What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

Justin Credible Darts

no idea who wibbs is, was not aware of his posts til recently, but logic which he uses, is the enemy of those with an agenda

macpaccrack

Wibbs wrote: »

No, it is a factual statement. I know these seem to hurt your thinking organ but... Anybody and I mean anybody who comes out with the notion that colour doesn't matter when it comes to an easier path into fitting into a society that is of a different colour majority is a damned fool.

No Wibbs. I am not denying that there are racists out there but you believe that because you hold similar views that everyone holds these views but only few are confident enough to say them. Its a common trait in those who hold these sort of views. That if you think a certain way then everyone else must secretly think that way too.

The only reason it is more difficult for people of a different skin complexion to assimilate is because of people like you. You actively contribute to why 'damned fools' treat an Irish black person different to an Irish white person. God knows how many people you've convinced on these very forums over the years with your racist tripe.

Wibbs wrote: »

Hey, since you're all revved up by colour(both vocal racists and vocal anti racists seem strange bedfellows in this obsession) let's look elsewhere. Is the statement "being Catholic in 1970's Ulster was of no bar to assimilating into the majority Ulster culture" correct? No, of course it's not, again only a bloody fool would claim it is. Yet they're the same "race" and colour.

Again because of sectarian idiots not because of some innate tribal quirk. Most people have advanced beyond that. Just like most people don't rape and kill anymore.

Wibbs wrote: »

For the craic go ask any Black French/Dutch/German/American/etc person did their colour make a difference in how their life was lived and get back to me. For all your right on I hate nazis protestations you seem to have bugger all clue how the real world actually works for people of colour.

So because of racist idiots those black French/Dutch/Whatever need to be sent back to Africa? And all immigration should be stopped? But only from those countries of course. As you said earlier you've no problem with a white Dutch person coming here.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep I said that and stand by it. Again I know this hurts the oul brainbox, but the real world isn't colour blind. Hell, you aren't. You're positively obsessed by it.

You didn't say that there are some racists in the world though did you? You said only white people should be in traditionally white countries. It is essentially a neo nazi talking point.

Wibbs wrote: »

Only you and a handful of others seem to find the "real meanings" you've already conjured up in your fevered imaginations because you have no actual debate points to make. This is yet another tactic of the pro side. Claim an unseen mass of people nodding in agreement with you, yet the same mass appears strangely silent and not able to back up the position. Of those who have posted on this thread I can think of only two who tried to in good faith, a welcome change.

Jesus if you were any more transparent and flexible you'd be clingfilm, but less useful.

Race is an outdated concept, so one can't discuss "purity" with a straight face. Difference, whether that be cultural or colour increases divisions within societies. Societies have divisions enough. Multiculturalism adds to them. Hell we've already had the farce over a few French Egyptian revival statues outside a Dublin hotel because they represented slaves(they didn't) wound up by a few uninformed and ignorant shouting heads on twitter. But hey we get exotic people and foods apparently. Do you think Black countries should be majority Black? Asian countries majority Asian?

Oh right Wibbs so black or Asian people are only contributing exotic foods now are they?

Ireland will always be majority white you complete lunatic, calm down. Even Brazil is still majority white. And if Irish woman started having an abundance of mixed babies and Ireland suddenly became majority black so ****ing what? Why does someones skin colour matter so much to you?

Wibbs

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

logic which he uses, is the enemy of those with an agenda

It is J, but too often offering logic to the fervent of any stripe, left, right, in, out, shake it all about, is like offering a pair of stout brogues to a salmon. Oh, I went all Eric Cantana there.

macpaccrack

Deleted User wrote: »

Wibbs is the Ronnie O'Sullivan of Boards. A class apart

Am in awe reading his posts. His knowledge is only surpassed by his articulacy (had to look that one up to verify it's an actual word :P).

The calibre of individual that should be presenting "Liveline". Not many legends can, or indeed would be willing to speak for and empathise with the common man/woman as he can.

Hope he doesn't change when he's in charge of the Country :pac: . Perhaps Klaz could be his 'right hand man' so as to keep him level headed, and not corrupted by vested interests

LOL do you want to zip his pants back up there fella?

He writes a load of waffle these days to try to dress up his moronic opinions that non white people can't assimilate into white countries and that we should turf out anyone of colour. It is Stormfront level stuff

dominatinMC

macpaccrack wrote: »

LOL do you want to zip his pants back up there fella?

He writes a load of waffle these days to try to dress up his moronic opinions that non white people can't assimilate into white countries and that we should turf out anyone of colour. It is Stormfront level stuff

I hope the irony of that statement isn't lost on you...fella :pac:

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

Except, that those mediums don't do much to educate/inform people of other cultures. You get to see a shallow surface of the culture, and typically, unless someone has a huge interest already in that foreign culture, they're going to forget anything they've seen within three hours of watching the movie, documentary, etc.

As for travel, most Irish travel within Europe, or other western nations, such as Australia or America. Very few, in comparison to the overall population, are heading off to explore the hinterlands of Zimbabwe. Which bears out with most Westerners, who might take a year in a single non-western region, but there's little actual exploration of other cultures in their natural habitat.

I love the approach posters take on multiculturalism. They'll include all the European cultures as sign of integration and multiculturalism, and calmly ignore that there is little actual exposure to non-western cultures, beyond the most shallow of experiences. Even with Europeans, how many Irish people will have spent time inhaling Austrian culture, being able to tell the distinct differences between German, or Swiss cultural habits which might be similar, but not actually the same.

There is such a shallow take on culture, as a way to promote multiculturalism exists. Unless you're simply talking about the most shallow expressions of culture, or the presence of foreign people (as a representation that the culture exists), there's little in the way of integration or even encouragement to share other cultures.

I don't get this idea that multiculturalism is happening, and successfully too.. The only sign of that is having foreigners here... don't you see the weakness of the multiculturalism debate?

To what extent has multiculturalism succeeded, when it involves those of non-western origins?

This is more of the 'I'm not talking about that type of muticulturalism not working, I'm talking about this type of multiculturalism not working'.

The extent or not multiculturalism works is not limited, as you seem to imply a deep and engaged understanding and integration of culture sustaining all of the extreme examples of both sides.
It is people of disparate cultures, coming together to live in a society and to share and expand elements of both cultures, in different ways.

Many Irish people don't engage in Irish culture in the way it seems is the benchmark for people to require other people doing so, and irish people engaging in theirs to the same extreme as evidence that multiculturalism works.

emo72

Imagine having the temerity to post on men's forums!

Wibbs

macpaccrack wrote: »

No Wibbs. I am not denying that there are racists out there but you believe that because you hold similar views that everyone holds these views but only few are confident enough to say them. Its a common trait in those who hold these sort of views. That if you think a certain way then everyone else must secretly think that way too.

The only reason it is more difficult for people of a different skin complexion to assimilate is because of people like you. You actively contribute to why 'damned fools' treat an Irish black person different to an Irish white person. God knows how many people you've convinced on these very forums over the years with your racist tripe.

Ahhh the "so I hear you're a racist now father" defence. Yeah you've got nada and it's plain to see. And now I'm a rallying point for nazis too. And I don't even own a brown shirt.

Facts show that racism is a major issue, or again have you missed the last few decades of people of colour's lives in the "melting pots" of the world. Yeah, they're the ones being melted. You should actually talk with a few. And listen.

Again because of sectarian idiots not because of some innate tribal quirk. Most people have advanced beyond that. Just like most people don't rape and kill anymore.

I hate to break it to you, but most people didn't rape or kill before. Outside of war they were anomalies for most of human history

So because of racist idiots those black French/Dutch/Whatever need to be sent back to Africa? And all immigration should be stopped? But only from those countries of course. As you said earlier you've no problem with a white Dutch person coming here.

Nope, I said a White Dutch person would find it easier to assimilate here.

You didn't say that there are some racists in the world though did you? You said only white people should be in traditionally white countries. It is essentially a neo nazi talking point.

Avoiding my points like the plague. I see a pattern here.

Oh right Wibbs so black or Asian people are only contributing exotic foods now are they?

Well, when it has been asked what does diversity do for a society that seemed to be the main positive. I didn't say it.

Ireland will always be majority white you complete lunatic, calm down.

Now I'm a loony as well. Where's that samaritans number... If I were any calmer I'd be asleep, you seem to the one more foaming at the mouth.

Even Brazil is still majority white. And if Irish woman started having an abundance of mixed babies and Ireland suddenly became majority black so ****ing what? Why does someones skin colour matter so much to you?

Why does it matter so much to you is the better question.

Hamachi

Wibbs wrote: »

So let's recap: In plain English and in quotable posts I'm apparently recently mentally damaged in some way in need of the Samaritans, a misogynistic woman hater, a lunatic, radicalised by PUA, and an alt right nazi stormfront racist convincing people to join me by spreading racism across Boards.ie. That sum it up? And yet if a called another poster a retard I'd get a ban... Answers to the usual email address.

The sheer nastiness of that individual’s posting style made for extremely uncomfortable reading. Unsubstantiated personal attacks like that are way beyond the pale.

One common theme that is present throughout this thread and in wider discourse, is the level of vitriol directed toward anybody who dares question the approved narrative around multiculturalism.

The irony is that many of the pro-multiculturalists often proclaim their enlightenment and humanitarianism, whilst simultaneously launching the most vile and spiteful attacks on anybody who dares to disagree with them. The only consolation is that this despicable behavior is totally transparent to anybody reading this thread.

* This post is merely this poster's opinion, and partly idle speculation plus tongue in cheek type conjecture

macparrack has a similar posting style to another poster who's not around much these days - only the latter's protégé has better spelling.

The other poster (who must be on holidays currently) and macparrack must have attended the same Open University course and been radicalized into
some sort of a completely bonkers delusion of the Utopian type.

I reckon that macparrack is only an intern in that NGO that the other poster (unfair to mention him so I won't)
is employed in.

The holidays in whatever diversity/inclusion NGO are certainly great, so I can see the appeal This NGO must have some sort of affiliation with Boards, as its members are allowed to misrepresent and namecall like Billyoh. I think even allowing for that that macparrack is surely on thin ice - no harm though as he can always re-reg.



* I reckon I'm in the ballpark though :P

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

This is more of the 'I'm not talking about that type of muticulturalism not working, I'm talking about this type of multiculturalism not working'.

Except (I really need to stop starting a sentence this way), it was you that introduced the difference because you claimed that multiculturalism succeeded, but only related it to Western cultures, as the example of such (when the vast majority of objections relate to non-westerner migration).

But sure, go ahead and show to me where multiculturalism has succeeded beyond the most shallow of expressions, and where integration has occurred of non-westerners in a western nation. Not individuals separated from the whole, but actual groups/communities/decent populations.

The extent or not multiculturalism works is not limited, as you seem to imply a deep and engaged understanding and integration of culture sustaining all of the extreme examples of both sides.

Is that a compliment?

It is people of disparate cultures, coming together to live in a society and to share and expand elements of both cultures, in different ways.

Ok. Where has this happened (without friction/conflict and division happening)? Can you be more specific as to these different ways?

Many Irish people don't engage in Irish culture in the way it seems is the benchmark for people to require other people doing so, and irish people engaging in theirs to the same extreme as evidence that multiculturalism works.

Irish people don't need to engage in Irish culture. They're Irish, there's no need for proof. Just as Chinese people don't need to engage in Chinese culture.. because they're Chinese.

Europeans (and Irish) engage in "western cultural norms". A combination of cultural influences that have merged through centuries of interaction, and integration... A common bond through the authority of the RCC, the sharing of cultures by marriage of Imperial houses, etc. It's not multiculturalism because there's no expectation of acceptance of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of migrants of that particular culture, to be accepted the same as natural citizens.

And this is why there is a difference in "multiculturalism(s)". Because you want to take culture that has historical common bonds (European/Western), and equate it with modern multiculturalism that includes cultures with zero common bonds (African, M.Eastern, etc).

For me, there is only one multiculturalism as a phrase. The mixing of cultures within Europeans, Americans, Australians, isn't multiculturalism, because we're a Western bloc, which has been intermingling and integrating, for the most part, without friction for the last 70 years. Now, compare that with non-western groups... and that's what modern multiculturalism involves.

Justin Credible Darts

macpaccrack wrote: »

LOL do you want to zip his pants back up there fella?

He writes a load of waffle these days to try to dress up his moronic opinions that non white people can't assimilate into white countries and that we should turf out anyone of colour. It is Stormfront level stuff

zip his pants back up fella....sounds very homophobic.



Citing stormfront is a sneaky way to imply racism as well.


and you have no problem calling people morons.


Were that I making a post like that the mods would be all over me,

jmreire

Hamachi wrote: »

The sheer nastiness of that individual’s posting style made for extremely uncomfortable reading. Unsubstantiated personal attacks like that are way beyond the pale.

One common theme that is present throughout this thread and in wider discourse, is the level of vitriol directed toward anybody who dares question the approved narrative around multiculturalism.

The irony is that many of the pro-multiculturalists often proclaim their enlightenment and humanitarianism, whilst simultaneously launching the most vile and spiteful attacks on anybody who dares to disagree with them. The only consolation is that this despicable behavior is totally transparent to anybody reading this thread.

Yes, but they share a common thread, in they will never tell what Country's that they lived in to get such multicultural experience in. Maccrackpack being the latest "Expert" on foreign cultures..

Wibbs

Hamachi wrote: »

The irony is that many of the pro-multiculturalists often proclaim their enlightenment and humanitarianism, whilst simultaneously launching the most vile and spiteful attacks on anybody who dares to disagree with them.

+1 H. Faiths must be defended!! The further irony is that they and the "fascists" they oppose are two cheeks of the same unquestioning flaccid arse, farting in discordant unison, leaving a bad smell for the rest of us.

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

* This post is merely this poster's opinion, and partly idle speculation plus tongue in cheek type conjecture

macparrack has a similar posting style to another poster who's not around much these days - only the latter's protégé has better spelling.

The other poster (who must be on holidays currently) and macparrack must have attended the same Open University course and been radicalized into
some sort of a completely bonkers delusion of the Utopian type.

I reckon that macparrack is only an intern in that NGO that the other poster (unfair to mention him so I won't)
is employed in.

The holidays in whatever diversity/inclusion NGO are certainly great, so I can see the appeal This NGO must have some sort of affiliation with Boards, as its members are allowed to misrepresent and namecall like Billyoh. I think even allowing for that that macparrack is surely on thin ice - no harm though as he can always re-reg.



* I reckon I'm in the ballpark though :P

there must be some rota., as soon as one disappears or gets threadbanned, the other turns up.


I am sure its just a coincidence though

enricoh

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I dont care if they are black white or blue, I dont think we should be taking in vast numbers of people crippling the economy.

Everyone should be vetted, anyone with a criminal record, not allowed enter .
Anyone that breaks the law, be deported home after their sentence.

Why should people come here, jump housing lists, and cripple the system I pay in to ?

The Irish government have a duty and responsibility to look after their own people first, the same people who put them in power.

Now now some are very entrepreneurial and adept at making money. This fella pulled in 80k cash and had total costs of e500 - now that's real money!

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/longford/longford-man-handed-suspended-jail-sentence-role-money-mule-scam/

Cordell

He was arrested in November 2016 and told Gardai that he believed the money was from the sale of land in Nigeria and he was helping a third party, who claimed not to have a bank account, access the money through his account.

Typical doctor/engineer, thick and gullible.

jmreire

enricoh wrote: »

Now now some are very entrepreneurial and adept at making money. This fella pulled in 80k cash and had total costs of e500 - now that's real money!

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/local/longford/longford-man-handed-suspended-jail-sentence-role-money-mule-scam/

I guess that is what is meant by "Cultural enrichment"......:cool::cool::cool:

Justin Credible Darts

jmreire wrote: »

I guess that is what is meant by "Cultural enrichment"......:cool::cool::cool:

careful....you dont want to be called a "racist"

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

careful....you dont want to be called a "racist"

Notice how racism/racist has become just another shallow cliché?

Sometimes I wonder if the people who throw it around so much, understand what a "cliché" is and the problems associated with using them...

jmreire

Deleted User wrote: »

Notice how racism/racist has become just another shallow cliché?

Sometimes I wonder if the people who throw it around so much, understand what a "cliché" is and the problems associated with using them...

I'd say myself that "cliche" is not the only thing they have difficulty with......;)

Justin Credible Darts

Deleted User wrote: »

Notice how racism/racist has become just another shallow cliché?

Sometimes I wonder if the people who throw it around so much, understand what a "cliché" is and the problems associated with using them...

I was called a racist so often..I got use to it. I never even reported it until once I replied the person who called me it was a fool, and i got a ban.


from that point on I though sod it, two can play that game, so will report any personal insult, to see if its a level playing field,


In fact I urge every person called a racist by the so called "enlightened brigade" to report it and lets see how equal the moderating is.


Those bandying about terms like racist on a whim, need to be pulled up on their behavior

Justin Credible Darts

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

I was called a racist so often..I got use to it. I never even reported it until once I replied the person who called me it was a fool, and i got a ban.

from that point on I though sod it, two can play that game, so will report any personal insult, to see if its a level playing field,

In fact I urge every person called a racist by the so called "enlightened brigade" to report it and lets see how equal the moderating is.

Those bandying about terms like racist on a whim, need to be pulled up on their behavior

From my own experience, the mod team are... stretched thin with all the crap on the CA forums, so I'd be a little patient with them about moderating.

All the same, I agree with you about reporting and responding to these virtue signalling posters. The posters who shout racism at every opportunity should be taken to account for their behavior... it's only by standing up to this intolerance, that we can make it unacceptable. If people simply accept it, then it'll continue unchecked... as it has done previously.

So.. call them out on it, although without getting into the mud/**** with them.

excludedbin

Deleted User wrote: »

Notice how racism/racist has become just another shallow cliché?

Notice how right wingers are still pushing this line? It's been decades now, lads, you're not fooling anyone but the gullible and the idiotic.

dominatinMC

excludedbin wrote: »

Notice how right wingers are still pushing this line? It's been decades now, lads, you're not fooling anyone but the gullible and the idiotic.

There's the first box checked anyway :D

Justin Credible Darts

dominatinMC wrote: »

There's the first box checked anyway :D

notice how they love to label people idiots or gullible if they have the audacity to dare disagree with them.
Then think they are enlighten

_Kaiser_

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

notice how they love to label people idiots or gullible if they have the audacity to dare disagree with them.
Then think they are enlighten

It's generally those who claim to be liberal, tolerant and enlightened who are in fact the most close-minded, aggressive, and dismissive of the lot.

Justin Credible Darts

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's generally those who claim to be liberal, tolerant and enlightened who are in fact the most close-minded, aggressive, and dismissive of the lot.

That is exactly my point.
if you have the cheek to question them, you are told you are wrong, or you are not educated or stupid. How dare you come to your own opinion and not agree with them.


you will soon find you are subjected to name calling, your intelligence questioned, slurs are made, and certain implications that are brought up , but somehow they are the ones that are moral and decent.


The irony is lost on some.

Wibbs

excludedbin wrote: »

Notice how right wingers are still pushing this line? It's been decades now, lads, you're not fooling anyone but the gullible and the idiotic.

So yet again no actual points on the pro side of multiculturalism? Cool. Never mind the simplistic Left/Right nonsense. In my case I'd be a near communist to many American political types(and a few who buy into the Im all right jack libertarian bollocks on here), someone who believes in social welfare, free education and health, equal rights and have voted the "right on" way in every single referendum, all the way back to my first referendum as a voter on divorce which didn't pass, yet apparently I'm right wing just because I question the wisdom of the current model of multiculturalism and its false advertising from on high about how great it is, without actually spelling out what makes it great of course, while completely washing over the clear negatives experienced by other nations who have tried it?

And yes EB the shallow cliche of all the "isms" from whatever side of the fence they come from have lost much of their sting because of lazy repetition instead of debate in good faith and ever divisive retreats into opinion safe spaces and echo chambers. One of the major reasons the old style forums are a pale shadow of their former pasts is because of this and people wanting to just hang around with their unquestioning fellows of common ground. That goes equally for the Left/Right types wherever you find them. Hell it can even apply to hobbies and interests.

I wouldn't mind if it were just the older types doing this as older types tend to like common ground that doesn't unduly irritate their long held and safe beliefs with loud noises, but it's increasingly common among the young too and that's worrying, because it's the young who usually ask the knotty questions to irritate the old and staid and end up changing things. Then again much of this has come from the old towards the young in places like university campuses and spread from there across social media etc.

TomTomTim

Justin Credible Darts wrote: »

That is exactly my point.
if you have the cheek to question them, you are told you are wrong, or you are not educated or stupid. How dare you come to your own opinion and not agree with them.


you will soon find you are subjected to name calling, your intelligence questioned, slurs are made, and certain implications that are brought up , but somehow they are the ones that are moral and decent.


The irony is lost on some.

Self-awareness has nearly always been considered a trait of intelligence. Yet those progressive minded types, who think themselves the smartest of us all, seem to be completely bereft of any self-awareness.