go to absolutely anyone but the bloke in charge?


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    #5878
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    salmocab wrote: »
    The blame can go to absolutely anyone but the bloke in charge?

    Yes. You should blame the health expert giving the advice.


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    #5879
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,285 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Yes. You should blame the health expert giving the advice.

    Well then surely the 2 million he claims to have saved are down to Fauci? Or the bad handling your claiming of swine flu is nothing to do with Biden?
    Utter nonsense the man in charge is in charge, I wouldn't be claiming everything is his fault but he played a major part in the bad handling of it and these attempts to blame anyone but Trump is pathetic.


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    #5880
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Yeah, he changed his tune as election neared. Surprising.

    So did you post that article, which you did as proof that Biden had failed in handling the H1NI virus because you hadn't actually read it and thus didn't know he had changed, did read it but hoped I wouldn't or did read it and rather than state that it was meaningless went with it anyway?


    You could have picked any piece of evidence, I didn't force you to provide that link, and within one read even you admit, through gritted teeth and of course with the usual conspiracy nonsense tacked on, that the evidence that you provided doesn't even back up your position.


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    #5881
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,144 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Fauci said masks didn't work, so did our own government!

    Fauci said masks do work subsequent to the new research being found that a basic cotton mask is effective.
    He initially said routine wearing of masks for the public was not advised as he was concerned about shortage of supply of surgical and n95 masks for healthcare workers.
    He explains it better in this 60 minutes interview
    https://youtu.be/ssiLlfGT9gg at about 6 minutes in
    Do we now discredit all scientists because old research was found to be obsolete?


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