What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

323

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Coveney seems particularly keen on increasing our population from increased immigration, legal or otherwise. Anyone know why this is?
If we hadn’t such a liberal immigration policy would our housing and health service be so strained now?

You mean apart from being the protegee of Peter Sutherland, (credited with being "The Father of Globalization"). One of the greatest advocates for this mass inward migration to the EU. "EU states should relax restrictions on low-skilled migrants; Migration is crucial for economic growth, regardless of what indigenous Europeans think"

Strumms

Look, most right minded people are PRO immigration.

As long as it’s done in a fair, transparent and reasonable manner. NOT an open all borders, come on in and here is a gaff and a shît load of money for evermore manner.

It is fair and appropriate that we can expect and have expectations of those who arrive here seeking assistance. It’s fair and appropriate too if they don’t live up to those expectations that it can be and should be ‘ Slán Abhaile’

Too....We simply need to become of the ability at times to say ‘no, we cannot facilitate more people arriving at present’.

If the country is in the shît because of a financial / health or whatever crisis... we simply need to focus ALL our efforts and resources helping those who are entitled to that help, Irish people who pay their taxes for partly THAT eventually.

breezy1985

Strumms wrote: »

They were certainly less affluent times. They were fairer times though.

You knew that whatever tax was being paid, on income, purchases whatever... were going back into a big pot that was helping the entire community of Irish people mainly.. who had contributed to the pot in the first place through taxes..

Fairer ? Not if you were a woman or gay or even worse grew up in the care of priests

The community was mainly Irish because the country was crap back then and no one would be stupid enough to come here and Shure even our own young were leaving in the 1000s to go be immigrants somewhere where people stigmatized them like you are doing now to the immigrants here

breezy1985

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I do not care what colour, sex creed or whatever they are, its the impact of so many people coming here crippling the economy

the lefties are trying to make this a colour issue which it is NOT

Nope Irish people voting for crooked FF who created a property and credit bubble crippled the economy. Immigrants had nothing to do with it all us I'm afraid

Strumms

breezy1985 wrote: »

Fairer ? Not if you were a woman or gay or even worse grew up in the care of priests

The community was mainly Irish because the country was crap back then and no one would be stupid enough to come here and Shure even our own young were leaving in the 1000s to go be immigrants somewhere where people stigmatized them like you are doing now to the immigrants here

Can you show me a quote where I’m stigmatizing anyone ?

We are simply debating and discussing a topic, sharing various viewpoints and our reasoning for them.

The country was crap back then ? Is that a technical viewpoint backed by facts or just your opinion ? Will spunking millions of euros annually to facilitate people to come here and thus having a lot less cash to help Irish tax payers who work to generate those millions make it a non crap country ? Well ?

kildare lad

Strumms wrote: »

What’s wrong with people being angry though ? Nothing ! People tend to get angry, as they indeed should at situations of unfairness. Several years ago immigration...it was running at .... 1 5 0 Million per year cost to the Irish tax payer. That was 2014... since then on average the taxpayers here have facilitated thousands of non nationals to relocate here and about 900 million... 900,000,000 euros of taxpayers money has been spent to facilitate and help. About what 1.4 billion over a decade ? Just imagine the good that money could do here for the people who created it !

Imagine the ways in which 150 million could have benefited people here, every year...

Expand the NRH so that more beds, doctors are available so that the Irish taxpayers can avail of treatment, help and expertise and recover instead of the critical bed and staff shortages.... more metro underground, more lines, stops, less pollution even more traffic off the roads.

Or

Invite a load of people over from outside the country and continent, who haven’t by and large a pot to piss in , invest the money helping them....yeah, sound fair ?

Don't forget 1.3 billion spent on direct provision in the last 20 years .


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/in-20-years-direct-provision-has-cost-ireland-1-3bn-is-there-a-better-alternative-1.4089971

breezy1985

Strumms wrote: »

Can you show me a quote where I’m stigmatizing anyone ?

We are simply debating and discussing a topic, sharing various viewpoints and our reasoning for them.

The country was crap back then ? Is that a technical viewpoint backed by facts or just your opinion ? Will spunking millions of euros annually to facilitate people to come here and thus having a lot less cash to help Irish tax payers who work to generate those millions make it a non crap country ? Well ?

Over and over you keep talking about Irish tax and immigrant waste of tax and are pushing an agenda that only the Irish pay tax and all immigrants are a burden on the tax system and leave out the little truth that immigration is a net contributor to the tax system.

There was mass unemployment in the 80s and net 200,000 left the country for work. On top of that we were still locking up unmarried mothers and stealing their children. There was a widespread practice of molestation in orphanages and boarding schools which were little better than prisons.

And this last bit is just my opinion. It was a drab grey backward looking place that was afraid of anything outside the norm.

The Irish have a serious cheek to be complaining about immigrants given this country would have collapsed if the world didn't take our young in time and time again

Justin Credible Darts

breezy1985 wrote: »

Over and over you keep talking about Irish tax and immigrant waste of tax and are pushing an agenda that only the Irish pay tax and all immigrants are a burden on the tax system and leave out the little truth that immigration is a net contributor to the tax system.

There was mass unemployment in the 80s and net 200,000 left the country for work. On top of that we were still locking up unmarried mothers and stealing their children. There was a widespread practice of molestation in orphanages and boarding schools which were little better than prisons.

And this last bit is just my opinion. It was a drab grey backward looking place that was afraid of anything outside the norm.

The Irish have a serious cheek to be complaining about immigrants given this country would have collapsed if the world didn't take our young in time and time again

no one is complaining about immigrant coming here, it is the sheer number, and also the illegal ones.


we always have people from all over the world, go to a hospital, restuarant etc and there was always foreigners, no one cared.


the sheer number crippling the economy is the issue

Strumms

breezy1985 wrote: »

Over and over you keep talking about Irish tax and immigrant waste of tax and are pushing an agenda that only the Irish pay tax and all immigrants are a burden on the tax system and leave out the little truth that immigration is a net contributor to the tax system.

There was mass unemployment in the 80s and net 200,000 left the country for work. On top of that we were still locking up unmarried mothers and stealing their children. There was a widespread practice of molestation in orphanages and boarding schools which were little better than prisons.

And this last bit is just my opinion. It was a drab grey backward looking place that was afraid of anything outside the norm.

The Irish have a serious cheek to be complaining about immigrants given this country would have collapsed if the world didn't take our young in time and time again

I’ve never once referenced ‘wasted tax’ so if you are going to accuse me of something, at least have the good manners to back up your accusations with actual verifiable quotes.

Irish people travelled yes, and by and large there obviously would have been the odd exceptions but by and large we worked , contributed, integrated.

My cousin made himself a fortune is the US, worked his bôllocks off, retired a millionaire from his job in the legal profession last year... he created jobs. Was a success.

Everyone of my family in the US did well, worked hard, contributed and afterwards reaped the rewards of hard earned cash.

breezy1985

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

no one is complaining about immigrant coming here, it is the sheer number, and also the illegal ones.


we always have people from all over the world, go to a hospital, restuarant etc and there was always foreigners, no one cared.


the sheer number crippling the economy is the issue

There is no sheer number and immigration is not crippling the economy

breezy1985

Strumms wrote: »

I’ve never once referenced ‘wasted tax’ so if you are going to accuse me of something, at least have the good manners to back up your accusations with actual verifiable quotes.

Irish people travelled yes, and by and large there obviously would have been the odd exceptions but by and large we worked , contributed, integrated.

My cousin made himself a fortune is the US, worked his bôllocks off, retired a millionaire from his job in the legal profession last year... he created jobs. Was a success.

Everyone of my family in the US did well, worked hard, contributed and afterwards reaped the rewards of hard earned cash.

Yep you did you repeatedly mentioned how much we spend on immigrants unless I'm wrong and you think this a good thing.

And are you willing to admit that like the Irish the vast majority of immigrants in Ireland are hard working and contribute to society?

Strumms

breezy1985 wrote: »

There is no sheer number and immigration is not crippling the economy

It simply is crippling it as the rate as to which people have been arriving is taking up millions needed in health, housing and other services. I’m involved in a project that 18 months ago applied for funding that would be invested into a project that would or certainly could save the state long term over a decade, approximately 2.3 - 3.0 million ( conservative estimate )... health related work... a meeting was had with people and the minister himself... the upshot after due consideration was that the project qualified for support, but the money wasn’t available to give.

So now the 250 Irish citizens presently that we wanted to bring to 4000 who could be in receipt of this help will remain at just 250.....Ireland can’t enable Ireland to help itself because Ireland is too busy helping everyone else.

Zookey123

Strumms wrote: »

They were certainly less affluent times. They were fairer times though.

You knew that whatever tax was being paid, on income, purchases whatever... were going back into a big pot that was helping the entire community of Irish people mainly.. who had contributed to the pot in the first place through taxes..

Fairer for whom exactly?

Strumms

Zookey123 wrote: »

Fairer for whom exactly?

Everybody

breezy1985

Strumms wrote: »

It simply is crippling it as the rate as to which people have been arriving is taking up millions needed in health, housing and other services. I’m involved in a project that 18 months ago applied for funding that would be invested into a project that would or certainly could save the state long term over a decade, approximately 2.3 - 3.0 million ( conservative estimate )... health related work... a meeting was had with people and the minister himself... the upshot after due consideration was that the project qualified for support, but the money wasn’t available to give.

So now the 250 Irish citizens presently that we wanted to bring to 4000 who could be in receipt of this help will remain at just 250.....Ireland can’t enable Ireland to help itself because Ireland is too busy helping everyone else.

One doesn't equal the other. Your projects funding was not tied to direct provision funding and the giving or not giving of funding to you has nothing to do with direct provision

I work in mental health and come from a very poor council estate and I can tell you that the state in my experience is paying an absolute fortune on Irish people

breezy1985

Strumms wrote: »

Everybody

Very few

Strumms

breezy1985 wrote: »

Yep you did you repeatedly mentioned how much we spend on immigrants unless I'm wrong and you think this a good thing.

And are you willing to admit that like the Irish the vast majority of immigrants in Ireland are hard working and contribute to society?

The vast majority of people here are hard working, regardless of background. I’ve encountered people with the lazy gene from everywhere I’ve learned that it doesn’t discriminate.

Because you are a hard, good worker isn’t enough to enable the door to be always open though. Simply in tough times like NOW it just shouldn’t be.

We do spend a hell of a lot of money providing assistance to immigrants. But in any manner of life you have to cut your cloth to suit your measure. Now ISNT the time to be spunking more cash to facilitate immigration.

jmayo

breezy1985 wrote: »

Over and over you keep talking about Irish tax and immigrant waste of tax and are pushing an agenda that only the Irish pay tax and all immigrants are a burden on the tax system and leave out the little truth that immigration is a net contributor to the tax system.

Falsehood No.1
Ah stop trying to conflate real legal immigrants and the chancers that show up claiming asylum.
The thousands that have shown up illegally, having not claimed asylum in the first safe country they have visited, but rather the light soft touch Irish state where No really means the legal professional trough suckers, professional whiner NGOs, the social media thanks hoors, and the Quislings will fight for them to remain, even after they have served prison for rape.

No one, bar the real racists, are complaining about Pavel the plumber from Poland, Raj the programmer from India, Reyna the nurse from the Philippines, Bill the manager from US or Solomon the engineer from Zimbabwe.
They are here working legally, they applied for visas and they are contributing to our tax revenue.

They didn't arrive with two arms as long as each other outstretched looking for the state to accommodate and feed them.

breezy1985 wrote: »

There was mass unemployment in the 80s and net 200,000 left the country for work. On top of that we were still locking up unmarried mothers and stealing their children. There was a widespread practice of molestation in orphanages and boarding schools which were little better than prisons.

From my memory we had stopped locking up unmarried mothers by the 80s but there were still huge problems as evidenced by both Granard and Kerry.

breezy1985 wrote: »

And this last bit is just my opinion. It was a drab grey backward looking place that was afraid of anything outside the norm.

The Irish have a serious cheek to be complaining about immigrants given this country would have collapsed if the world didn't take our young in time and time again

Falsehood No.2

Ah bullshyte.

Bar later decades in Britain with dole, Irish emigrants got fook all from any country that they didn't work damn hard for.
Yes we emigrated, a lot of my family did, but they worked hard for anything they had.
They would have got short shrift if they demanded the natives look after them.

Zookey123

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm interested in a debate, but with very few exceptions the pro multicultural camp debate little and run straight to attack and insult screaming right wingers and racists! Every time. Like clockwork. They appear to have nothing to discuss.

Yeah as if the right don't do the exact same thing. It's an anonymous online forum what do you expect? I have seen very few posters actually show interest in a discussion which is not necessarily a debate (I have no interest in scoring points).

Wibbs wrote: »

Actually those analyses are taken from societies that are already multicultural and much of it is down to having a wider spread of diversity to help sell stuff to the existing diverse. Again the accepted truth of positivity is drawn from already diverse societies who have no choice in the matter and have had to paper over the cracks in their "melting pots".

Any evidence of this wild claim? I am a pessimist in the best of times but this statement takes the cake. Sounds like goal posts being shifted to suit a narrative.

Wibbs wrote: »

The US an example, as are the other post colonial societies. Even though the negatives, not least if not mostly for the non majority White folks are many. And again please point me to any multicultural majority White ostensibly Christian, culturally European nation where the darker the skin the more likely you are to be bottom of that society, ghettoised, in receipt of social welfare(where it applies) and more likely to be a perpetrator and more a victim of criminality(and in the case of the US, the authorities). The plain fact is that these "diverse melting pots" are still run by and have Whites at the top and middle with a smattering of East Asians.

You sure you don't want to add any more parameters? I don't think you're being specific enough. What exactly is you're point? That majority white nations are run by whites and will tend to have coloured folk in the lower tiers of society?

Zookey123

Strumms wrote: »

Everybody

You seriously think the 90's was a fairer time for everybody? Come on now take that head out of the sand.

Tell me how

Zookey123 wrote: »

Any evidence of this wild claim? I am a pessimist in the best of times but this statement takes the cake. Sounds like goal posts being shifted to suit a narrative.

Just take it as a sign of progress that the narrative has shifted to acknowledging that there are perfectly functioning multicultural societies.

Justin Credible Darts

breezy1985 wrote: »

There is no sheer number and immigration is not crippling the economy

ah right all those people coming here jumping the queue on say housing lists.


Are they "buying those houses"


are they entitled to the dole for just coming here ?


Do you not think the Irish government, voted by the Irish people do not have sort sort of responsibility to look after their own people, you know the actual people who voted them in.


Why should a person on the housing list for years have to see those come here and jump the queue ?
how is that fair.


enlighten me

TomTomTim

Tell me how wrote: »

Just take it as a sign of progress that the narrative has shifted to acknowledging that there are perfectly functioning multicultural societies.

For a supposed man of science, you're not very logical. Even if there is a few, there is many more that go against said pattern. Do you suggest that we should shape our society based on outliers or averages?

breezy1985

jmayo wrote: »

Falsehood No.1
Ah stop trying to conflate real legal immigrants and the chancers that show up claiming asylum.
The thousands that have shown up illegally, having not claimed asylum in the first safe country they have visited, but rather the light soft touch Irish state where No really means the legal professional trough suckers, professional whiner NGOs, the social media thanks hoors, and the Quislings will fight for them to remain, even after they have served prison for rape.

No one, bar the real racists, are complaining about Pavel the plumber from Poland, Raj the programmer from India, Reyna the nurse from the Philippines, Bill the manager from US or Solomon the engineer from Zimbabwe.
They are here working legally, they applied for visas and they are contributing to our tax revenue.

They didn't arrive with two arms as long as each other outstretched looking for the state to accommodate and feed them.



From my memory we had stopped locking up unmarried mothers by the 80s but there were still huge problems as evidenced by both Granard and Kerry.



Falsehood No.2

Ah bullshyte.

Bar later decades in Britain with dole, Irish emigrants got fook all from any country that they didn't work damn hard for.
Yes we emigrated, a lot of my family did, but they worked hard for anything they had.
They would have got short shrift if they demanded the natives look after them.

I agree chancers who are claiming asylum and not entitled should be sent back and I wish the govt would sort out direct provision to make this happen quicker

The Magdalene laundries closed finally in the mid 90s

And as many Irish scammed as the people coming here now which then like now is a very small percentage and I know from living in London that a decent amount of the drunk beggers round central are Irish who haven't been given short shrift and sent home

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

https://news.sky.com/story/france-attack-man-shot-by-french-police-after-decapitation-in-paris-suburbs-12105885

Zookey123

Deleted User wrote: »

You've just done it yourself.

"To say that most of this hate and anger is coming from the left is laughable."

Care to point where I made such a remark? Or answer my previous request?

Litteraly said word for word in an earlier post which you and your fellow "comrades" clearly agreed with (i'm guessing that's the whole point of the like button).

Deleted User wrote: »

You're deflecting. I showed your own hypocritical statement, and you've just glossed over it. You claim that you're calling out individuals, but I haven't seen you do so, rather you made general statements about the posters on this thread. As I quoted. As I pointed out. As you just glossed over.

I have called out multiple posters individually including you on numerous occasions now. I don't know how I could be more specific I literally opened my last comment with "hey klaz". You haven't shown me anything. All you have done so far is try create a box around me, perhaps have an actual discussion rather than a gotcha statement per reply?

iebamm2580

breezy1985 wrote: »

I agree chancers who are claiming asylum and not entitled should be sent back and I wish the govt would sort out direct provision to make this happen quicker.

Thats all the vast majority here are advocating for. Anybody wanting to outright ban immigration should have a chat to that creature Justin Barrett and **** off.

Zookey123

kildare lad wrote: »

Really , so by taking in loads of people from 3rd world countries and stick them in with Microsoft, intel , pfizer and Google and those companies will be even more successful. You have a very naive view of diversity . What about all the social problems that come with it to, Crime , housing , lack of facilities, alienation,ghettoization, radicalization etc. We're seeing it all over europe now due to left wing politics. Look at Sweden or Germany and see all the social/ crime problems they're having from idiots hell-bent on on pushing a diverse/multicultural society. You take Sweden for example , a prefect liberal society then you get lefties over there , who think that they can improve their society by taking in loads of people from Africa and the middle east. You don't even have to go to Europe , just look at some of the kids of immigrants are behaving in parts of dublin . The only culture them seem to have is English / American gang culture. I think a lot on the Left live in a bubble and ignore all the socio- enconomic problems that come with multiculturalism so they can feel good about themselves making society less white , which seems to be a bad thing nowadays

Interesting I thought it was the big bad left that put nonsensical words into peoples mouths? I have already gone over all these issues and understand more than you think about the complexity that comes with immigration and especially integration. I have seen a lot worse than immigrants in Dublin believe me (do you care since they are white?). We live in a bubble? Why because we disagree with your viewpoint thus we must be either crazy, stupid or lazy right? No one is making society less white relax.

breezy1985

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

ah right all those people coming here jumping the queue on say housing lists.


Are they "buying those houses"


are they entitled to the dole for just coming here ?


Do you not think the Irish government, voted by the Irish people do not have sort sort of responsibility to look after their own people, you know the actual people who voted them in.


Why should a person on the housing list for years have to see those come here and jump the queue ?
how is that fair.


enlighten me

No one should jump the queue but you responded to a post I made that said immigration is not crippling the economy I didn't mention houses

Justin Credible Darts

breezy1985 wrote: »

No one should jump the queue but you responded to a post I made that said immigration is not crippling the economy I didn't mention houses

so the immigrants are more deserving of those houses ?