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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #3572
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    "Cult"
    People who support a candidate or party are not cult members.
    Are Democrat or Biden supporters also cult members? Are ff or labour etc supporters cult members too?

    Very childish. I thought this was supposed to be the politics form not current affairs

    You believe something because the leader has told you to. You go around telling people the leader's 'facts' like they're the word of God. The leader changes their mind and gives you new 'facts'. Without blinking you accept the new 'facts' and rationalise the change and why the old 'facts' no longer apply, never did or flat out never happened.

    Seems pretty cultish to me.


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    #3573
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,483 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Of course non whites can be racist, but it doesn't change the through process and who they would likely vote for.

    Trump deals in division, the very core of racism. It is you against them. Once you think you are part of the 'club' and thus winning, then jump in with the person that promises to deal with the 'others'.


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    #3574
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    kowloon wrote: »
    You believe something because the leader has told you to. You go around telling people the leader's 'facts' like they're the word of God. The leader changes their mind and gives you new 'facts'. Without blinking you accept the new 'facts' and rationalise the change and why the old 'facts' no longer apply, never did or flat out never happened.

    Seems pretty cultish to me.

    The world will get cooler- I don't believe that
    Coronavirus is not worse than the flu - I don't believe that

    Trump as president cutting taxes, promoting growth, creating jobs, scrapping regulations, enhancing border controls.
    I believe in them (if I were American)

    I would vote for the policies not the man.

    Some Trump supporters are racist. No doubt.

    Some Trump supporters are business owners who benefited from lowered taxes.

    Some Trump supporters are relying on their 401ks for retirement and see him as a better economic president.

    Some Trump supporters are worried about crime and see him as a better choice for law and order.

    A few examples out of a country with 320 million individual opinions and potential voting reasons

    You pigeonhole everyone in together and you lose sight of the reasons why people might vote for Trump.


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    #3575
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,129 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Trump tells us, he talked down the virus, then he tells us, he talked up the virus. Besides asking which is the truth and which is the lie, why would anyone vote into power a person talking that nonsense? Esp, instead of doing his job.


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    #3576
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Collins Dictionary defines

    "Racism is the belief that people of some races are inferior to others, and the behaviour which is the result of this belief. Racism also refers to the aspects of a society which prevent people of some racial groups from having the same privileges and opportunities as people from other races."

    https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/racism

    In the USA, it is almost impossible for anyone who is not white to be racist against white people. People who are not Caucasian are the only targets of white racism. However, even within ethnic groups some members will see themselves as superior to other members of that group, but seldom/never see themselves as superior to Caucasians. Within the Caucasian group, a form of 'racism' does exist in the way that people of the Jewish faith are often times treated as inferior, so that faith-based 'racism' is definitely a thing. In the past, that applied also to Catholics in parts of America, where the elites of the East Coast (WASPs) practised racism against Catholics and others. Again, in the past, peoples from particular countries such as Irish, Polish and the Italians were targets of racism. They in turn often exhibited racism towards Black Americans, Mexicans, Cubans, Chinese etc.

    So. Racism ebbs and flows within and between races, religions and ethnic groups. The principal form of racism in the US is that which is practised by white people against people of colour. Such people of colour do not practise racism against white people, although some will certainly express feelings of hatred against white people. The Black Power movement was an example of that.

    So, I think the statement that, in the US all whites are not racist, but many are is true. All US racists are white, Conservative and are Republican supporters, and most if not practically all are supporters of Trump. Put another way: All racists are Trump supporters but all Trump supporters are not racist.


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    #3577
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Trump support has been the most stable of any Presidency in history - Pretty universally terrible , but incredibly consistent. He has never broken outside of a ~5 point band in the 40% to 45% range.

    No matter what happens it doesn't move outside that range - News that is good bad or indifferent simply doesn't change his support to any great degree.

    ...

    What is it about Trump that makes him so consistently liked/disliked regardless of his behaviour?


    I think it's not so much that Trump is a unique (type of) US president, but that his presidency was born out of the Age of Social Media, and he happens to be a well-chosen candidate for those who would use it to manipulate public opinion.
    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    I think it's because his presidency is almost unique in the way that he's just left a vacuum in the middle of government. He doesn't stand for anything. He doesn't do very much. By and large, it's a presidency of empty rhetoric.

    So without much in the way of achievements to judge him on, people can't judge him on the basis of what he does, so instead judge him on the basis of how he makes them feel. And perhaps that doesn't change as much?

    Exactly: he was and still is a reality TV host, and thanks to the proliferation of social media bubbles and filters, it's paradoxically difficult for such a character to make people feel worse than when they signed up, because all criticism of their star is re-interpreted as sour grapes by the "haters" and - in their opinion - not directly related to what's happening in their own lives ... even if it is. You only have to listen to interviews with farmers and bible-belters and coal-miners and car-builders to appreciate the disconnect between the "personality of Trump" and the socio-economic carnage of his presidency.


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    #3578
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,011 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    I think it's because his presidency is almost unique in the way that he's just left a vacuum in the middle of government. He doesn't stand for anything. He doesn't do very much. By and large, it's a presidency of empty rhetoric.

    So without much in the way of achievements to judge him on, people can't judge him on the basis of what he does, so instead judge him on the basis of how he makes them feel. And perhaps that doesn't change as much?

    He has immense charisma.

    He knows like Ric Flair and other heels than when angering x ,,y is cheering on him on. Its similar to Boris for example.

    Obviously personality should not matter in politics but the vast majority of people vote for whoever they like and many vote against their own self interest.

    Irish people can't sneer to much, Bertie is still worryingly popular here and last time I checked he was one of the betting favs to replace Michael D.


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    #3579
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,979 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    CelticRambler wrote: »

    Exactly: he was and still is a reality TV host, and thanks to the proliferation of social media bubbles and filters, it's paradoxically difficult for such a character to make people feel worse than when they signed up, because all criticism of their star is re-interpreted as sour grapes by the "haters" and - in their opinion - not directly related to what's happening in their own lives ... even if it is. You only have to listen to interviews with farmers and bible-belters and coal-miners and car-builders to appreciate the disconnect between the "personality of Trump" and the socio-economic carnage of his presidency.

    Yes, another recent example: he disparaged the NFL (US football league) due to low ratings. Remember that he desperately tried to buy a team in the past but was rebuffed, was a backer of a failed alternative league in the '80s and anything that makes him look bad, he hates forever.

    Now, amidst all the mayhem due to Covid-19 in the US, something more-or-less like society-as-usual starts up, and the #IMPOTUS chooses to say something nasty about it because...well...ratings. So, remember, he'll always opt for the worst in everything.

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/16/trump-renews-attack-on-nfl-with-cratered-ratings-claim/


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    #3580
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,029 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Irish people can't sneer to much, Bertie is still worryingly popular here and last time I checked he was one of the betting favs to replace Michael D.

    That might wash if the issue with trump was solely the rampant, absolutely rampant corruption. Alas, it is not the only issue so is apples to oranges.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #3581
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,143 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    StringerBell wrote: »
    That might wash if the issue with trump was solely the rampant, absolutely rampant corruption. Alas, it is not the only issue so is apples to oranges.

    You can't deny that they both have that 'cute hoor' element about them


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    #3582
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,029 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    duploelabs wrote: »
    You can't deny that they both have that 'cute hoor' element about them

    Okay, I'll stipulate to that for argument sake and revert back to, besides that and the rampant corruption there isn't anything that says comparing like with like. Unless Bertie was a racist, locking kids in cages, anti immigration, chicken hawk who frequently fell over his tongue while trying to speak?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #3583
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    You pigeonhole everyone in together and you lose sight of the reasons why people might vote for Trump.

    We can definitely agree on that, it's the reason why the loudest Trump supporters, the really out there QAnon types, are the ones people assume are a 'typical' Trump supporter.


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    #3584
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    He wasn't elected by all americans, hell he wasn't even elected by the majority of the electorate.

    He was elected president by winning the electoral college. That's how their system works. Not everywhere is Ireland


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    #3585
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    kowloon wrote: »
    We can definitely agree on that, it's the reason why the loudest Trump supporters, the really out there QAnon types, are the ones people assume are a 'typical' Trump supporter.

    For sure. It's the every day person who is going to work every day , raising a family and trying to get by who are the real America

    It's not the Maga screaming , gun toting .....

    Nor is it the Black mask wearing, flag burning.....

    These are the extreme people who get all of the headlines.

    To put it short F these people. They are the divisive cancer


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    #3586
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭amandstu


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    He was elected president by winning the electoral college. That's how their system works. Not everywhere is Ireland

    And the suspicion is that Trump and his supporters do not respect the electoral system. Are not prepared to accept electoral defeat in any shape or form.
    Are DINOs (Democratic in name only)


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    #3587
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭briany


    amandstu wrote: »
    And the suspicion is that Trump and his supporters do not respect the electoral system. Are not prepared to accept electoral defeat in any shape or form.
    Are DINOs (Democrats in name only)

    It's not really a suspicion at this stage. Trump couldn't have said it any clearer himself.
    The only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. Remember that.

    So, we already know what Trump will say if he loses in November. And since Trump supporters parrot whatever Trump himself says, they'll say it too. And no matter how deep an investigation is made into a Biden win, no matter how clean it was found to be, Trump and his supporters wouldn't accept it.

    I mean, Trump even maintains that they tried to rig 2016 against him and that he really won the popular vote (note: he never launched an investigation to prove this), and that the crowds at his inauguration were much bigger than video evidence clearly showed. Kellyanne Conway even went on the news and started talking about 'alternative facts'. That's flat earth stuff. There are things that are demonstrably true being backed up by clear evidence. Not that this matters to Trump - the undermining of objective truth has been a major tactic of his whole presidential bid and subsequent administration.


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    #3588
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    He wasn't elected by all americans, hell he wasn't even elected by the majority of the electorate.

    Not only was he not elected by all Americans, but throughout his Presidency he has only represented his voters. In previous Administrations, Presidents worked for ALL the people in line with the Constitution. He excoriates anyone who didnt vote for him All.The.Time.


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    #3589
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Not only was he not elected by all Americans, but throughout his Presidency he has only represented his voters. In previous Administrations, Presidents worked for ALL the people in line with the Constitution. He excoriates anyone who didnt vote for him All.The.Time.

    This I can agree with. He only works for his supporters, backers and voters.

    Democrats would favour their supporters, backers and voters too.

    There is no real revelation there.


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    #3590
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,070 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    'A couple' of Whitehouse staff members have tested positive for Covid https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/09/16/white-house-staff-members-reportedly-test-positive-for-covid-19-less-than-24-hours-after-president-donald-trump-visited-philadelphia/


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    #3591
    Detritus70
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭Detritus70


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    This I can agree with. He only works for his supporters, backers and voters.

    Democrats would favour their supporters, backers and voters too.

    There is no real revelation there.

    I think you misunderstand. Trump only appeals to his base of crazies and loons, he is talking down 200000 deaths, talking about exploding trees, posts propaganda material featuring Russian jets and weapons, calling Biden a pedo, the usual mix of lies and dogwhistles.
    That means he is not reaching out to moderate voters, people who just want a job and security.
    Biden, as well as Obama have always reached out to everyone. There was never a sense of "with us or against us", which is really the hallmark of the Trump administration.
    Or when has Biden called any of his opponents "crazy" or "loser" or asked for them to be locked up?

    So, yes, you got it in one. Trump says "your on my side, or else fcuk you".
    He has alienated any followers he has had who held their nose whilst voting for him whilst doing exactly zero to gain any new support. Any women, blacks, Latinos, transgender or anyone with an ounce of sense would not vote for him again.
    Whilst Biden ist reaching out to everyone.
    So, will angry white trash and a handful of billionaires be enough to get Trump across the line?
    I doubt it.


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    #3592
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,440 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    However in the trump administration/campaign allowed the president to do that town hall late night should resign because that was an utter disaster. I mean joe Biden has been given the roadmap and if there’s a good moderator then last night showed that when trump can’t go rambling on and there is pushback it’s a mess.


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    #3593
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,544 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Trump at tonight's Q&A session with the media going on about unrequested mail-in ballot application forms being sent out to voters by governors while his Admin, if I understand things, sent out unrequested mail-in ballot application forms bearing his image to voters.

    I see he's learnt to politic with his statement that he thinks Dr Redfield didn't realise what he was saying when he said the anti-virus drug wouldn't be available to the public until mid/late next year, the rough-arming of the CDC by his DHSS appointee having gone pear-shaped due to the DHSS leaks and his implosion on facebook. Even Scott got challenged publicly by use of his own words at the briefing.


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    #3594
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Is there any truth in what Trump is saying about the vaccine?
    A few weeks after November?

    Good news, or is he lying again?


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    #3595
    dinorebel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Is there any truth in what Trump is saying about the vaccine?
    A few weeks after November?

    Good news, or is he lying again?
    He's lying


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    #3596
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,129 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Trump contradicted Dr. Redfield CDC on two things tonight. Redfield said vaccine won't be widely available until mid 2021 and he said a mask was as effective as a vaccine. Trump's head is exploding.


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    #3597
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,544 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    However in the trump administration/campaign allowed the president to do that town hall late night should resign because that was an utter disaster. I mean joe Biden has been given the roadmap and if there’s a good moderator then last night showed that when trump can’t go rambling on and there is pushback it’s a mess.

    I can see Trump trying to rile Biden into losing his temper early in the debate by referencing his stutter as the only way to win the debate points. Trump knows the moves he made around and behind Hillary during their debate would probably cause Biden to burst out laughing.


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    #3598
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Is there any truth in what Trump is saying about the vaccine?
    A few weeks after November?

    Good news, or is he lying again?

    There are vaccines available right now! From a number of sources!

    However, they must now undergo rigorous scientific testing to ensure that they are SAFE to use. The process that assesses their safety takes many months within a timeline that has been developed from decades of experience of vaccine development. It is simply too early to release a vaccine probably before Xmas at the earliest. Even then, it is estimated that it will be 2022 before a complete safe and effective vaccination program can be rolled out. So Trump touting November is simply a lie!


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    #3599
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    There are vaccines available right now! From a number of sources!

    However, they must now undergo rigorous scientific testing to ensure that they are SAFE to use. The process that assesses their safety takes many months within a timeline that has been developed from decades of experience of vaccine development. It is simply too early to release a vaccine probably before Xmas at the earliest. Even then, it is estimated that it will be 2022 before a complete safe and effective vaccination program can be rolled out. So Trump touting November is simply a lie!

    Ah I see the quotes from Refield now that they mentioned at the briefing tonight.

    Redfield saying first responders may have it in Nov/Dec.

    Maybe some truth in what Trump was saying?


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    #3600
    dinorebel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭dinorebel


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Ah I see the quotes from Refield now that they mentioned at the briefing tonight.

    Redfield saying first responders may have it in Nov/Dec.

    Maybe some truth in what Trump was saying?
    If you believe that you should also play the lottery


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    #3601
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,544 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Ah I see the quotes from Refield now that they mentioned at the briefing tonight.

    Redfield saying first responders may have it in Nov/Dec.

    Maybe some truth in what Trump was saying?

    Redfield and the CDC may be taking the winter flu into consideration as well, ensuring the medics are fit for the two illnesses coming down the tracks while trying out the vaccine itself in the field conditions best suited to see if it's fit for purpose with all the needed facilities at hand if the vaccine is worthless as a cure or delaying agent against the virus.

    If the medics can't get assured vaccinated protection from the virus with the vaccine [given the numbers they've lost in the hospitals to it] then the patients may have zero protection or chance against the virus in hospitals. If the vaccine works, then Trump gets a boost but it may well be after the casting of the ballot papers by the voters.


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