Project bike

Blanchy90

Thought I'd put up a thread to track the progress of my project and hopefully get some suggestions for parts.



It's not much to look at now but I'm hoping to have it back on the road in a few weeks.

The frame is a Dawes, I believe it's from the 80s. I bought it from a charity shop around 10 years ago and used it through college.

The frame and wheels are about all I'll keep, everything else will be replaced.

I'm hoping to keep this cheap enough so most parts will be second hand or from Amazon.

tigerboon

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Thought I'd put up a thread to track the progress of my project and hopefully get some suggestions for parts.



It's not much to look at now but I'm hoping to have it back on the road in a few weeks.

The frame is a Dawes, I believe it's from the 80s. I bought it from a charity shop around 10 years ago and used it through college.

The frame and wheels are about all I'll keep, everything else will be replaced.

I'm hoping to keep this cheap enough so most parts will be second hand or from Amazon.

Rose bikes are good value for wheels etc.

8valve

Love it. Another steel classic saved! Chapeau!

Boxes of spare parts here; let me know if you are stuck for anything.

Blanchy90

8valve wrote: »

Love it. Another steel classic saved! Chapeau!

Boxes of spare parts here; let me know if you are stuck for anything.

Thanks for that! I'm sure I'll be stuck for something haha

I need to figure out what parts I need to get, I want the bike to feel new (ish) I definitely need new handlebars and I'd like integrated brake and shift leavers

Macy0161

Hoping to make a start on my own soon - did you hand sand it down or what did you use?

Blanchy90

Macy0161 wrote: »

Hoping to make a start on my own soon - did you hand sand it down or what did you use?

I stripped most of it using a wire brush attachment for a drill and I hand sanded some other areas. One tip if your hand sanding put some duct tape on the back of the sand paper, it'll stop it tearing.

I had initially planned to clear coat over the bare steel frame but after another thread on here I discovered that wont keep the rust out... had I realised that I would have just scuffed the paint and put the new colour over it. I'm tempted not to bother going down to bare metal in the hard to reach places that are left.

magicbastarder

you can also get fabric backed sandpaper which is much more robust. i buy it in 3m rolls.

Blanchy90

Any advice for getting this bottom bracket off?

Brute force and ignorance isn't working for me

07Lapierre

What tool are you using to remove it?

Blanchy90

07Lapierre wrote: »

What tool are you using to remove it?

A bench vice :pac:

07Lapierre

You need this,( or something equivalent)

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/park-tool-crank-bottom-bracket-wrench-hcw-4/rp-prod17504

cletus

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Any advice for getting this bottom bracket off?

Brute force and ignorance isn't working for me

Will neither side move? Is the drive side left hand threaded?

If it won't move with the right tool (or a bench vice) you may need to apply heat

hesker

You’ll need something like the CRC tool or a spanner that won’t slip.

Then get a long pipe or length of box iron and slip it over the end of the spanner. I have a 20 ft length. You’ll be surprised how easily it will move with a long enough lever.

If you can, soak it in penetrating oil (not WD40) overnight beforehand.

Blanchy90

Thanks I'll look into getting the right tool.

I soaked it in wd40 last night, I'll try get some proper penetrating oil.

The bottom bracket is pretty stiff so I think it'll need to be replaced anyway. Are these a standard enough size or will I have difficulty replacing it?

07Lapierre

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Thanks I'll look into getting the right tool.

I soaked it in wd40 last night, I'll try get some proper penetrating oil.

The bottom bracket is pretty stiff so I think it'll need to be replaced anyway. Are these a standard enough size or will I have difficulty replacing it?

If your handy with a drill and a hacksaw, and have a bit of steel bar lying around, you could make/bodge something similar to the tool i linked to earlier. (save a few quid)

cletus

A good adjustable spanner should be able to grip too, but if you're clamping the flats in a bench vice, and you can't rotate the frame around the BB, then I think you need heat.

Blanchy90

I've no steel bar, I'll see can I get one cheap on amazon or even borrow one.

There's a small crack under the bottom bracket so I don't really want to heat it. I'll probably use something like jb weld to "fix" it

cletus

How were you using the bench vice to loosen it?

Blanchy90

cletus wrote: »

How were you using the bench vice to loosen it?

I held the frame on its side and tightened the flat spots into the vice

magicbastarder

any progress on this?

Blanchy90

magicbastarder wrote: »

any progress on this?

Nothing yet, I ended up ordering a bike on the cycle to work scheme so I'll continue this project but try to reuse as many of the original parts as possible rather than spend money upgrading.

I'm not sure what to do about the crack in the frame under the bottom bracket, I think its been there for years but I cant be sure

magicbastarder

just picked this up. paid 50 quid for it; a falcon, almost certainly a westminster. 531 frame; handlebars would have originally been drop bars, so a bit of a shame to not have the original brake levers and bars. drivetrain has been replaced too, but it'll keep me busy over the winter. frame needs to be stripped and repainted.

Eamonnator

^^^^^^^.

When I was going to school, There was a lad had a bike quite similar to that.
We used to call the bike Ardnacrusha, because there were so many wires and cables on it.

cletus

Blanchy90 wrote: »

Nothing yet, I ended up ordering a bike on the cycle to work scheme so I'll continue this project but try to reuse as many of the original parts as possible rather than spend money upgrading.

I'm not sure what to do about the crack in the frame under the bottom bracket, I think its been there for years but I cant be sure

Do you know anyone that's handy at Tig welding

hesker

Blanchy90 wrote: »

I'm not sure what to do about the crack in the frame under the bottom bracket, I think its been there for years but I cant be sure

Post a photo of it.

Many old steel frames had slots in them so the bb shell doesn’t need to be leak tight.

You can stop cracks from getting worse by drilling holes at each end.

magicbastarder

anyone who's stripped a bike - what sort of grit sandpaper did you start at, and what did you finish at? i need to order some anyway for other purposes so will buy extra for the bike.

cletus

magicbastarder wrote: »

anyone who's stripped a bike - what sort of grit sandpaper did you start at, and what did you finish at? i need to order some anyway for other purposes so will buy extra for the bike.

If you can't get it sandblasted (by far the easiest option), then start with 60/80 grit, up to 220 grit, and depending on the finish you want and the condition of the frame, you could go as far as 320

Paint stripper for the small detail areas

magicbastarder

yeah, there's a panelbeater i've thrown some business at before, who'd have the gear for both the sandblasting and spraying, so may see what he quotes.

Curious to know if the lights work on it still mb?

You could probable sell the rack on handy enough for a few quid if you had no use for it too.

magicbastarder

looks like there was a dynamo on the back wheel but the cables running back to it end at the seat tube. it's got a good chunky bell on it though.
the rack is a lidl or aldi job by the looks of it.
not pictured were the old pannier bags on it - made of leather, a satchel type design. my wife is going to try to restore the leather on them. they can be seen on the original ad:

https://www.adverts.ie/road-bikes/antique-mens-bike/21376370

Peter T

Very nice. Picked up winter project myself. Raleigh, think its a superb from the 50's or 60's. Haven't dived into it fully yet. Tyres and tubes still hold air after 30 years of non use. Not sure how far I'll go with it, a good service anyway and enjoy it a bit as is. Maybe move it on for someone to do a full resto once I've had my fun.

8valve

Great to see more and more people getting into the restoration of these fine machines!

Chapeau!

magicbastarder

i still have two here for you, 8valve!

i forgot to check that the stem wasn't seized in the one i bought yesterday, have to go out and check that soon.

8valve

magicbastarder wrote: »

i still have two here for you, 8valve!

i forgot to check that the stem wasn't seized in the one i bought yesterday, have to go out and check that soon.

Thanks a million!


Hoping to get up soon.

Type 17

Peter T wrote: »

... think its a superb from the 50's or 60's...

Look on the shell of the Sturmey-Archer gear hub and/or the Dynohub on the front - the month/year of manufacture (eg: "12 60" for December 1960) are stamped into them. The bike would have been assembled/sold usually sometime in the year afterwards.

magicbastarder

dismantling the falcon has been easier than i expected; it seems it's lasted because someone was doing some general ongoing low level maintenance. despite the copiously rusty chainstays.
i took a powerhose to it tonight, and the crud was so thick on the rear axle the powerhose was havng trouble shifting it. i was picking it off the jockey wheels with a wooden meat skewer, which revealed why the drivetrain was so stiff - there was literally a ring 4 or 5mm thick of crud either side of each jockey wheel.
but the pedals came off without too much of a fight, which surprised me; the stem wasn't seized, the seatpost is stubborn but not seized.

just need to work the seatpost out fully now and remove the chainwheel (my socket set only goes up to 13mm and i suspect the recessed nuts are 15mm) and the frame will be free for sanding/stripping, whatever approach i decide to take.

cletus

magicbastarder wrote: »

dismantling the falcon has been easier than i expected; it seems it's lasted because someone was doing some general ongoing low level maintenance. despite the copiously rusty chainstays.
i took a powerhose to it tonight, and the crud was so thick on the rear axle the powerhose was havng trouble shifting it. i was picking it off the jockey wheels with a wooden meat skewer, which revealed why the drivetrain was so stiff - there was literally a ring 4 or 5mm thick of crud either side of each jockey wheel.
but the pedals came off without too much of a fight, which surprised me; the stem wasn't seized, the seatpost is stubborn but not seized.

just need to work the seatpost out fully now and remove the chainwheel (my socket set only goes up to 13mm and i suspect the recessed nuts are 15mm) and the frame will be free for sanding/stripping, whatever approach i decide to take.

Let me know if your stuck for sockets etc

magicbastarder

cletus wrote: »

If you can't get it sandblasted (by far the easiest option), then start with 60/80 grit, up to 220 grit, and depending on the finish you want and the condition of the frame, you could go as far as 320

Paint stripper for the small detail areas

i found a wire brush attachment head i've tried with my battery drill, seems to do a fine job.

there's pitting in the steel around the chainstays, but they certainly seem solid enough.

8valve

magicbastarder wrote: »

dismantling the falcon has been easier than i expected; it seems it's lasted because someone was doing some general ongoing low level maintenance. despite the copiously rusty chainstays.
i took a powerhose to it tonight, and the crud was so thick on the rear axle the powerhose was havng trouble shifting it. i was picking it off the jockey wheels with a wooden meat skewer, which revealed why the drivetrain was so stiff - there was literally a ring 4 or 5mm thick of crud either side of each jockey wheel.
but the pedals came off without too much of a fight, which surprised me; the stem wasn't seized, the seatpost is stubborn but not seized.

just need to work the seatpost out fully now and remove the chainwheel (my socket set only goes up to 13mm and i suspect the recessed nuts are 15mm) and the frame will be free for sanding/stripping, whatever approach i decide to take.

From memory, most crank nuts/bolts are 14mm.


Finding that the pedals, seatpost and stem are not seized can be joyous.


We need progress pics!

magicbastarder

yep, confirmed this evening that they're 14mm. still no good to me though, and my neighbour with the endless bag of tools is in wexford for the weekend.
one thing i noticed this evening is that the centreline of the fork (down through the steerer tube) does not match the centreline of the tines, i suspect the middle point is 5mm or more to the side. no sign of any crash damage or bending, i suspect it was that whoever made them was not paying attention.
also, the dropouts on the fork are marked tange, but the frame is 531. might that mean the fork itself is tange, or possibly just the dropouts?

cletus

I second the progress pics suggestion. (I would, though)

magicbastarder

will do tomorrow. also learned this evening - which i'd pretty much already known. modern paint stripper is bleeding useless. gimme the good stuff you could get 20 years ago where the smell would hurt your nose.

iwillhtfu

magicbastarder wrote: »

i found a wire brush attachment head i've tried with my battery drill, seems to do a fine job.

there's pitting in the steel around the chainstays, but they certainly seem solid enough.

Get yourself a 4" angle grinder and a knotted steel attachment it'll make short work of stripping the frame. Stripping with sand paper would be a winter project in itself.

The drill attachments are handy for getting into the small areas.

8valve

magicbastarder wrote: »

yep, confirmed this evening that they're 14mm. still no good to me though, and my neighbour with the endless bag of tools is in wexford for the weekend.
one thing i noticed this evening is that the centreline of the fork (down through the steerer tube) does not match the centreline of the tines, i suspect the middle point is 5mm or more to the side. no sign of any crash damage or bending, i suspect it was that whoever made them was not paying attention.
also, the dropouts on the fork are marked tange, but the frame is 531. might that mean the fork itself is tange, or possibly just the dropouts?

Tange indeed made dropouts for framebuilders; not sure if British framebuilders used them? Was the frame made in Taiwan/China under license, as many were (mostly by US manufacturers)?


Lots of bike shops back in the day stocked replacement forks made by Tange, the majority of which were chromed. Still a few knocking around...I put a set on a Bianchi for a guy during the week who was carrying a child on the crossbar and the child's foot got caught in the front spokes! No one injured but forks ended up getting bent backwards when they both fell off!


Might forks have been replaced at some point?

magicbastarder

the fork seems to be original, the colour is the same as the frame, but the bottom half of the tines are chrome.

8valve

magicbastarder wrote: »

the fork seems to be original, the colour is the same as the frame, but the bottom half of the tines are chrome.

If, at any point, you're dropping the forks out of the frame (e.g. to service headset bearings), check if the steerer tube on the fork has been stamped with the same serial number as the frame itself).


This was common practice with steel framebuilders and will 100% confirm that the forks are original from the factory/workshop where the frame was built.


Doing this helped me date a June 1956 Claud Butler that a friend pulled out of a shed, as some of his frame serial number stamping was damaged. It also confirmed both frame & forks were original as they had left the framebuilders workshop...a handy bonus was the steerer tube still had the original build paint colour...he wants it back to fully original.

magicbastarder

yep, i took them out to assist with stripping, will check later.
there's a nut welded to the fork seemingly to provide a mount point for a light, not something i've seen too often before.

hesker

531 decal with the number in a straight line indicate main tubes only are 531, ie the main triangle. Diagonal 531 means tubes, forks and stays

magicbastarder

ah, i did not know this. i had assumed the stays *weren't* 531. no stickers on the fork either, so had assumed the same for that.

iwillhtfu

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Get yourself a 4" angle grinder and a knotted steel attachment it'll make short work of stripping the frame. Stripping with sand paper would be a winter project in itself.

The drill attachments are handy for getting into the small areas.

Decided to spend an hour out of curiosity as I never really pay attention to the time when working on bikes but the frame is stripped for the most part, the small areas are usually what take the longest and are most tedious. A soft sanding pad now will remove the panzer look and make the finish a bit smoother for paint. If you've the spare cash I'd have someone media blast it though it's much handier.

magicbastarder

where i am currently with mine; was around the folks, got sorted for the socket wrench there and now need a crank puller.
may bring it around to the LBS; i want to pull the cranks, take out the BB and knock out the headset cups. they'd be able to do all that in five minutes where i'd be trying to bodge something together for a couple of hours.



the worst the rust had been here:



note the nut welded to the right tine. also i've not thought fasr enough ahead about what's involved with removing the chrome (or if it's necessary).