What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122061#Comment_118122061

The subordinates of both Hitler and Stalin were often worse than those two. Hitler and Stalin had many of the initial ideas, but their subordinates/followers expanded on them, and made them real. That's far more evil in my eyes.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118125797#Comment_118125797

Yes, but without the two catalysts, it might never have gotten to the stage it did get to. But yes, there was no shortage of pure evil to go round.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118125849#Comment_118125849

Dunno, A lot of the main players were part of Ernst Rohms powerbase, with the same desire for destruction of undesirables. Rohm and Himmler could have brought about a military coup, leading towards essentially the same changes that Hitler caused. I think people give Hitler too much credit, since he simply added fuel to a fire that was already burning in Germany... there were other political and military leaders with similar views as Hitler.. and through Rohm, a militia force larger than the German standing army.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118125787#Comment_118125787

Yes, its very much different in reality, compared to what we were led to believe. And what was to me a shocking discovery was that collectively its called Russia, but ethnic Russians are not very popular in the Republics....anything but, as a matter of fact.!!! The nearer to Moscow they are, the happier they will be. So it probably has not changed too much, even in the present day. And that does not even take into account clan rivalries within the Republics themselves plus inter republic rivalry. That Stalin was a Georgian is a matter of great pride to Georgians,,, and they would be much happier if he were still around. Having said all that, Russia ( and Georgia) are fascinating places.

Patrick2010

Interesting article in today’s Indo about the current miss Ireland who grew up in South Africa and had a nice life there, fee paying school, ballet lessons etc. Until unfortunately until Dads Internet cafe went bust.

Mum fortunately had a friend in Ireland so they headed there but didn’t realize it would involve going into direct provision for 10 years. No doubt it involved numerous appeals but all turned out well and they are settled here now.

Complete economic migrants but complete examples that you can come here, put up roots, drag out appeals and you can stay

vriesmays

Lots of white people moving from South Africa to Ireland too. Something to do with not getting killed.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126997#Comment_118126997

And the degree of discrimination due to Black people being elevated to a position where jobs and benefits are often only available to them, but not to White people... based entirely on skin colour.

goose2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126932#Comment_118126932

Yeah, it's got to the stage that people don't even pretend to have been refugees any more. Like there was a footballer on the Irish team, they described him as coming to Ireland in his mother's womb as if it was a heroic journey to freedom rather than another anchor baby

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126116#Comment_118126116

You mustn’t forget Industrials and Financiers. Hitler’s movement contained all the germs of a great coalescence of forces. He was adulated, and of course the powerful propaganda machine was going full blast from ‘33 onwards, but on an individual basis, German citizens of all economic backgrounds were on board.

There is also the sad fact that there were black and brown shirt imitators far and wide in the world at the eve of WWII. Plenty of on board folk to stoke the fires of hatred.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127745#Comment_118127745

And the root cause of that were the reparations imposed on Germany after www 1.

Kermit.de.frog

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/men-guilty-of-183000-pup-scam-could-have-links-with-notorious-black-axe-gang-41023571.html

My only question here is why are these criminals not already back where they originally came from?

As an Irish person I don't want these people jailed here, I just want them deported.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118127125#Comment_118127125

And any white starting a business has to have a black partner. I worked with some South Africans a few years ago, and even then, they could see the writing on the wall, and were making plans to leave. Zimbabwe 2 on the way, as they see it. But I'm also hearing tales about Zimbabwe inviting whites back, to live and work there again. Maybe exodus from SA?

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128069#Comment_118128069

Yes, certainly the breadth of punishment was the major impulse for the German bitterness toward its neighbo(u)rs, etc…

The problem is though, that Germany was pretty much unscathed as opposed to the countries where the action was concentrated. Of course, in human terms, the misery of the First War was meg industrial in scale, but WWII with the massive bombings from above, was on another order of magnitude. I am watching a lot of youtubes on WWII and it is hard to fathom how the Germans and Japanese got up the courage to rebuild. Well, they somehow won the war long term, economically speaking.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128546#Comment_118128546

When your Country is completely destroyed, you have no choice. Even now in Syria, the first steps in rebuilding are taking place, very minute, but still there never the less. After WW2, you had the Marshall Plan, which did not make the same mistake as was made after WW1,instead, it was focused on rebuilding the Country's physically, but putting in place different government systems. The US, UK, etc took on the responsibility for defense and security, leaving more resources for rebuilding etc, and loans were provided to finance the rebuilding. But perhaps the greatest assets in rebuilding was the people themselves. Both German and Japanese people have power full work ethics. They are very efficient planners with great coordination. They have a natural "for the common good" mentality. Look at how quick they reunited the Country when the Berlin wall came down. Not to mention the economic powerhouses they became after the war. Now compare this with what happened in Afghanistan, where after 20 years and trillions being spent on it, ( a lot more than was spent on Germany and Japan after WW 2) And precious left to show for it. Same thing is happening in Iraq.

Kaybaykwah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118128955#Comment_118128955

Eggzactly.

Tribe mentality that dooms Afghanistan to the wearing of sandals and the cultivation of opium. Oh well…

JupiterKid

Anyone who thinks that the EU and EU membership over the past 50 years has been bad for Ireland is simply ignoring the facts. EU membership has utterly transformed Ireland in both social and economic terms for the better - no question.

Ireland prior to EU membership was deeply backward, impoverished, culturally a wasteland, rife with emigration as we couldn't support the insanely high fertility and birth rates in the past. A Catholic church in almost total control free to carry out the widespread abuses it did. Rampant corruption, cute hoorism and the culture of "getting away with it." Women treated as third class citizens.

Yes the EU has many issues and problems - but I think the tide towards embracing mass migration at any cost to Europe is slowly turning towards a more pragmatic, questioning, discerning and selective mindset which is a good thing.

An awful lot of racists, xenophobes and bigots evident on this thread- masquerading their own prejudices as supposed "valid concerns."

That said, I firmly hold on to my belief that “multiculturalism” is a failed philosophy and policy where the West has been appeasing cultures that are deeply backward and inferior to our own. Integration of migrants is clearly the way forward where they learn to respect and abide by the rules and social norms of their host societies.

Multiculturalism just breeds division, festering resentment, mutual distrust, growing tensions and all the negative consequences that flow from such a toxic brew.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118129967#Comment_118129967

Not quite, the Afghans themselves were slowly starting to modernize, the US had rebuilt a lot of the Country's roads, bridge's, overhauled the Hospitals and schools. Maternity deaths were vastly reduced, to the extent that the population practically doubled in the twenty years of "occupation", the reading / writing increased to 37%, so these were all positive things. When people look back on this, after the dust has settled, they will realised that these were the best "Invaders" ever to have come to Afghanistan, as far as the ordinary Afghans were concerned. But certain neighboring Country's did not want a strong independent Afghanistan,( especially Pakistan) and fought it every step of the way. They played on ethnic tribal divisions, supported the Taliban, murdered thousands and over 20 years gradually wore away the US resolve to stay any longer in an unwinnable situation. The US had done everything they possibly could to save Afghanistan. But Afghanistan is light years different than Germany and Japan, in every sense of the word.

Luxembourgo

Any reason we are actively recruiting refugees now?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/1107/1258331-syrian-refugees-ireland/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131483#Comment_118131483

Bottom of the article. Ireland is committed to taking in a certain number of refugees, and so they go to the source to get them.

It makes little sense to me, but it's hardly anything new.

ululator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131519#Comment_118131519

I think it's increasingly important to differentiate between "Ireland" and "a handful of people in Ireland".

A handful of people in Ireland are committed to taking in extra people during a housing crisis, economic uncertainty and significant sectoral unemployment.

Ireland, on the other hand, representing the general population, does not want extra people in a housing crisis, economic uncertainty and significant sectoral unemployment.

There is a gaping gulf of reality between those who pretend to represent Ireland, and Ireland itself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131519#Comment_118131519

Because members of AGS and the department of foreign affairs go to refugee camps to interview, fingerprint, photograph and background check all applicants. They then decide who they will or will not take.

I would have thought this was perfectly reasonable, considering we are taking these people into our country.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131614#Comment_118131614

I too think it’s important to differentiate between the handful of people in Ireland who have a mandate from the Irish people and represent Irish society, and the handful of people in Ireland who are committed to claiming that they represent the will of the general population when they have been given no such mandate from the Irish people, and their opinions appear to consist of their own beliefs about what Irish people do or don’t want.

There sure as hell is indeed a gaping gulf of reality between those people who claim to know the minds of everyone else in Irish society as though their thoughts are one hive mind, and the handful of people who are actually elected to represent and govern Irish society with a mandate from the Irish electorate to do so.

The difference between them is that the handful of people who are elected by the electorate in democratic elections, do not have the same luxury of ignoring the States human rights obligations as the people who imagine they have their finger on the pulse of Irish society.

Luxembourgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131655#Comment_118131655

So why is Roderik O Gorman going?

TXPTGR1

Problems for Ireland/Europe are going to accelerate when US decide that protecting Europe militarily isn’t worth it any more/are forces to withdraw because of their own problems . Will really be a wake up moment for a lot of people- a lot of luxury beliefs will have to be dropped for harsh brutal reality.

there will be war in Western Europe in our lifetime

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131806#Comment_118131806

I would imagine In his capacity as minister for integration, children etc

Would make sense that he goes, meets refugees, sees the work that AGS and dept of foreign affairs are doing there. It's part of his job. Good to see a minister taking his portfolio seriously.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131853#Comment_118131853

The US was only interested in countering Russian expansion under the fear of communism. Modern Russia has no interest in invading/occupying Europe, and taking on all the problems that would entail. The various European military, while not to the scale of the US, are more than capable of holding a Russian invasion, but more importantly, there is the population of trained personnel in a variety of nations to establish guerrilla operations, and acts of resistance, even if the conventional war was defeated. All of which would culminate in a headache that Russia wouldn't want to deal with, never mind, the extended problems of dealing with the fallout from countries outside of Europe.

There is no basis for any idea of war in Western Europe. A degree of fragmentation is possible as past states/nationalities seek to reassert themselves, but that's not going to lead to any kind of warfare. People look at history, and ignore/dismiss all the changes in attitudes towards ideologies that have occurred.

Where is this conflict going to come from? Europe hasn't needed US involvement in it's defense since the Cold war, and even that's debatable, considering just how weak the Soviet economy was, and how most of their military was reliant on ww2 tech, or conscripts with low morale.

TXPTGR1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118132197#Comment_118132197

Lol where is the conflict going to come from in a continent full of centuries old resentments currently being checked by an unusually long period of relative peace comfort and prosperity. Also there’s still 38000 us troops in Germany alone

there’s already plenty tension building up in the east (Bosnia - again, Poland and Belarus) , throw in an (inevitable) economic crash and it won’t be long before some of the big players will be at each other’s throats- 10-20 years down the line

Polish government have said 23,000 migrants have tried to enter via Belarus this year already. Belarus government is continuing to fly migrants in from the middle east and transport them then to the EU's borders and push them into the EU.

Polish government desperately trying to build a wall and protect against what is state sponsored human trafficking.

Ursula von der Leyen is out to lunch somewhere insisting no financial help for border walls, she seems very relaxed with the current situation....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118137025#Comment_118137025

Well, first off, you specified Western Europe in your previous post, so referring to those in Eastern Europe or the Balkans doesn't really match up well as a response.

As for centuries old resentments, those are simply moans and groans over a few drinks, and rarely constitute anything serious, due to the consequences. ie. the range of entitlements that they're currently receiving but would lose. I spent a lot of time in France where I knew families who would talk about bringing back Burgundy, or Saxony, but ultimately when cornered, they admitted the stupidity of such desires in the face of the realities of modern economies, and politics. The greatest chance of any kind of breakup would come from Italy and Spain due to systemic discrimination, corruption and poor economies, leading people to keep allegiances to past states, but it's not going to erupt into any kind of actual warfare.

Dunno what the reference to US troops in Germany has got to do with anything. It has been in the interests of the US to keep western Europe weak in terms of military because it removed another contender for superpower status, hence their overbearing presence in NATO, and changeable attitudes towards European responsibilities.

Now.. the Balkans has always been unstable and is not part of Europe. Eastern Europe has a range of problems, not least the interest of Russia to reunify Soviet held territories, but Poland is not going to be any kind of crisis point, due to them having a decent military, backed up by NATO. Belarus will likely be handed away to Russia to avoid problems, and besides, few European nations trust that nation anyway. Eastern Europe, with the exception of Poland and the Baltic states, is expendable... and it's highly doubtful that Russia would seek war over them, due to their own failures at dealing with former soviet states already.. thereby showing the problems with waging war and maintaining control in the modern sense. Which would be multiplied endlessly by having to fight NATO, even if the US decided to remain neutral.

Besides which, Russia has committed itself to expansion, and neutralising their neighbors on their southern borders, and any serious effort to deal with Eastern Europe would require a huge re-tasking of forces, thereby opening themselves up to attacks from central Asia and the M.East.. who in normal times wouldn't be much of a threat, but with Russia fighting NATO, they'd be able to take sizable portions of territory. Russia is stretched too thin, and doesn't have the population to be a major threat to Europe. Oh, they'll seek to bully Europe with the risk of war, but Russians aren't stupid. They could lose most of what they have if they allowed themselves to enter a war with western Europe, and be forced to make terms at a war crimes tribunal.

Further to what's currently going on at the Polish border, Amnesty International are now condemning Poland but not Belarus, why is that???

NATO aren't pulling any punches though:

NATO have now said "the use of migrants by the regime of Lukashenko as a hybrid tactic is unacceptable."